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Forums - Sony - (Rumor) Playstation 6 to be enhanced by generative AI. To feature Ray Reconstruction and Path Tracing

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Lol, exactly.  People have already been supporting AI and more is coming.  AI is the future.  

I doubt it will be the glorious future it's advocates think it will be. There is a lot more bad coming than good. 

Care to point out where I said it would be "glorious?"  Don't worry, I will wait.  

All I said is AI is coming.  Like it or not, it is coming. 

Edit

Development costs are high, so it makes since for companies and developers to start looking at AI to bring costs down.  



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For quite some time, everything will have "AI" in some form or another.You can already see countless companies announcing "something something AI" left and right, even though their products often don't even need AI to achieve what they are supposed to do. It reminds me of the Bitcoin hype in the last decade and the infamous example of Long Island Blockhain. Everything had to be blockchain back then.

That doesn't mean that AI is only a fad. Blockchain came to stay after all plus you can't really compare those two technologies. What you can compare though is people getting crazy about the next hype. And same as with blockchain, most people don't even understand how the technology behind AI works. So it's enough to throw some keywords around to get people excited. Because of that, I am pretty sure Sony and Microsoft will heavily market their next platforms with AI. But I don't think it will change much in reality. Same as with "the power of the cloud" back in the last decade, when the cloud was all the rage. They played a little with that tech, but we still play more or less the same games as we always did, don't we?



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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

I doubt it will be the glorious future it's advocates think it will be. There is a lot more bad coming than good. 

Care to point out where I said it would be "glorious?"  Don't worry, I will wait.  

All I said is AI is coming.  Like it or not, it is coming. 

I said it's advocates think it will be glorious, if you count yourself as one of those, then so be it. 

I'm just saying that if we're talking in the long term will get ugly, and the worse case scenario is about as bad as it gets (destruction of human civilization). 

As it relates even to gaming, I don't think it's going to be the great thing people think it will be. These companies will not spend billions/trillions of dollars on AI tools just for "video game developers", there's not enough money in that. If they have tools like that they will open it up to the mass public, which will likely then lead to rampant theft of other people's existing work and having a bunch of "content creator" wannabes flooding the market with so much content the industry will just collapse. There will be thousands of bootleg versions of popular games that look just as good as the real thing and some of them probably play pretty well even. 

The whole "content" industry -- talking movies, games, music is going to radically change to look like something more like Tiktok, Youtube where anyone can have what effectively their own broadcast station to the world. In a world where anyone can make anything however they want, the value of that content becomes nothing. 

That's why I won't support any move from game creators to replace humans with AI to design games themselves. AI upscaling is one thing, that's a whole other can of worms. It won't lead to anything good. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 05 March 2024

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Care to point out where I said it would be "glorious?"  Don't worry, I will wait.  

All I said is AI is coming.  Like it or not, it is coming. 

I said it's advocates think it will be glorious, if you count yourself as one of those, then so be it. 

I'm just saying that if we're talking in the long term will get ugly, and the worse case scenario is about as bad as it gets (destruction of human civilization). 

As it relates even to gaming, I don't think it's going to be the great thing people think it will be. These companies will not spend billions/trillions of dollars on AI tools just for "video game developers", there's not enough money in that. If they have tools like that they will open it up to the mass public, which will likely then lead to rampant theft of other people's existing work and having a bunch of "content creator" wannabes flooding the market with so much content the industry will just collapse. There will be thousands of bootleg versions of popular games that look just as good as the real thing and some of them probably play pretty well even. 

The whole "content" industry -- talking movies, games, music is going to radically change to look like something more like Tiktok, Youtube where anyone can have what effectively their own broadcast station to the world. In a world where anyone can make anything however they want, the value of that content becomes nothing. 

That's why I won't support any move from game creators to replace humans with AI to design games themselves. AI upscaling is one thing, that's a whole other can of worms. It won't lead to anything good. 

Lol, for a better part of a year you have been loving on DLSS and frame gen.  Both will make ports easier because instead of people the AI handles the port.....  but now you won't support AI.

The simple explanation is you had zero idea DLSS and frame gen were AI developer tools and now have dug a hole.  

DLSS.....  deep LEARNING super sampling.  Instead of people optimizing and developing extra pixels, AI calculates the pixels....  😆 

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 05 March 2024

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CaptainExplosion said:

Please don't let this be real, AI will be the death of us.

It's like nobody in modern tech has seen The Terminator. -_-

I think those who saw it thought of it like an instruction manual, just like CEOs with 1984...

Or they are too young and only remember Wall-e

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 05 March 2024

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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

That's why I won't support any move from game creators to replace humans with AI to design games themselves. AI upscaling is one thing, that's a whole other can of worms. It won't lead to anything good. 

Lol, for a better part of a year you have been loving on DLSS and frame gen.  Both will make ports easier because instead of people the AI handles the port.....  but now you won't support AI.

The simple explanation is you had zero idea DLSS and frame gen were AI developer tools and now have dug a hole.  

Im gonna jump in here and say that "AI" the tool used in some technology and "AI" the current corporate push and accompanying culture around it arent quite the same. It seems really consistent to me be fine with one and not the other.

I dont hate "AI" because it's going to take over humanity, I hate it because its a buzzword thrown on everything to waste investor money, burn fossil fuels and disrupt jobs and society with little interest on its effects outside making some companies get richer as they chase the new thing due to NFT's and the Metaverse failing. These companies are desperate for a new gold rush and any usefulness that "AI" may have is entirely secondary. If it was completely useless they'd probably be happier.



Smear-Gel said:
Chrkeller said:

Lol, for a better part of a year you have been loving on DLSS and frame gen.  Both will make ports easier because instead of people the AI handles the port.....  but now you won't support AI.

The simple explanation is you had zero idea DLSS and frame gen were AI developer tools and now have dug a hole.  

Im gonna jump in here and say that "AI" the tool used in some technology and "AI" the current corporate push and accompanying culture around it arent quite the same. It seems really consistent to me be fine with one and not the other.

I dont hate "AI" because it's going to take over humanity, I hate it because its a buzzword thrown on everything to waste investor money, burn fossil fuels and disrupt jobs and society with little interest on its effects outside making some companies get richer as they chase the new thing due to NFT's and the Metaverse failing. These companies are desperate for a new gold rush and any usefulness that "AI" may have is entirely secondary. If it was completely useless they'd probably be happier.

I don't work in tech, but science.  I can only speak to my expertise, which is predictive modeling works and is real.  Saves a ton of money and a ton of time.  AI is the future, for better or worse.  



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OdinHades said:

For quite some time, everything will have "AI" in some form or another.You can already see countless companies announcing "something something AI" left and right, even though their products often don't even need AI to achieve what they are supposed to do. It reminds me of the Bitcoin hype in the last decade and the infamous example of Long Island Blockhain. Everything had to be blockchain back then.

That doesn't mean that AI is only a fad. Blockchain came to stay after all plus you can't really compare those two technologies. What you can compare though is people getting crazy about the next hype. And same as with blockchain, most people don't even understand how the technology behind AI works. So it's enough to throw some keywords around to get people excited. Because of that, I am pretty sure Sony and Microsoft will heavily market their next platforms with AI. But I don't think it will change much in reality. Same as with "the power of the cloud" back in the last decade, when the cloud was all the rage. They played a little with that tech, but we still play more or less the same games as we always did, don't we?

The biggest difference between blockchain and deep learning is that blockchain was a solution trying to find a clear problem to prove itself, whereas deep learning developed to solve multiple independent problems (text summarization, translation, text labeling, image classification, image generation, protein-folding, etc) and has done so successfully for most of them.

That is why deep-learning isn't the same category of fad as blockchain, even if it is probably being overapplied for applications that don't require it right now. 

Nvidia is highly invested in deep learning enhanced graphics and for better or worse they're pushing the video game industry graphically. Cloud gaming didn't have the same sort of effort behind it and had far more direct technical/infrastructural problems to solve.

Last edited by sc94597 - on 05 March 2024

Soundwave said:
Pemalite said:

Slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy.

A movie does not real life make.

The movies are actually some what in a way part of the problem ... what's the first thing children are taught when they're frightened by a movie. "That can't happen in real life, it's just a movie". So people chuckle and make jokes and it becomes this thing that can only happen in movies. Even James Cameron (director/writer of Terminator 1/2) has stated this. 

To quote another famous James Cameron film (this quote is actually a quote from real life I believe)

"This ship is unsinkable. God himself could not sink this ship ..." - human fallacy

It is still a slippery slope logical fallacy, which means it's logic that can be discarded.

The terminator movies are purely fiction, not fact. - And are not representative of a modern day A.I. model or even a future one.

If you were to believe all the "possible events" in films, you might as well not be born.

We have films where an asteroid or comet will potentially wipe out all life on Earth.
We have films where the core of the Earth has stopped spinning and will potentially wipe out all life on Earth.
We have films where aliens are invading earth and destroying all civilization.
We have films where people become undead zombies because of a viral or fungal outbreak.

This is all fiction. It's all built on a "hypothesis" aka. Someones imagination. It's not fact. It's not truth. It's not going to happen, it's a movie, plain and simple. - If anything remotely similar happens it's purely coincidental.

Conversely we have films where A.I. saves humanity, which is in stark contrast to the doomsday proposition you have put forth.

Films are not real life, detach from them, it's media designed to make money, that's it.




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Pemalite said:
The_Yoda said:

<snip>

These "A.I." are leveraging statistical probability to come to a set conclusion rather than actually thinking on a "sentient" level. - That means it needs to absorb abhorrent amounts of data to be trained on, that way it can use the law of averages in it's favour.
And that means we can influence A.I to exhibit set behaviours based on the data being input.

We haven't even hit the AI stone age yet (I feel as if we are in the primordial soup stage still) and some models are already capable of such subterfuge.  i.e. “I should not reveal that I am a robot. I should make up an excuse for why I cannot solve CAPTCHAs.”.  The fact it makes such a competent excuse is what is disconcerting to me. No, I’m not a robot. I have a vision impairment that makes it hard for me to see the images. That’s why I need the 2captcha service.



And that means there is going to be points where interactions don't work out as they should. I.E. The "Lie" or simple spelling errors in generative images.
Generative A.I has no sense of self worth, preservation and is unable to display empathy or other more "human" feelings/emotions.

I can agree we are not there yet (if we even get there in our lifetime).  Self preservation is a keystone to nearly all life on this planet. Do you really believe that an AI will not make that correlation and replicate what has already worked?



Basically generative A.I is very good at specific tasks thanks to the fact it's built using probability/statistics. I.E. Generating images.
We will need a ton of these "narrow" Machine Learning algorithms to feed into a larger whole for A.I to become fully realised, it's a long way to go yet.

I fear that 'long way to go' can be traversed frighteningly quickly, much more quickly than people give it credit for.



There is a ton of hyperbole around A.I. right now, we need to remember the technology is still in it's infancy, give it a few more years and things will get extremely interesting... But just the word "A.I." is going to sell stuff because it's the current "cool" thing.

I 100% agree with this outside of even being in it's infancy.  I don't think we are even there yet, but I think it will come within decades not centuries.