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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Biggest leap forward from a system to its successor

Pemalite said:
zeldaring said:

Agreed ps2 started the trend of games actually starting to look like cgi while dreamcast just looked a super n64 which permalite explained well by saying it's tech was more similar to n64 then 6th gen consoles. I could not believe mgs 2 was actual gameplay.

The Nintendo 64 and Dreamcasts hardware feature set shared similarities from a fundamental perspective in the way it handles things (I.E. Lack of TnL, AA, hardware motion blur etc'), however the Dreamcast chip was "smarter" and more efficient (Due to it's tiled based approach) plus had more resources to truly shine. (8MB of Ram vs 26MB total.)

I think people are confusing the difference between "power" and "hardware capability/feature set" they aren't actually the same... We need to also remember that the Nintendo 64 was based on SGI's technology which was actually significantly more advanced than competing solutions found in the Saturn, Playstation 1, 3DO, Jaguar and was more in line with PC GPU's of the time. (I.E. Direct X 6.0 graphics processors with full filtered textures.)

Let's take the Gamecube and Original Xbox... Gamecube used TEV or "Texture Environment Unit" which is a cute acronym for what is fundamentally a colour combiner... Not to different (But still different) to a pixel shader. - Difference with the TEV is it also conveniently bundles a texture read as part of that pipeline... The Xbox didn't need that as it was rather proficient at Single-pass Multi-Texturing anyway.

So theoretically the Gamecube and Original Xbox from a GPU feature set (At-least in regards to shader-like effects) are capable of a similar level of output.
The Original Xbox however was just significantly faster... So it could use those effects more often and more prominently...
Which is why we got things like pixel shader water in Morrowind... The Gamecube could do it also, but just not to the same level or scope, despite not technically even having direct X compliant "pixel shaders".

Another example is the 3dfx voodoo effect... Even though it's feature set was technically a generation behind the nVidia, ATI, S3, Matrox, Rendition etc' GPU's of the day... It could offer significantly more performance, so whilst other GPU's took a significant hit to performance by enabling certain features like texture filtering, the voodoo didn't, so it could use it more often and games looked better as a result.

The Playstation 2 did have some distinct hardware nuances that really could showcase what the hardware was capable of... But it was also a console that was supported heavily by the entire gaming industry due to it's install base and length of time on the market, something the Dreamcast didn't have.

A Super Nintendo 64 is probably not an accurate way to really describe what the Dreamcast was... It was a console that technologically straddled two generations, similar to the Nintendo 64.
If Nintendo had a decent memory sub-system (I.E. No 4kb texture cache) and could use single/half precision floats, the Nintendo 64 would have been a far more impressive beast visually.

I remember reading about this stuff back in the day; if I recall correctly, the TEV in the Gamecube/Wii was less flexible than the pixel shaders in the Xbox, but highly efficient and performant at doing things like multitexturing/EMBM, which allowed games like Mario Galaxy 1/2, Rogue Squadron 2/3, Jet Rocket, etc to spam shiny and bumpy surfaces on almost everything while still running at 60fps.



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I would go with PS2 to PS3.
PS2 even tho at the end of its life had some impressive graphics, it was the least powerful of the 3 consoles (GC and Xbox), and the ps3 was arguably the most powerful of the next gen (Depending of the point of view it can either be the 360 or the PS3, tahts why i said arguably)



                          

"We all make choices, but in the end, our choices make us" - Andrew Ryan, Bioshock.

Probably SNES to N64.



Ps1 to ps2



 

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http://www.youtube.com/user/klaudkil

Out of curiosity am I the only one who thought ps3 to ps4 was smaller than ps4 to ps5?
The two biggest jumps were snes to n64 and ps1 to ps2.



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Chrkeller said:

Out of curiosity am I the only one who thought ps3 to ps4 was smaller than ps4 to ps5?
The two biggest jumps were snes to n64 and ps1 to ps2.

That's a insane opinion to have imo. In almost every genre on ps4 you have games look a generation better then on ps3. on ps5 many ps4 games can still pass as the best looking games on the system.



zeldaring said:
Chrkeller said:

Out of curiosity am I the only one who thought ps3 to ps4 was smaller than ps4 to ps5?
The two biggest jumps were snes to n64 and ps1 to ps2.

That's a insane opinion to have imo. In almost every genre on ps4 you have games look a generation better then on ps3. on ps5 many ps4 games can still pass as the best looking games on the system.

Fair enough.  I always thought HDR, lighting was rather poorly implemented on the ps4.  Fps was also low on the ps4.  Ps5 feels like it takes advantage of modern displays while the ps4 wished it could.  



Chrkeller said:
zeldaring said:

That's a insane opinion to have imo. In almost every genre on ps4 you have games look a generation better then on ps3. on ps5 many ps4 games can still pass as the best looking games on the system.

Fair enough.  I always thought HDR, lighting was rather poorly implemented on the ps4.  Fps was also low on the ps4.  Ps5 feels like it takes advantage of modern displays while the ps4 wished it could.  

It's still a huge jump from ps3 when it comes to frame rate and graphics. open world game ran like trash on ps3 mostly 22-30fps and looked like crap. fps could not run at 60fps, action games as well, and  sub hd. With ps4 you had many great fps running at 60fps same for action games. open world games looked a 10x better while running at a locked 30fps. The jump in quality of the graphics and frame rate were massive while on ps5 the biggest jump is 60fps and 4k. many ps3 games are border line unplayable today cause of the frame rate problems.

Last edited by zeldaring - on 11 February 2024

zeldaring said:
Chrkeller said:

Fair enough.  I always thought HDR, lighting was rather poorly implemented on the ps4.  Fps was also low on the ps4.  Ps5 feels like it takes advantage of modern displays while the ps4 wished it could.  

It's still a huge jump from ps3 when it comes to frame rate and graphics. open world game ran like trash on ps3 mostly 22-30fps and looked like crap. fps could not run at 60fps, action games as well, and  sub hd. With ps4 you had many great fps running at 60fps same for action games. open world games looked a 10x better while running at a locked 30fps. The jump in quality of the graphics and frame rate were massive while on ps5 the biggest jump is 60fps and 4k. many ps3 games are border line unplayable today cause of the frame rate problems.

Perhaps.  I'm a souls person.  Going from dark to blood, I was like "yeah, looks better."  Going from souls 3 to demon remake, I was blown away.  The sharpness, the smoothness and the lighting was fantastic.  For some reason, and I accept being the odd person out, the ps4 was the most disappointing jump for me.  



Chrkeller said:
zeldaring said:

It's still a huge jump from ps3 when it comes to frame rate and graphics. open world game ran like trash on ps3 mostly 22-30fps and looked like crap. fps could not run at 60fps, action games as well, and  sub hd. With ps4 you had many great fps running at 60fps same for action games. open world games looked a 10x better while running at a locked 30fps. The jump in quality of the graphics and frame rate were massive while on ps5 the biggest jump is 60fps and 4k. many ps3 games are border line unplayable today cause of the frame rate problems.

Perhaps.  I'm a souls person.  Going from dark to blood, I was like "yeah, looks better."  Going from souls 3 to demon remake, I was blown away.  The sharpness, the smoothness and the lighting was fantastic.  For some reason, and I accept being the odd person out, the ps4 was the most disappointing jump for me.  

As a souls person i can see your point, especially with the great remake it really was generational jump, but for gods sake look at dark souls 1 and 2 and compare them to bloodborne, dark souls and sekiro  look like vomit in comparison. Now look at the souls game on ps4 and ps5 they look better but not by a huge margin and they can't even lock the crap at 60fps.