I owned all systems that generation and while Xbox and GameCube  were more powerful ps2 could still hang with them imo. The dreamcast could not, like I said watch some ps2 mgs 2 or gt3 gameplay and it really blows dreamcast out of the water especially since those effects and poly models were seen for thr first time with ps2.

I own PS2/Xbox/Gamecube too, and have seen plenty of Dreamcast.

DC could hang with PS2 in the same way that PS2 could hang with the Xbox and Gamecube. There were clear differences in lighting technology between the four, but they're all in the same generational area in terms of overall graphical capability, much like the Megadrive is in the same ballpark as the SNES despite being behind in features.

I just wanna add I was a huge dreamcast fan that always defended thr graphics cause my friends would always be saying ps2 would blow it away, but when I saw mgs2 and gt3 I honestly could not believe what I was seeing, it blew my mind similar to the first time seeing mario 64, dreamcast never made me feel that way.

Yeah MGS2 and GT3 are serious contenders for "biggest generational jumps of all time". I had a Dreamcast before the PS2 and played around 30 games on it, GT3 was so far ahead of GT2 visually, that it could be mistaken for a generational jump over Dreamcast's "Sega GT" (which I completed in like one sit lol).

MGS2 demo was just unbelievable.

Agreed ps2 started the trend of games actually starting to look like cgi while dreamcast just looked a super n64 which permalite explained well by saying it's tech was more similar to n64 then 6th gen consoles. I could not believe mgs 2 was actual gameplay.

Dreamcast was a huge leap in graphics over the N64. They're not in the same ballpark.

Of course it was but like permalite said it's feature set was more similar to n64. That's why I called it a super n64 while ps2 games at the time started making games look like cgi like seeing gt3 and mgs2 I actually did not believe that was real gameplay at the time, what was your experience seeing mgs 2 trailer for the first time?

If we are going to divide it up that way though, then wouldn't the original Xbox would be closer to PS3/360 than to the PS2 thanks to its pixel shaders?

Honestly, I never saw that trailer until many years later. Didn't watch much TV as a kid and didn't get the internet at home til 2006.

I think the first PS2 game I saw was Gran Turismo 3, but by then I already owned an Xbox and had seen stuff like Rogue Squadron II and Starfox Adventures for Gamecube.

Then it's very difficult to explain the jump we saw to you. I had a Xbox as well and it never blew me the way mgs 2 and gt3 did. The thing about the ps2 is the first time games start looking like cgi for that time so it's difficult to explain if you weren't online or didn't have a dreamcast and ps2 to compare at that time, I had both. Also back then we played on SD tvs so playstation 2 short comings were much less noticeable, kind like today when you play genesis games they look sharper then super nes but back then on SD TV you could not notice.

That's fair; I was talking more in terms of the graphics technology but such leaps are of course subjective in how we see them, so if that's your experience I didn't mean to imply it's wrong.