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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Biggest leap forward from a system to its successor

Pemalite said:

The Nintendo 64 wasn't really Ram limited.
With the expansion pack you could have 8MB... And the system can theoretically support around 12-16MB which is the upper limit from the initialization routines on the system itself... The Nintendo 64 was able to be fairly memory efficient as it can stream data directly from the ROM carts with no load times.

The issue was that stupid 4kb of texture cache... With a unified memory architecture it was a stupid and unnecessary decision.

That Mario 64 demo does use the expansion pack, and a lot of games that did too had access to 2-4 times higher resolution options even if the expansion pack wasn't mandatory. That is kind of huge.

It is my understanding that their esoteric 9-bit Rambus RAM was way faster than the PS1's EDO RAM, but the CPU and GPU would fight over access to it so unified memory wasn't as optimal back then as it would in the X360 days.

Ideally, they probably should have done away with the cache (which is still RAM, mind, SRAM) and included some 4MB of dedicated VRAM. Even without the benefit of hindsight, I don't think developing that kind of solution was out of reach for Silicon Graphics considering the PS1/Saturn opted for this.



 

 

 

 

 

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Azzanation said:

For me it was the SNES to N64. That 3D jump was 1 of a kind.

Followed would have to be the N64 to Gamecube. Seeing games like Luigis Mansion looked like a Pixar Movie.

6th Gen Graphics (especially cutscenes) were the first time I can think of where the graphics looked even somewhat like Toy Story (1995). 

None of the 5th Gen games I can think of match movies like Toy Story, A Bug's Life, and Toy Story 2. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 156 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 48 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Mega Drive to Saturn closely followed by SNES to N64. If Switch is considered a successor to the 3DS, then it wins by a mile.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
UnderwaterFunktown said:

NES to SNES for sure. There are barely any pre-SNES games I consider good.

While the introduction of 3d is ofc technically impressive SNES to N64 was honestly a sidestep imo, on average I'd say the games got worse but a few (OoT and MM) really outshined what had come before. Then the GameCube was another huge step forward where the average quality improved significantly.

The leaps for PlayStation consoles have been more gradual as I see it, but they've never felt insignificant either (perhaps not counting PS4 to PS5 which is too early to fully speak for).

@bold: Oh, that's really interesting. If the leap is judged by quality, then that's a totally legitimate pick. The NES generation was hugely important for the industry, but it can't compare to the SNES years, which delivered masterpiece after masterpiece.

Judged on a technological level, I will be boring and echo the majority of posts: SNES to N64. I can't really put into words how the leap from 2D pixels to 3D polygons shifted how I understood and appreciated video game design and art. It blew the back of my head right off when I was 13.

The last time I felt anything similar was the jump to HD in 2005/2006. Since then, it has felt very much like diminishing returns.

Hard disagree here. The Nes delivered masterpiece after  masterpiece  as well and was a much more revolutionary system.

RankTitle90 Days Sold
1Super Mario Bros. 32096
2Super Mario Bros. 21531
3Legend of Zelda1179
4Super Mario Bros. / Duck Hunt924
5Super Mario Bros753
6Tetris721
7Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!666
8Zelda II: The Adventure of Link642
9Metroid568
10Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles526
11Contra497
12Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game485
13Final Fantasy378
14Dr. Mario367
15Excitebike360
16Castlevania359
17Mega Man 2348
18Dragon Warrior334
19Double Dragon II: The Revenge322
20Tecmo Super Bowl322
21Castlevania II: Simon's Quest299
22Mega Man 3292
23Double Dragon286
24Super C278
25Punch-Out!!268
26Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse258
27Ninja Gaiden249
28Paperboy244
29Batman: The Video Game242
30Top Gun241
31DuckTales231
32Golf223
33Kung Fu220
34Ghosts 'n Goblins218
35Donkey Kong Classics216
36Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos212
37Friday the 13th212
38Metal Gear208
39Kirby's Adventure204
40Tecmo Bowl202
41Simpsons: Bart Vs. the Space Mutants201
42Duck Hunt195
43Double Dribble194
44Battletoads194
45Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project191
46Marble Madness190
47R.C. Pro-Am189
48Rad Racer187
49Blaster Master187
50Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers187
51Donkey Kong179
52Gyromite178
53Double Dragon III: The Sacred Stones174
54Hogan's Alley167
55Little Nemo: The Dream Master167
56Mario Bros.167
57Kid Icarus165
58Mega Man162
59Blades of Steel161
60Pro Wrestling160
61Skate or Die157
62Goonies II157
63Ice Hockey156
64Adventures of Bayou Billy153
65Mega Man 4151
66Pinball150
67Fester's Quest150
68RoboCop150
69Bubble Bobble149
70Jaws149
71Rampage145
72Life Force139
73Bionic Commando137
74Spy Hunter136
75Crystalis136
76Wizards & Warriors II: Ironsword133
77Top Gun: The Second Mission133
78Wizards & Warriors133
79Faxanadu133
80Yoshi130
81Mickey Mousecapade129
82BurgerTime127
83Jackal127
84Back to the Future127
85Maniac Mansion127
86Tetris 2126
87Karate Kid124
88Rygar124
89Dragon Warrior II124
90Mega Man 6124
91Baseball122
92Adventure Island122
93Commando120
94Ivan 'Ironman' Stewart's Super Off Road120
95Shadowgate116
96Monopoly115
97Mega Man 5115
98Pac-Man [Tengen]113
99Bad Dudes112
100Star Tropics109

 



Wman1996 said:
Azzanation said:

For me it was the SNES to N64. That 3D jump was 1 of a kind.

Followed would have to be the N64 to Gamecube. Seeing games like Luigis Mansion looked like a Pixar Movie.

6th Gen Graphics (especially cutscenes) were the first time I can think of where the graphics looked even somewhat like Toy Story (1995). 

None of the 5th Gen games I can think of match movies like Toy Story, A Bug's Life, and Toy Story 2. 

Ironically the tie-in games for all those movies were part of the 5th gen of games

Yeah, cutscenes especially going from 5th gen to 6th gen was insane! One of the biggest comparisons I've seen was going Final Fantasy 9 to Final Fantasy 10. And that was literally just a year apart!

Going from SNES to N64 was absolutely a huge jump but honestly every system going from 5th gen to 6th gen would have my vote. Even the Dreamcast. 



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Vinther1991 said:

Mega Drive to Saturn closely followed by SNES to N64. If Switch is considered a successor to the 3DS, then it wins by a mile.

Nice to see Sega get a shoutout; the jump from 2D to 3D was monumental for them as well, even if the system didn't have the same impact that the N64 did.

Saturn to Dreamcast was also a massive leap considering the came out only 4 years apart.



Funny thing is I had a dreamcast but for some reason ps2 blew me away more. Certain games like mgs2 trailer and gran turismo 3 had my jaw on the floor, heck I owned a Xbox as well and resident evil 4 on ps2 impressed me more then anything on Xbox just shows how important art style is. I never saw resident evil 4 on GameCube but that must have been a sight to behold back then. Easily the best looking game of that generation imo. I think in that generation ps2 introduced new lighting  tech while dreamcast did not.

Last edited by zeldaring - on 07 February 2024

haxxiy said:
Pemalite said:

The Nintendo 64 wasn't really Ram limited.
With the expansion pack you could have 8MB... And the system can theoretically support around 12-16MB which is the upper limit from the initialization routines on the system itself... The Nintendo 64 was able to be fairly memory efficient as it can stream data directly from the ROM carts with no load times.

The issue was that stupid 4kb of texture cache... With a unified memory architecture it was a stupid and unnecessary decision.

That Mario 64 demo does use the expansion pack, and a lot of games that did too had access to 2-4 times higher resolution options even if the expansion pack wasn't mandatory. That is kind of huge.

It is my understanding that their esoteric 9-bit Rambus RAM was way faster than the PS1's EDO RAM, but the CPU and GPU would fight over access to it so unified memory wasn't as optimal back then as it would in the X360 days.

Ideally, they probably should have done away with the cache (which is still RAM, mind, SRAM) and included some 4MB of dedicated VRAM. Even without the benefit of hindsight, I don't think developing that kind of solution was out of reach for Silicon Graphics considering the PS1/Saturn opted for this.

If you watch the video it goes in-depth on the CPU/GPU contention issues when accessing Ram.

And yes, the expansion pack was used by a plethora of games... To various degrees. I.E. Donkey Kong used it to get around a memory leak bug.
But I wouldn't consider additional Ram beyond that to be a "memory starved" ecosystem, it was limited in other ways before that became a big issue.

They didn't even need to skip the 4kb of texture memory or replace it, they just needed to let developers bypass it entirely and access straight from cart or system memory.



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zeldaring said:

Funny thing is I had a dreamcast but for some reason ps2 blew me away more. Certain games like mgs2 trailer and gran turismo 3 had my jaw on the floor, heck I owned a Xbox as well and resident evil 4 on ps2 impressed me more then anything on Xbox just shows how important art style is. I never saw resident evil 4 on GameCube but that must have been a sight to behold back then. Easily the best looking game of that generation imo. I think in that generation ps2 introduced new lighting  tech while dreamcast did not.

I'm not an expert but as far as I'm aware, Dreamcast did introduce new lighting tech; it was just less powerful than PS2 due to releasing over a year earlier, and didn't stick around long enough to benefit from a lot of the technical advances made during that generation.