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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Unpopular opinion (on the internet): BotW and TotK's weapon durability feature is one of these games greatest mechanics

^ "Is there a flaw in my design? No, it's the players who are wrong." --Principal Skinner



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TallSilhouette said:

^ "Is there a flaw in my design? No, it's the players who are wrong." --Principal Skinner

If I went into Resident Evil and refused to use my gun because I was too attached to my bullets, would that be a flaw in Resident Evil?

Of course not. People who insist on playing a game the wrong way have only themselves to blame.



curl-6 said:
TallSilhouette said:

^ "Is there a flaw in my design? No, it's the players who are wrong." --Principal Skinner

If I went into Resident Evil and refused to use my gun because I was too attached to my bullets, would that be a flaw in Resident Evil?

Of course not. People who insist on playing a game the wrong way have only themselves to blame.

I refused to use my gun because bullets are hard to come by. Plus knifing enemies is much more intense. Knives never break, and you can throw them and they instantly re-appear on your wrist. Refusing to spend bullets led to many creative solutions in RE8. Bayonet on the shotgun, using landmines, pipe bombs, the environment, your fists. Lot of stuff to experiment with thanks to a generous inventory space. All experimentation I couldn't do in BotW for having to keep multiple of the same weapons on hand all the time.

BotW was great despite the annoying weapon durability. I would have loved to experiment more with wands and status effect weapons, but never had room to carry them along to try on different enemies and in different habitats.



SvennoJ said:
curl-6 said:

If I went into Resident Evil and refused to use my gun because I was too attached to my bullets, would that be a flaw in Resident Evil?

Of course not. People who insist on playing a game the wrong way have only themselves to blame.

I refused to use my gun because bullets are hard to come by. Plus knifing enemies is much more intense. Knives never break, and you can throw them and they instantly re-appear on your wrist. Refusing to spend bullets led to many creative solutions in RE8. Bayonet on the shotgun, using landmines, pipe bombs, the environment, your fists. Lot of stuff to experiment with thanks to a generous inventory space. All experimentation I couldn't do in BotW for having to keep multiple of the same weapons on hand all the time.

BotW was great despite the annoying weapon durability. I would have loved to experiment more with wands and status effect weapons, but never had room to carry them along to try on different enemies and in different habitats.

There are countless creative ways to kill enemies and progress in BOTW/TOTK without using weapons too.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 18 May 2023

curl-6 said:
TallSilhouette said:

^ "Is there a flaw in my design? No, it's the players who are wrong." --Principal Skinner

If I went into Resident Evil and refused to use my gun because I was too attached to my bullets, would that be a flaw in Resident Evil?

Of course not. People who insist on playing a game the wrong way have only themselves to blame.

I'm not playing wrong for saving a weapon with capability that I don't know if I will ever be able to find another equivalent. If those weapons were avaible to buy in a easy way, I could decide when to use them more consciously. However some people (me included) don't use them because we are constantly in a paranoid state that if should not use this weapon or item now because I will find a much harder enemy in the next corner and I want to be prepared

That's why I also hate unique consumable temporary items and never used them. It gives me anxiety and drives away from the fun of experimenting abilities. How is this good design? Lol

Side note but I lose the sense of reward when a weapon that is hard to find break after few hits

Again in elden Ring I explored the depths of huge dungeons only to acquire certain weapons which I end not even using much, as they do not match my build or playstyle but I still have them to decorate my catalog and have my sense of fulfillment and satisfaction, and I can use them any time I want just need to redistribute my stats to meet requeriments

In Zelda you finish quests to get weapons that will break after one battle or two. Very strange way to reward the player 

Anyway, I can't think a single situation where the game is improved because special weapons break easily. Random weapons dropped by minions ok, they can break fine I know I will find countless of them. But strong weapons breaking is honestly a pain. If they want to implement weapon breaking so bad they could at least improve a forging system 

Devs seems to agree with me the original system is flawed and annoying, because fusion system is almost like a forgery.  I don't bother with preserving some kind of weapons quite as much now, because I know how to easily farm some items and use fusions to have working weapons that are easy to replace. 



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IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

If I went into Resident Evil and refused to use my gun because I was too attached to my bullets, would that be a flaw in Resident Evil?

Of course not. People who insist on playing a game the wrong way have only themselves to blame.

I'm not playing wrong for saving a weapon with capability that I don't know if I will ever be able to find another equivalent. If those weapons were avaible to buy in a easy way, I could decide when to use them more consciously. However some people (me included) don't use them because we are constantly in a paranoid state that if should not use this weapon or item now because I will find a much harder enemy in the next corner and I want to be prepared

That's why I also hate unique consumable temporary items and never used them. It gives me anxiety and drives away from the fun of experimenting abilities. How is this good design? Lol

Side note but I lose the sense of reward when a weapon that is hard to find break after few hits

Again in elden Ring I explored the depths of huge dungeons only to acquire certain weapons which I end not even using much, as they do not match my build or playstyle but I still have them to decorate my catalog and have my sense of fulfillment and satisfaction, and I can use them any time I want just need to redistribute my stats to meet requeriments

In Zelda you finish quests to get weapons that will break after one battle or two. Very strange way to reward the player 

Anyway, I can't think a single situation where the game is improved because special weapons break easily. Random weapons dropped by minions ok, they can break fine I know I will find countless of them. But strong weapons breaking is honestly a pain. If they want to implement weapon breaking so bad they could at least improve a forging system 

Devs seems to agree with me the original system is flawed and annoying, because fusion system is almost like a forgery.  I don't bother with preserving some kind of weapons quite as much now, because I know how to easily farm some items and use fusions to have working weapons that are easy to replace. 

If you get overly attached to expendable resources that's not a flaw in the game.

There will always be new weapons to find so this fear that drives you to hoard them is unfounded.

You're refusing to engage with the game on its terms and instead trying to play it the way you want, which is contradictory to its design. It's the equivalent of trying to button mash your way through Monster Hunter and then calling it bad design when that's not accomodated.

Just relax, let go of the urge to hoard, and stop trying to fight the developers.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 19 May 2023

curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I'm not playing wrong for saving a weapon with capability that I don't know if I will ever be able to find another equivalent. If those weapons were avaible to buy in a easy way, I could decide when to use them more consciously. However some people (me included) don't use them because we are constantly in a paranoid state that if should not use this weapon or item now because I will find a much harder enemy in the next corner and I want to be prepared

That's why I also hate unique consumable temporary items and never used them. It gives me anxiety and drives away from the fun of experimenting abilities. How is this good design? Lol

Side note but I lose the sense of reward when a weapon that is hard to find break after few hits

Again in elden Ring I explored the depths of huge dungeons only to acquire certain weapons which I end not even using much, as they do not match my build or playstyle but I still have them to decorate my catalog and have my sense of fulfillment and satisfaction, and I can use them any time I want just need to redistribute my stats to meet requeriments

In Zelda you finish quests to get weapons that will break after one battle or two. Very strange way to reward the player 

Anyway, I can't think a single situation where the game is improved because special weapons break easily. Random weapons dropped by minions ok, they can break fine I know I will find countless of them. But strong weapons breaking is honestly a pain. If they want to implement weapon breaking so bad they could at least improve a forging system 

Devs seems to agree with me the original system is flawed and annoying, because fusion system is almost like a forgery.  I don't bother with preserving some kind of weapons quite as much now, because I know how to easily farm some items and use fusions to have working weapons that are easy to replace. 

If you get overly attached to expendable resources that's not a flaw in the game, that's a you problem.

There will always be new weapons to find so you this fear that drives you to hoard them is unfounded.

You're refusing to engage with the game on its terms and instead trying to play it the way you want, which is contradictory to its design. It's the equivalent of trying to button mash your way through Monster Hunter and then calling it bad design when that's not accomodated.

I see no reason why weapons obtained through quests and hard shrines should be expendable, doesn't make any sense. I'm not talking about random weapons, I'm talking about the best ones. For instances, elemental weapons, only on my third playtrough I realized the coliseum was a place to farm them, which still needs me to wait for the red moon and of course I need to fight the enemies and make them drop the weapons without kill otherwise after many turns all leader Goblin in the map will be overpowered white ones that will make you need to spend 4-5 weapons before killing it, rendering you to a loop where you need to constantly weapon-hunt the enemies if you want to stay fighting them. My solution was to just avoid fighting roaming enemies and it worked quite well, but the game would be better if they balanced weapon durability. I've ended in a situation where I spent HALF of my weapons stash to kill a single Lyonel, this is in no way acceptable in any game unless the rewards are mind-blowing enough to justify such expense 

Plus, if the terms of the game are not fun, engaging, rewarding, addictive or anything positive I see no reason why I should call it anything but bad. I mean, people can argue you spend way too much time crafting in Animal Crossing because they game do not want you to craft a lot of items to farm things easily, devs did that on purpose but I'm in no way forced to agree it's a good design decision 

As I stated before, I'm so sure the original devs don't agree with you they indeed changed the system to one much more lenient. Fusing solve many of the problems of weapon durability and no longer requires me to hunt good weapons. I can rest assured the minions in the map won't upgrade because I no longe feel like I need to hunt them 



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

If you get overly attached to expendable resources that's not a flaw in the game, that's a you problem.

There will always be new weapons to find so you this fear that drives you to hoard them is unfounded.

You're refusing to engage with the game on its terms and instead trying to play it the way you want, which is contradictory to its design. It's the equivalent of trying to button mash your way through Monster Hunter and then calling it bad design when that's not accomodated.

I see no reason why weapons obtained through quests and hard shrines should be expendable, doesn't make any sense. I'm not talking about random weapons, I'm talking about the best ones. For instances, elemental weapons, only on my third playtrough I realized the coliseum was a place to farm them, which still needs me to wait for the red moon and of course I need to fight the enemies and make them drop the weapons without kill otherwise after many turns all leader Goblin in the map will be overpowered white ones that will make you need to spend 4-5 weapons before killing it, rendering you to a loop where you need to constantly weapon-hunt the enemies if you want to stay fighting them. My solution was to just avoid fighting roaming enemies and it worked quite well, but the game would be better if they balanced weapon durability. I've ended in a situation where I spent HALF of my weapons stash to kill a single Lyonel, this is in no way acceptable in any game unless the rewards are mind-blowing enough to justify such expense 

Plus, if the terms of the game are not fun, engaging, rewarding, addictive or anything positive I see no reason why I should call it anything but bad. I mean, people can argue you spend way too much time crafting in Animal Crossing because they game do not want you to craft a lot of items to farm things easily, devs did that on purpose but I'm in no way forced to agree it's a good design decision 

As I stated before, I'm so sure the original devs don't agree with you they indeed changed the system to one much more lenient. Fusing solve many of the problems of weapon durability and no longer requires me to hunt good weapons. I can rest assured the minions in the map won't upgrade because I no longe feel like I need to hunt them 

It's fair enough to not like it, I'm not saying you have to and I'm sorry you don't enjoy it, I'm just saying it is the way it is for a good reason. Many people do find it fun, engaging, rewarding, and addictive.

And Fuse doesn't negate durability, it expands weapon variety while keeping them breakable. If the devs thought durability was a flaw they would have removed it.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 19 May 2023

curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I see no reason why weapons obtained through quests and hard shrines should be expendable, doesn't make any sense. I'm not talking about random weapons, I'm talking about the best ones. For instances, elemental weapons, only on my third playtrough I realized the coliseum was a place to farm them, which still needs me to wait for the red moon and of course I need to fight the enemies and make them drop the weapons without kill otherwise after many turns all leader Goblin in the map will be overpowered white ones that will make you need to spend 4-5 weapons before killing it, rendering you to a loop where you need to constantly weapon-hunt the enemies if you want to stay fighting them. My solution was to just avoid fighting roaming enemies and it worked quite well, but the game would be better if they balanced weapon durability. I've ended in a situation where I spent HALF of my weapons stash to kill a single Lyonel, this is in no way acceptable in any game unless the rewards are mind-blowing enough to justify such expense 

Plus, if the terms of the game are not fun, engaging, rewarding, addictive or anything positive I see no reason why I should call it anything but bad. I mean, people can argue you spend way too much time crafting in Animal Crossing because they game do not want you to craft a lot of items to farm things easily, devs did that on purpose but I'm in no way forced to agree it's a good design decision 

As I stated before, I'm so sure the original devs don't agree with you they indeed changed the system to one much more lenient. Fusing solve many of the problems of weapon durability and no longer requires me to hunt good weapons. I can rest assured the minions in the map won't upgrade because I no longe feel like I need to hunt them 

It's fair enough to not like it, I'm not saying you have to and I'm sorry you don't enjoy it, I'm just saying it is the way it is for a good reason. Many people do find it fun, engaging, rewarding, and addictive.

And Fuse doesn't negate durability, it expands weapon variety while keeping them breakable. If the devs thought durability was a flaw they would have removed it.

It solves the weapons durability issue because it adds enough options to build useful weapons trough the game. I didn't use to feel anxiety because I was in attached with a piece of bits in a vidoegame, but because I never saw easy replacement for the best weaponry

The majority of mid-to-good tier weapons are found is specific points of the map, often hidden in treasure boxes and they do not respawn. Of course as you progress the minions get better weapons that you can steal, the problem is when you kill them too much, they become stronger which is in my first playtrough it turned my game to be pretty unbalanced because

a) I suck at combat

b) The leader silver moblin or lizalfos (the ones with good weapons to steal) started to turn white which made a pain to kill 

As I said before, I solved that tough intensive shrine hunting and avoiding fighting. By the end game you reach a cap where you cannot get any stronger, except at killing Guardians if you have the right gear and master sword you can trivialize the fight against every single of them, but the other enemies start to get brutal because you just never have good enough weaponry to deal with them

Of course, I'm maybe be overestimating TOTK fusion system, I'm only in early game, I need to see how it hold on mid and late game before jumping to conclusions 

It still not solving my second issue though, which is not having permanent weapons from the most meaningful quests/missions. Limited use of champions weapons was a big pet peeve of mine, I hope they found someway to make forging those weapons more lenient in TOTK because farming diamonds was a pain in my ass



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

It's fair enough to not like it, I'm not saying you have to and I'm sorry you don't enjoy it, I'm just saying it is the way it is for a good reason. Many people do find it fun, engaging, rewarding, and addictive.

And Fuse doesn't negate durability, it expands weapon variety while keeping them breakable. If the devs thought durability was a flaw they would have removed it.

It solves the weapons durability issue because it adds enough options to build useful weapons trough the game. I didn't use to feel anxiety because I was in attached with a piece of bits in a vidoegame, but because I never saw easy replacement for the best weaponry

The majority of mid-to-good tier weapons are found is specific points of the map, often hidden in treasure boxes and they do not respawn. Of course as you progress the minions get better weapons that you can steal, the problem is when you kill them too much, they become stronger which is in my first playtrough it turned my game to be pretty unbalanced because

a) I suck at combat

b) The leader silver moblin or lizalfos (the ones with good weapons to steal) started to turn white which made a pain to kill 

As I said before, I solved that tough intensive shrine hunting and avoiding fighting. By the end game you reach a cap where you cannot get any stronger, except at killing Guardians if you have the right gear and master sword you can trivialize the fight against every single of them, but the other enemies start to get brutal because you just never have good enough weaponry to deal with them

Of course, I'm maybe be overestimating TOTK fusion system, I'm only in early game, I need to see how it hold on mid and late game before jumping to conclusions 

It still not solving my second issue though, which is not having permanent weapons from the most meaningful quests/missions. Limited use of champions weapons was a big pet peeve of mine, I hope they found someway to make forging those weapons more lenient in TOTK because farming diamonds was a pain in my ass

With all due respect, you say here that you "suck" at the combat and that this made the game unbalanced. How is that the game's fault?

Having permanent weapons would completely undermine the game's survival elements; not being able to just pick one weapon and play nothing else is the whole point. You are supposed to be making do with the resources you have at any one time, much like a survival horror game might require you to make do with limited ammo or items at any one time. It's a resource management mechanic.

You are not supposed to get attached to the weapons, you just use them then get new ones.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 19 May 2023