For @Otter as well.

The decision to delay the game has to come way before it releases, when we are talking about a Naughty Dog game for example, the devs need to crunch HARD to meet a release deadline and that is after one or two delays from the original release. There is really no way Sony would got and force them to add even more work to have that game they have been working for 5+ years just so it can be there for a system launch. Those games are monumental.

The games are not immediatly ported and need to have substantial improvements to justify existing as crossgen, that's why you'll likely see crossgen 1 or 2 years after the launch, and not mostly around it. Because the devs had time to both plan it and know the system a bit more. Games releasing with a new system are planned for that from the get go, or very early on, you can be sure of that. You are way more likely to see either a PS5 or a PS6 game over a crossgen one, specially for those biggest studios.

As I said, I honestly doubt we'll see the likes of ND, SM or PD ever having a launch title for one of their huge games.

And for Otter, GT PSP only exists because it was supposed to exist for the PSP, that's a completely different thing, a side project and magnitudes less of a ordeal than to aim a GT8 for the release of the PS6.

I don't think we'll agree on this topic lol. To me it feels like you're operating on an outdated belief of how developers would approach cross generational support + misunderstanding my stance. 

To clarify my position I'm not arguing Intergalactic will be a cross gen game or that sony is going to force a port at the last minute.

What I'm suggesting is that unannounced games which are  internally aiming for late 2027 or beyond are naturally already being developed with cross gen in mind. Maybe they'll miss launch day...Hell, maybe they'll even arrive a year later, but the point is that cross gen will be an inherent part of it's dev cycle.

Now lets imagine one of these unannounced games is GT8 or Santa Monica's next game. If said game is internally expected to arrive in the same window as the PS6, then yeah, I expect  discussion would be had about landing it directly with launch as oppose to it arrive 6 weeks before. This is the basis of me floating those games, not because I think the developers have decided they want their next game to be a launch title but because I actually think their (Santa Monica for example) next game may actually land fall 2027 in alignment with a new syste,

To further put things into perspective, every Playstation game that launched after July 2020, launched during the PS5's launch day or after. 

You suggest there's lots of evidence that this wouldn't happen to one of Sonys big developers but there's actually no evidence of that. Just references to very different scenarios in very different development environments (like GT6 PS3 vs PS4, or TLOU2 a game originally targeting Q1 2020 well ahead of PS5 coming out). I'm happy to leave it there though as its pure speculation on our part and I have no conviction of what will/will not be a PS6 launch title. This was just me looking at Sonys list of developers and seeing who is likely to launch in that window.

Yeah, I have to agree here. If the stars can perfectly align, there's no doubt Sony would go for it. Development is not a linear scale though, so naturally there'll be projects which are internally planned for releases before and those that are internally planned for a PS6 launch window. But as we have seen with TloU2 actually, that games can get delayed very quickly when an issue in development is found (it's one of the reasons Sony doesn't give out dates till they are almost 100% locked down these days). But yeah, if one of their games for PS5 is going to launch around the time as the PS6, why wouldn't they try to combine the 2? It just makes sense as it adds more spotlight on both the game and the console, regardless of whether it's exclusive to PS6 or not. 

Speaking on the PS6. Media Molecule is one of the developer who I think could do some very interesting things with AI tools PS6 may offer. Would be cool for them to work on Astro's Playroom style tech demo experiences too and not just the huge user generated worlds/tools.

As much as LBP was about user creation, it was also just a charming stand alone world and bunch of characters. This something that I think dreams was missing.

Would be nice for their ambitions to be clawed back a bit or at least for them to be working on several projects at a time. The big creative tools (Dreams) type community games, and then the novel/fun gameplay experiences (Tear Away/Astrobot style thing). Tearaway was cute but just didn't put enough emphasis on "fun". Really hoping they're able to get a hit with their next game, but also that they tackle smaller projects in future.

We will disagree, indeed, but I really don't understand where your point comes from, as I've explained mine with multiple example. 

The bolded part is a good example, you get most of the launch year and ignore it as if it somehow helps your point, instead of helping mine.

The fact is the two big games for the year, The Last of Us Part II and Ghost of Tsushima, released very close to the launch of the PS5 without a PS5 version.

Meanwhile the two smaller games, Sackboy and Spider Man standalone expansion, were crossgen. And a remake, which was a more visually appealing project, was a PS5 exclusive and did not have a PS4 version.

2020 heavily implies what I'm talking about but somehow you think it helps your point, not mine, even when you originally said you could see a huge game could be pushed foward 2 or 3 months away for a release windown, and we have examples of the two biggest games of the launch year being 4 and 5 months away from the PS5 release yet not being crossgen, as close as possible to that 2 to 3 months away you said.

I have no problem with we disagreeing, but I have pointed about it happeing every single generation up until now, but somehow there is no evidence of it... here it goes:

PS2 release date, 03/2020.

The Legend of Dragoon release date, 12/1999 (3 months before). PS1 only.

Gran Turismo 2 release date, 12/1999 (3 months before). PS1 only.

PS3 release date, 11/2006.

God of War 2 release date, 03/2007 (4 months after), PS2 only.

PS4 release date, 11/2013.

The Last of Us release date, 06/2013 (5 months before). PS3 only.

Gran Turismo 6 release date, 12/2013 (1 month after). PS3 only.

PS5 release date, 11/2020.

The Last of Us Part II release date, 06/2020 (5 months before). PS4 only.

Ghost of Tsushima release date, 07/2020 (4 months before). PS4 only.

This kind of huge project has always being that way, we actually only have evidence about it, not against it. It's ok to believe that may change now with the PS6, but to say there is no evidence about the biggest games not being delayed to meet new systems launch... no.

The biggest game Sony had for a launch was Killzone Shadowfall, and that was before Guerilla Games became one of their top tier studios with Horizon Zero Dawn, and yet it was PS4 exclusive and not crossgen as gen.

I'm indulging this one last time because I think you genuinely haven't been alerted to the technical side of things.

1) Anything before the PS4/PS5 Transition is irrelevant.

All of the bolded is irrelevant. It's not evidence, it's just data without context. It's like using the PS2 $99 price tag in 2007 as evidence that PS5 will be $99 in 2027. Hardware was so wildly different during the early generations, cross gen was not at all practical and engines were not built with that capacity. It not really to do with the size of the games, just the fact that cross gen wasn't a thing. Now things are different. Here are some comments about porting The Last of Us from the PS3 to the PS4.

Porting The Last of Us to PS4 was hell, says Naughty Dog

"We expected it to be hell, and it was hell. Just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds… that took a long time. These engineers are some of the best in the industry and they optimised the game so much for the PS3's SPUs specifically"

Naughty Dog Didn’t Have a ‘PS4 Engine Capable of Running Anything on January 1, 2014’

https://www.digitalspy.com/videogames/ps4/a572405/porting-the-last-of-us-to-ps4-was-hell-says-naughty-dog/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Sony has been extremely vocal about removing this friction and across the generations and every platform including from Nintendo has become more streamlined. Engines are more scalable and futureproof. Aside from the craziness of the PS3 cell architecture you also just had the transition from PowerPC to X86 etc etc, it was just very different age.

So Yeah, GT6 launching for the PS3 a month after the PS4 is just reflection of the time and technology, there was no logical alternative of making it cross gen and aligning with PS4's hardware launch. It is why PS4 does not even have back compat with PS3. There's also an artistic reason which no longer applies. You can literally see it in how Sony sold PS3 remasters. They packaged then into bundles for the price of single PS4 game or sold them as stand alone titles for a fraction of PS4 game at $20. Hardware leaps were much bigger and they would of never of stuck a PS3 logo over a PS2 game and called that a launch title. Times are different now.

The below is a $70 PS5 game versus its PS4 counterpart.



God of War Ragnarök always had PlayStation 4 in mind. This was stated by animation director Bruno Velazquez in an interview with Eurogamer.
From the very get-go, we knew that this was going to be a PS4 game, because we wanted to support the fanbase.

If you want to look at actual evidence of shifts in development look at this. How many cross gen games did sony release across PS1 and PS2? ZERO. How many cross gen games did sony release for PS4/PS5? Five (From my count). 4 of them huge AAA titles. 


2) The Last of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima are also irrelevant :D 

They are not evidence that a big studio wouldn't align with a hardware launch if they anticipated their game would be delivered in the same window. Neither of these games were expected to land alongside the PS5 which is why they were announced 3/4 years before the system.

Final release dates are themselves typically a result of several internal delays. TLOU2 was first expected to land in February. Ghost was planned for June. Both probably had initial internal release dates before that. 

There are no examples for you to actually use because Sony did not announce a single new 1st party title after 2017... until the reveal of the PS5 in summer 2020. A clear internal distinction happened internally between PS4 exclusive hardware and cross gen long before any announcements. I don't think that means that they forced games to delay themselves by X amount of months, but merely that together with the studios, way before any date was announced to public, they aligned on what would/wouldn't make sense as a potential launch title and thus some games would of incorporated PS5 support midway through development. Not as some huge chore but a natural part of their development goals. Games that would of had a loose "late 2020 target", would of had that pin pointed to a November 12th launch dates. No game would be held hostage, no game would be forced to be released if it wasn't ready (See all of the delays that we saw for GT7/Ragnorok/Horizon) but it would be decided years in advance whether it would try to support the new platform.

One thing we do have evidence for is that Sony aligns 1st party content to it's hardware launch. So I'm expecting to see a conscious effort from them to provide that 1st party PS6 content. And those discussion will happen well in advance of anything being announced with ALL their internal teams. No exceptions. 

Something that is probably being forced on all of their 1st party studios, is the need to be PS Portable verified for any game going forward.

Maybe you really should stop indulging on it, while calling every single evidence as irrelavant. You probably will call the same stuff irrelevant if it happen with PS5 to PS6 so there really is no argument to be have here.

Every studio I mentioned, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and Polyphony Digital has factual story of doing exactly what I said, every single time, up until now.

About God of War Ragnarok, which is the only thing we can talk about your whole post instead of dismissing what I've been saying all this time, it only proves you wrong as well.

Why did it 2 to 3 months of delay did not result in it releasing close to the PS5, and not 2 years after it? Sony clearly had the PS4 in mind, indeed, but that game was never close to release on the PS5 launch, like Horizon Forbidden West and Gran Turismo 7, that's why all of them were crossgen, because they had time to work on it midway through development, because that is planned to be that way.

If when we have huge games releasing 4 and 5 months before the PS5, and not having a PS5 version ready for the launch, it's as good as an example as we can have, from this very generation transtion, but you still choose to dismiss it as irrelevant because they foil your reasoning in every way possible: the aren't old games, and they still had very close to PS5 release windown, yet were not crossgen. It was the perfect opportunity do delay them to add crossgen, yet it didn't happen...

I've been saying the same thing over and over again, which you have no need to agree, obviously, but my reasoning has a lot of evidence, yours has none, but as things change, you can be right and I wrong, yes, but right now that is only a possibility grounded on future expectations, not on historical data.

If Intergalactic is to be released for the PS5 4 months before the PS6, I expect it to release as a PS5 exclusive exactly there, and not be pushed as a crossgen release for the PS6. I literally have no reason to expect otherwise.

You know what I think you are right. I was assuming Sony wouldn't release anything else this year because of GTA but I can see 4loop releasing this year. 

My biggest problem with that game is that it just looks uninteresting to me lol, maybe the trailers are just bad. 

In the case of Horizon I really want that game to succeed but the animosity from the community because it "looks like fortnite" is fucked up. 

And fairgames in my opinion has the potential to be the nuke that will end with everything lol. 2020s acquired studio, reveal trailer was bad, report of the game not being fun in 2025, change of game director, the co-funder leaves the studio and now another report of the game still not being fun for the testers. Then there was that "leak" of the game modes that sound like every other competitive shooter out there lol. I don't want another closed studio so yeah if the game is successful that would be good news but if it isn't it would be full circle that Concord and Fairgames were revealed in the same show, the last PS Showcase. 

I wouldn't mind if Sony is holding games for the PS6 release but implying the console is set to release for Holidays next year I don't know what games they could be holding lol.

Polyphony: Gran Turismo 8, the obvious one.
Insomniac: Venom ... ???
Naughty Dog: If the reports are true their second game is in its 4th year of development, maybe could release in 2028 but that wouldn't be holding.
Santa Monica: Cory's game is going to release on ps5 and GOW remake is going to take a while.
Asobi: Like ND their game could be ready for 2028 but that wouldn't be holding.
Guerrilla: Assuming the rumors are truth Horizon 3 still has a log way before release.
Media Molecule: Maybe but 7 years for their new game is crazy.
Firesprite: Call of the Mountain released in 2023 and sony basically fired half the studio after cancelling their service so they are still in schedule.
LFG: That game feels very close, they just hired a product manager.
Haven: I would be surprised if they hold Fairgames for the PS6 release lol.

Housemarque, Sucker Punch, Bend and Bungie will be out of commission for the next 4 to 5 years.
Maybe external studios making some magic.