Look at the Israel-Palestine conflict what that leads to. The Oslo accords were basically that, keep parts of the Westbank and look good in the process. Israel also kept parts of Lebanon and Syria after 'leaving' those wars, and now full scale war again.

Putin is a war criminal with ICC arrest warrant outstanding
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and

The last thing we need is to make Putin look good so he, or his followers can (and will) try again.

The Ukraine really is as simple as Russia needs to fully withdraw from all Ukrainian territory. Then sort things out.

The struggles in Ukraine started pretty much at the same time as the struggles in Palestine
https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/Transcarpathia-in-Czechoslovakia
In the aftermath of WW1.

Ukraine has declared independence since 1991, Russia needs to leave them alone.

The fault for the long duration of this war is on the West. Desperately trying to keep the status quo (money making status quo) and unwilling to send troops to defend Ukraine.  UNSC can't do anything because of Russia's veto. So the West is just trickling military aid to basically turn it into a proxy war against Russia instead of liberating Ukraine.

Call me cynical but US and Europe are pretty much using Ukraine to renew their military equipment (send the old stuff to Ukraine) while using Ukraine to weaken Russia. Using Ukraine as a reason to expand NATO instead of focusing on getting Russia out of Ukraine.

NATO Nukes

There are no countries in NATO who border Russia, currently in possession of nuclear weapons, the closest is Türkiye who is a "nuclear weapon sharing state" but Türkiye does not border Russia, it does however border a CSTO country (Russia's own version of NATO), Armenia, who are currently threatening to leave CSTO because Russia is not protecting them against Azerbaijan.

There is however, Russia, who does posses nuclear weapons, who border 3 NATO countries (Finland, Estonia, Latvia). There is also Kaliningrad (Russia) as the HQ of the Baltic Fleet and in possession of nuclear capable weapons, who border 2 more NATO countries (Lithuania, Poland). There is Belarus also bordering Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, who are currently holding Russian nukes too so spare me the hypocrisy.

Russia is scared of NATO nukes that don't even exist on Russia's border so for that reason Ukraine isn't allowed to join NATO but for some reason Russia is allowed nukes on NATO's border and also allowed to turn Kaliningrad into a militarised little enclave that sits between Poland and the Baltics. Yeah, that makes sense.

It's fucking irrelevant where the nukes are, whether they're near the border or not, a Ballistic Missile has a range in the thousands of KMs, nuclear missiles have delivery methods of ground, air launched or sea launched. We could slip a submarine in the Black Sea, we could slip a submarine in the Baltic Sea, we could send a missile over from the fucking UK if we wanted to. If we wanted to hit Russia with nuclear missiles, we sure as shit don't need to border them, it would be just as easy to do it without bordering them, it's called intercontinental ballistic missile for a reason.

Putin's Excuses

Putin has used various excuses to invade Ukraine, from "NATO" to "Ukraine Nazis" to "Biolabs" to straight up whipping out a map which he used to claim that Ukraine doesn't exist as a country and is a vassal state of Russia and people still buy into the NATO bullshit.

Putin's NATO

Russia has its own version of NATO called CSTO, if they weren't such a massive dickhead to everyone then maybe more people would have joined it. Even now Armenia is threatening to leave CSTO because Russia is letting them be fucked by Azerbaijan.

NATO

• NATO has never attacked a country for wanting to join CSTO.
• NATO has never attacked Russia.
• Article 5 has only ever been invoked once, by America, in response to 9/11.
• NATO is a defensive alliance.

America did not force Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, etc...To join NATO, they did so largely because of Russian aggression because Russia has committed horrific acts on most of these countries throughout its history and they are scared of Russia for that reason. They don't all hate Russia for no reason, they don't hate Russia because America told them to, stop treating them like stupid children who don't understand what they're doing just because they aren't a Western Country.

The Eastern Countries aren't the strongest supporters of Ukraine for no reason and it's in fact the West (America and Germany) who are being cowardly in dealing with Russia and holding back while the Eastern Countries are asking us "Wtf are you doing, we need to defeat Russia" contrary to the belief of people parroting Russian propaganda, America has been annoyingly cautious in dealing with Russia.

Ukraine NATO

America and Germany already blocked their entry to NATO in the early 2000s. Ukraine was nowhere close to joining NATO to begin with, especially due to Russia invading Ukraine in 2014 via Donbas and Crimea, the biggest mistake some make with this war is thinking it started in 2022 when it in fact started in 2014.

What did we do in 2014? Exactly what is being suggested now, aka do nothing, Obama was a coward on tackling Russia and basically gave them a slap on the wrist and moved on, did us being Neville Chamberlains back in 2014 stop Russia from invading further? No it did not. We went back to business as usual, trading with Russia, trying to be friendly with Russia, and then they spat in our face and invaded the rest of Ukraine.

NATO isn't ran solely by America, the HQ is even in Europe and NATO requires a "Yes" from every single country for 1 single country to join, at least one country (likely America and Germany ironically) would have said "No" out of fear of conflict with Russia.

Zelenskyy is currently signalling that despite Ukraine wanting to join NATO, as is their right as an independent country, that he may be willing to drop the issue in exchange for security agreements, the other with that is they are only good if actually enforced, Ukraine already had security agreements with US, UK and Russia in exchange for giving up their nukes, guess who broke that security agreement? Oh, yeah, Russia.

Russia's Other Conflicts/Invasions

We already looked the other way with Crimea + Donbas, Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, etc. Countries which Russia has invaded and taken over for various bullshit reasons and let me tell you, Chechnya and Georgia definitely weren't joining NATO so what's the excuse for those countries? Putin just happens to have history of invading and taking over a bunch of countries because everyone is being mean to the poor fella.

Lets not forget sabotage of military facilities across Europe, violating NATO airspace with missiles and drones, the downing of MH17, using deadly nerve agents on UK soil; What did we do? Again, what is being suggested here, we looked the other way in desire for "peace" and said "Oh Russia, you're so bad" and went immediately back to trade deals and trying to be their friend.

How much is Europe expected to look the other way on Russia's sicko actions? We spent years trying to lick Russia's ass and it got us nowhere, it only emboldened Putin to be even more aggressive because you know why? Being a coward emboldens bad people, if nobody stands up against them then why the hell would they stop doing what they're doing?

Yeah that's all great. 
And then in a few years, Putin invades again, because he's been made to feel the last one was a success. 

Dictators with a history of invading countries, and being all around horrible people, should not be placated.

I assure you, it's not spite. 

The sarcasm is just me being lazy/trying a different approach from Ryuu. My family also just uses a lot of sarcasm.

I'm mostly okay. Sometimes I'm real tired of seeing the same hateful nonsense, but I have a high threshold for it. 

No, that's not my suggestion and I'm not playing armchair general with this. I just want the conflict to end, Idk at what cost personally but for conflicts to end consessions have to be made on both sides. We know the conflict will come to an end and there will be no clear winner so right now it's only prolonging suffering. If putins as mad ad they say he is and as stubborn as he appears to be what's to stop him gambling on a tactical nuke to avoid loosing. Fuck that. 

It took decades of killing and suffering here in Ireland over a damn swath of land before we came to some type of resolution, what was it all for when it could have all been avoided had it been easily predicted that there would be no clear winner and consessions would eventually have to be made.

I just say find a way to cut it out now without more killing or desperate move from Putin like gambling that a tactical nuke will not start global nuclear war and if he does gamble on that he could well be right. 

Chechen Wars 1 and 2 as well. Russia failed in the first Chechen War, so what did they do? They built their military back up and then utterly annihilated Chechnya in the 2nd Chechen War and nobody was there to help Chechnya or give Chechnya any security guarantees. That's Ukraine's future if we allow Russia to take a victory from the war but also block Ukraine from being able to make alliances with other countries. Neville Chamberlains desperate attempts to placate Nazi Germany got us nowhere. America being isolationist got them attacked by Japan.

Ukraine really is as simple as Russia needs to fully withdraw from all Ukrainian territory.

It really is that simple, Russia just needs to get the fuck out of a country which isn't theirs. The sad thing is, I'm fully expecting that literally the moment this war ends, America + Western Europe will in an instant lift all the sanctions on Russia when Imho they should remain in place and be gradually lifted along stages, such as Russia admitting wrongdoing, Russia helping to rebuild Ukraine and those responsible being punished. I don't know but based on some countries cowardice, especially America and Germany, I fully expect they'll in an instant go back to business as usual with Russia as pathetic as that sounds, I have just lost confidence in some countries.

I don't actually think Ukraine will be allowed in NATO either...I still support Ukraine's desire to want to join NATO because Ukraine is an independent country and they have that right to try to join NATO but I just don't think it's happening at this stage, I think America and Germany are too afraid of "escalation" and they'll once again block Ukraine's entry into NATO for the near-mid term future even post-war. All it takes is one veto...I mean if it's not America or Germany it could be Hungary.

That's why Zelenskyy is lately focusing more on security guarantees than NATO but those are as worthless as the security guarantee in the 90s where UK, USA and Russia gave Ukraine security guarantees in exchange for their nukes, which Russia broke, those security guarantees are useless if not enforced and I have low-confidence they would be enforced if it's not NATO's umbrella.

Personally, I would fully support the UK entering into a security agreement with Ukraine post-war where if Ukraine was invaded once again, the UK would put troops on the ground in Ukraine and Navy vessels into the Black Sea and defend Ukraine simply because it's the right thing to do and I'm not afraid of Russia's 20,000 nuke threats but I'm not PM, obviously, Lol.

I think we should clarify though, a lot of the pathetic escalation management is mainly stemming from Western Europe; America, Germany in particular but France and UK aren't blameless, UK for example doesn't have to be a dog to the USA, Lol. We could lift the restrictions on Storm Shadow and what the fuck is America going to do about it? Lol.

The Baltics, Nordics and Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, have been amazing in their support of Ukraine, they've been the most vocal in supporting Ukraine and strongest in terms of GDP. They've been emptying their stocks for Ukraine. They understand the threat of Russia which America and Western Europe don't. They've been the strongest advocates of lifting restrictions on Ukraine and stop with this stupid escalation management bullshit.

But unfortunately, it is Western Europe who have the most military might and these countries need Western Europe's backing. Romania wants to shoot down Russian missiles and drones entering their airspace but they can't do it without guarantees that Western Europe will stand by their side. Likewise with the Baltics who are simply not powerful enough and these are the countries which would the frontline defence against Russia while America, UK, France and Germany sit in the background chilling.

Well, just checking. Usually that's a sign that people aren't holding up very well, I know cause I've been there 🙃

And yeah, that's what everyone keeps telling me, keep fighting, no surrender, keep killing each other over the ego of some old man. 

Your last sentence. Exactly. 

I don't care what the fault is and with whom, the main goal should be to have it stop at this point. Not throw another 8 billion of military equipment and munitions in what's basically become attrition warfare. 

"You can tell Putin would leave the war if he had a chance to do so and look good in the process, like keep parts of Eastern Ukraine"

That literally was your suggestion, to let Putin keep parts of Eastern Ukraine, therefore rewarding him for his genocidal conquest.

If you want the war to end quicker than you should be supporting increased military assistance and less restrictions, unless you want the war to end quicker no matter what, in which case, that would be stopping military support to Ukraine and letting Russia slaughter them and take over the entire country. So which is it, do you want the war to end with a just victory to Ukraine or do you just want the war to end?

Why the fuck should Ukraine have to concede to anything? Have you asked them if they want to concede to anything? Ukraine is the victim here and you're telling the victim they should be forced to settle and reward the enemy. How can you tell those soldiers that they fought for nothing? The families of the dead soldiers that they died for nothing? Because we're giving it to Russia, their land they fought for.

"If Putins as mad ad they say he is and as stubborn as he appears to be what's to stop him gambling on a tactical nuke to avoid loosing."

Russia's Red Lines in The Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

China's Final Warning - Wikipedia

This list isn't even everything.

Sometimes, a cornered rat is just a cornered rat. And when faced with a superior and committed adversary, it will simply scurry away.

As Russia has demonstrated repeatedly, we've broken multiple of their "red-lines" and they did nothing in response despite their threats, Prigozhin marched on Moscow and Putin fled to St Petersburg and made a deal with him. You know why this is? Because Putin does not want to die, Russia won't use nukes because nobody wins in a nuclear war and not even China would have their back anymore.

You made no comment on my hypothetical and also how placating never works.

Did I read that right that your from Ireland?  What if the UK one day (they wont) decided their empire days of 100+ years ago was pretty great and they wants to take over Ireland.  Would you suggest Ireland should put up a fight or should it roll over and simply hand over whatever land UK wanted to stop bloodshed?

K. So lets cut off all aid to Ukraine and let Russia slaughter them and take all the way up to Kyiv and down to Odesa, which is still their goal, because Kyiv is the capital and they want to regime change Ukraine and the only reason they currently aren't occupying Kyiv right now is because Ukraine beat them back and they want to take up to Odesa to connect their forces to their Russian forces currently illegally occupying Moldova (WOW MUST BE NATO AGAIN) and to cut Ukraine off from the sea and extend their own Black Sea control.

Congratulations on rewarding 21st Century Hitler and throwing Ukraine to their death, I don't care if it's what you intend to suggest, just like you don't care whose fault it is for the war, it is what your suggestion will result in. You and everyone like you are nothing but a bunch of modern day Neville Chamberlains who seemingly did not learn a damn thing from WW2 or even from modern conflicts such as Chechnya and Russia's invasion of Crimea in 2014.