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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu Sales: Week 4, 2023 (16 Jan - 22 Jan)

Chicho said:

ACNH is the Best selling game ever in Japan. I think that achievement is better than more weeks at #1

It doesn't matter what achievement is better. Contrary to you other people maybe find it interesting.



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ShadowLink93 said:

After 4 weeks PS5 is already 80k up on last year, 171k to 91k. If Sony can provide enough units then PS5 could sell 2 million in 2023, something that the PS4 couldn't achieve.

PS4 v PS5 Famitsu sales.

PS4

2014:
 926k (released Feb)
2015: 1.21 million
2016: 1.79 million
2017: 1.94 million
2018: 1.69 million
2019: 1.20 million
2020: 543k
2021: 104k
2022: 23k
Total: 9.42 mllion

PS5

2020:
 255k (released Nov)
2021: 968k
2022: 1.15 million

It’s kinda wild that the PS4 never reached 2 million units sold in any year it’s been on the market in Japan. It basically had all of the AAA Japanese games under the sun:

- FFXIV

- FFXV

- FFVIIR

- DQXI

- Metal Gear Solid V

- Monster Hunter World

- Resident Evil VII

- Resident Evil Village

- Resident Evil 2 Remake

- Resident Evil 3 Remake

- Devil May Cry 5

- Persona 5

- Nier Automata

- Tekken 7

- Street Fighter 5

- Elden Ring

- Dark Souls 3

- Seikiro

And nowadays we’re talking about the Switch possibly selling 3-4 million this year and ready for the console to set off into the sunset. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but it’s interesting reflecting on the two consoles. I know people will mention differences between the consoles and their prices, but you gotta also consider that the Switch is selling games at relatively close to home console prices, not at DS/3DS game prices.

You think the PS5 will reach 2 million this year because of improved stock to meet the initial demand? Or is there a game that could potentially be that mega hit that will drive console sales? Could it be FFXVI or Spider Man 2?



curl-6 said:
Farsala said:

From what I understand it is still significantly more difficult to optimize for the Switch even for low tech games. Small developers also have less people to work on ports.

The creators of Eiyuden Chronicle- 100 Heroes spoke out against low spec hardware. Here is a quote from their Kickstarter.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rabbitandbearstudios/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes/description

"The elephant in the room is that while nobody knows what Nintendo's plans are for when this game releases, in just about every major Japanese game crowdfunding campaign, when a lower spec hardware has been listed on the campaign, it has invariably been too expensive, often times requiring downgrading textures, massive amounts of code rewrites, effectively meaning building two games.

For anyone that has backed one of these campaigns, you obviously know the outcome. These platforms usually get cancelled or dropped from the campaign. So again, in keeping with 100% transparency for what is an incredibly difficult problem, if the console stretch goal is cleared, we will create a version of the game for Nintendo hardware.

Hopefully, that will be something akin to a Switch 2, allowing for similar quality and gameplay experiences across all platforms. In the end, if no such console is announced by the time we need to create new console version branches, we will go through the major challenges of the aforementioned texture changes and code rewrites, or refund any backers who pledged to the platform, if there is absolutely no solution."

This game is by all means not cutting edge, and even though they surpassed the kickstarter goal for the Switch version within days in 2020, they did not announce that they were making a 1. Switch version until May 2022.

This is clear evidence of a developer explaining why Switch ports are very difficult compared to other platforms. Bold for emphasis.

1. The same team later changed their mind and decided to bring Hundred Heroes to Switch though: 

https://www.gematsu.com/2022/05/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-adds-switch-version

2. Also a key word is "port". If a game is built from the ground up for much stronger hardware than naturally work will have to be done to adapt it, but if you build it for the Switch from the start, that won't be necessary. 

Most non-AAA Japanese games have a Switch version, and most of them come out the same day as the PS version.

1. I feel like you are not even reading my post, because I literally already said that in my post.

2. That is the exact same problem except in reverse. However it is always easier for developers to start with the PC or similar x86 architecture game consoles like the PS5 or XBS than the Switch's Arm. The Switch version whether built from the ground up or a port will always take longer than other versions and thus be seen as a delay for the other versions. These companies release their games same day for the benefit of each individual consumer to not feel singled out by releasing late ports. It is much better marketing for all sales to be on the same day, same thing as having a worldwide release.

Basically I am saying that when companies release games for the Switch, they are actually really passionate and confident in the Switch version.

I am not criticizing the Switch having the Arm, because I think it is necessary for the Switch to be the Switch IE: portable. But it is the reality of the situation that it would make ports or games built from the ground as the more difficult option unless they are Exclusive.



Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

1. The same team later changed their mind and decided to bring Hundred Heroes to Switch though: 

https://www.gematsu.com/2022/05/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-adds-switch-version

2. Also a key word is "port". If a game is built from the ground up for much stronger hardware than naturally work will have to be done to adapt it, but if you build it for the Switch from the start, that won't be necessary. 

Most non-AAA Japanese games have a Switch version, and most of them come out the same day as the PS version.

1. I feel like you are not even reading my post, because I literally already said that in my post.

2. That is the exact same problem except in reverse. However it is always easier for developers to start with the PC or similar x86 architecture game consoles like the PS5 or XBS than the Switch's Arm. The Switch version whether built from the ground up or a port will always take longer than other versions and thus be seen as a delay for the other versions. These companies release their games same day for the benefit of each individual consumer to not feel singled out by releasing late ports. It is much better marketing for all sales to be on the same day, same thing as having a worldwide release.

Basically I am saying that when companies release games for the Switch, they are actually really passionate and confident in the Switch version.

I am not criticizing the Switch having the Arm, because I think it is necessary for the Switch to be the Switch IE: portable. But it is the reality of the situation that it would make ports or games built from the ground as the more difficult option unless they are Exclusive.

ARM is common, long established, standardized architecture, not some arcane hardware like the PS3 that's insanely difficult to code for. Games come out day 1 on Switch all the time, if it was really that hard then we wouldn't be seeing smaller devs do it on a practically daily basis.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 30 January 2023

curl-6 said:
Farsala said:

1. I feel like you are not even reading my post, because I literally already said that in my post.

2. That is the exact same problem except in reverse. However it is always easier for developers to start with the PC or similar x86 architecture game consoles like the PS5 or XBS than the Switch's Arm. The Switch version whether built from the ground up or a port will always take longer than other versions and thus be seen as a delay for the other versions. These companies release their games same day for the benefit of each individual consumer to not feel singled out by releasing late ports. It is much better marketing for all sales to be on the same day, same thing as having a worldwide release.

Basically I am saying that when companies release games for the Switch, they are actually really passionate and confident in the Switch version.

I am not criticizing the Switch having the Arm, because I think it is necessary for the Switch to be the Switch IE: portable. But it is the reality of the situation that it would make ports or games built from the ground as the more difficult option unless they are Exclusive.

ARM is common, long established, standardized architecture, not some arcane hardware like the PS3 that's insanely difficult to code for. Games come out day 1 on Switch all the time, if it was really that hard then we wouldn't be seeing smaller devs do it on a practically daily basis.

Agreed.

But x86 is easier for gaming console game developers, hence the post.



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Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

ARM is common, long established, standardized architecture, not some arcane hardware like the PS3 that's insanely difficult to code for. Games come out day 1 on Switch all the time, if it was really that hard then we wouldn't be seeing smaller devs do it on a practically daily basis.

Agreed.

But x86 is easier for gaming console game developers, hence the post.

I'm not a developer, so I can't speak to which is easier, it just still sounds to me like its more the porting down to a device below a game's established performance baseline that seems to cause issues. Whenever I hear devs talk about the challenges of working with Switch's it's always about getting games designed for a higher spec to run on a lower one, never that the hardware is inherently difficult to code for.



Wouldn't it make more sense to then make the game for switch and port up to playstation/pc and have everything release at the same time?
Playstation owners don't seem to care about switch ports to playstation from what I've seen, and just want to play the games on their system.

Or maybe delay the game for 6 months, Japanese games are doing better on switch then their playstation equivalent more now then ever, even if it's just the switch brute forcing higher sales because of the shear amount of console sales, but because of that the switch games sales should offset any extra development times, rather then releasing the game late and having maybe 1/3 of the total sales it could have had



curl-6 said:
Farsala said:

Agreed.

But x86 is easier for gaming console game developers, hence the post.

I'm not a developer, so I can't speak to which is easier, it just still sounds to me like its more the porting down to a device below a game's established performance baseline that seems to cause issues. Whenever I hear devs talk about the challenges of working with Switch's it's always about getting games designed for a higher spec to run on a lower one, never that the hardware is inherently difficult to code for.

Neither am I. But we can listen to what the developers themselves have to say. Eiyuden Chronicles is one example. Talking about rewriting entire code and basically making a 2nd game. Most people develop games on a Windows PC.

In this article a pro-Arm developer lists some details for why Arm is difficult on Windows PC.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/op-ed-windows-isnt-ready-for-arm-developers/

But I think the most important reason why it is difficult is because PC/XB/PS are all x86, while only one console is ARM. So naturally a port between those 3 will be easier than the single ARM console.



Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

I'm not a developer, so I can't speak to which is easier, it just still sounds to me like its more the porting down to a device below a game's established performance baseline that seems to cause issues. Whenever I hear devs talk about the challenges of working with Switch's it's always about getting games designed for a higher spec to run on a lower one, never that the hardware is inherently difficult to code for.

Neither am I. But we can listen to what the developers themselves have to say. Eiyuden Chronicles is one example. Talking about rewriting entire code and basically making a 2nd game. Most people develop games on a Windows PC.

In this article a pro-Arm developer lists some details for why Arm is difficult on Windows PC.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/op-ed-windows-isnt-ready-for-arm-developers/

But I think the most important reason why it is difficult is because PC/XB/PS are all x86, while only one console is ARM. So naturally a port between those 3 will be easier than the single ARM console.

But if it's so difficult, how come smaller devs manage to do it all the time, especially in Japan? Non-AAA games get simultaneous releases all the time.



Kai_Mao said:
ShadowLink93 said:

After 4 weeks PS5 is already 80k up on last year, 171k to 91k. If Sony can provide enough units then PS5 could sell 2 million in 2023, something that the PS4 couldn't achieve.

PS4 v PS5 Famitsu sales.

PS4

2014:
 926k (released Feb)
2015: 1.21 million
2016: 1.79 million
2017: 1.94 million
2018: 1.69 million
2019: 1.20 million
2020: 543k
2021: 104k
2022: 23k
Total: 9.42 mllion

PS5

2020:
 255k (released Nov)
2021: 968k
2022: 1.15 million

It’s kinda wild that the PS4 never reached 2 million units sold in any year it’s been on the market in Japan. It basically had all of the AAA Japanese games under the sun:

- FFXIV

- FFXV

- FFVIIR

- DQXI

- Metal Gear Solid V

- Monster Hunter World

- Resident Evil VII

- Resident Evil Village

- Resident Evil 2 Remake

- Resident Evil 3 Remake

- Devil May Cry 5

- Persona 5

- Nier Automata

- Tekken 7

- Street Fighter 5

- Elden Ring

- Dark Souls 3

- Seikiro

And nowadays we’re talking about the Switch possibly selling 3-4 million this year and ready for the console to set off into the sunset. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but it’s interesting reflecting on the two consoles. I know people will mention differences between the consoles and their prices, but you gotta also consider that the Switch is selling games at relatively close to home console prices, not at DS/3DS game prices.

You think the PS5 will reach 2 million this year because of improved stock to meet the initial demand? Or is there a game that could potentially be that mega hit that will drive console sales? Could it be FFXVI or Spider Man 2?

I think providing enough stock will be enough to get it close to 2 million and then factor in games like FFXVI and Resident Evil 4R then it should do it.