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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Moren said:

We couldn't even be bothered to station NATO troops in Ukraine.

Hey, maybe when we also let China take Taiwan in the name of nationalism and US isolationism and the global supply chain is destroyed, we'll realize that our current foreign policy is a big failure.

I'm with you in spirit, but I would point out that Ukraine isn't a NATO signatory. We don't station NATO troops in non-NATO countries.

What the Ukrainians have asked of us is that we help supply them with the weapons they need to defend themselves and abandon material support for their attackers immediately. That is what we should do.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 24 February 2022

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drkohler said:
Signalstar said:

Putin is a mad man. Russian aggression must be stopped. Attacks on Ukrainian cities have begun.

I was watching the speech of Joe Biden. I was absolutely horrified of what I saw. An old man who couldn't even give a speech for more than three minutes without starting to mumble and incoherently utter meaningless part-phrases. Is this guy senile?

That was the moment when Putin decided he can go after the Ukraine without fear of any reprisals. Seeing his worst "enemy" on tv with such an absolutely catastrophic performance was the get-go sign.

Now we will see umpteen politicians going on tv declaring "we are with the Ukraine",  "Putin bad guy" and all these blatherings really shows that the West has no guts. I give the Ukraine about 48 hours before their politicians run and the country is in Putin's full control.

And this WAS avoidable, but not with a quasi senile US president. And let's face it, the US would have had to bite the bullet and lead the coward pack (Europeans, all talk, no action).

I don't think this was avoidable, Putler has been building and planning towards this for nearly 10 years.

And I bet he even counted on his toyboy and bitch Donald to be the president of US at this point. If you think Biden's speech is senile rambling, just check out what Trump is tweeting. 

US and EU should be doing more to sanction Russia I agree, but I think Putler has to be surprised how united EU and US seem to be. And they wouldn't be if Trump was the president.



drkohler said:
Signalstar said:

Putin is a mad man. Russian aggression must be stopped. Attacks on Ukrainian cities have begun.

I was watching the speech of Joe Biden. I was absolutely horrified of what I saw. An old man who couldn't even give a speech for more than three minutes without starting to mumble and incoherently utter meaningless part-phrases. Is this guy senile?

Yeah. He isn't the most eloquent of speakers.

Then again, Trump was the same. - He could never speak surety and would always blame someone else if something went wrong... He would play games.

However... Just because someone has issues with public speaking, doesn't mean their intellectual fortitude is impacted in anyway... I mean. Case in point: Stephen Hawking was one of the smartest people in modern times, yet required the use of electronic aids to express himself.

Either way, Democracy voted for Biden. So Biden is what you got... Time to move on and work with whatever he puts forth.

drkohler said:

That was the moment when Putin decided he can go after the Ukraine without fear of any reprisals. Seeing his worst "enemy" on tv with such an absolutely catastrophic performance was the get-go sign.

Now we will see umpteen politicians going on tv declaring "we are with the Ukraine",  "Putin bad guy" and all these blatherings really shows that the West has no guts. I give the Ukraine about 48 hours before their politicians run and the country is in Putin's full control.

And this WAS avoidable, but not with a quasi senile US president. And let's face it, the US would have had to bite the bullet and lead the coward pack (Europeans, all talk, no action).

To be fair, Trump was Pro-Russia anyway from my view... At-least under the surface. - Besides he really didn't want troops overseas which was a very strong election promise.
So if anything, this would have still occurred, but with far less political opposition.

Could it have been avoidable? Russia does it's own thing... So I would argue no.

The difference today verses 10 years ago however... Is that Russia doesn't actually need the USA or Europe anymore... The West empowered China's economics, which Russia is benefiting from...

Russia has also taken note of the Wests failure to contain China's progress/aggression in the Pacific over the past few decades.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Mar1217 said:

I mean, I don't think I need to point much of the historic parrallels that can be pointed out right now with the current political situation and what was happening in 1930's Europe when Nazi Germany decided to annex Sudetenland and other german speaking territories to further their "Vital Space".

It certainly needs to be treaded carefully but the Occident is in the midst of prolly making the same errors has was done back then by giving Poutin's govern the leeway he needs.

My class essay about the ciclical nature of human history is certainly looking more valid as time goes on sadly ...

This time, however, there are nukes, for better or worse. Worked in the 60s, it'll cool off things again, and sanctions and prolongation of the conflict will be used to exhaust Russia instead. The economy of the country is already setting up for implosion as we speak. Sacrificing that for the revival of the old empire of the Romanov is bonkers, but romantic fantasies of expansionism is exactly what prompted World War II, so Putin's approach to the whole situation is far from surprising. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Mar1217 said:

I mean, I don't think I need to point much of the historic parrallels that can be pointed out right now with the current political situation and what was happening in 1930's Europe when Nazi Germany decided to annex Sudetenland and other german speaking territories to further their "Vital Space".

It certainly needs to be treaded carefully but the Occident is in the midst of prolly making the same errors has was done back then by giving Poutin's govern the leeway he needs.

Hitler didn't have nuclear weapons. If Russia didn't either they wouldn't be invading. Or if Ukraine had them too.

You can bet you'll see many, many countries developing nukes this century.



 

 

 

 

 

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As an American I don't mind helping other nations.... but this is a world problem. I don't think 'we' ante up until the rest of the world does as well. We aren't the world's police. Unless other nations want to start paying for our military.



I've been following this very closely over the past weeks, Vladimir Hitler is an absolute monster, fuck Putin, fuck anyone who downplays Russian aggression, especially fuck anyone who outright supports it, fuck monsters like Tucker Carlson and Tulsi Gabbard jumping in defence of Russia or Trump calling Putin a genius and suggesting they should do the same to Mexico, this is fucking disgusting, it has so many parallels to Nazi Germany, a sovereign country is being brutally invaded for the crime of just daring to exist, Putin has gone absolutely insane.

And don't be an idiot, this has nothing to do with Biden's ability to speak, I have my criticisms of Biden outside of this but Biden has done a brilliant job at bringing the West together so far against Russian aggression, we tried diplomacy but you can't do diplomacy with a mad man, Russia already attacked Ukraine years ago and this is a culmination of years of build up, I'm sorry to any Russian citizens who are against Putin's bullshit but we have to respond with aggressive sanctions and cut Russia off from the rest of the world, even if it hurts us.

And the Mod team stands with Ukraine so take that into account before saying dumb shit.

FWIW: Ukraine Humanitarian Relief/Support Efforts Thread | ResetEra

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 24 February 2022

Chrkeller said:

As an American I don't mind helping other nations.... but this is a world problem. I don't think 'we' ante up until the rest of the world does as well. We aren't the world's police. Unless other nations want to start paying for our military.

The problem is the UN is a joke because the security council has nation(s) on it that will never do the right thing. It was a joke to begin with and is a joke now. So the UN won't send in a peacekeeping force, not that it would do by good even if they did as the Rwanda situation taught us.

And Ukraine isn't in NATO because of at least one country objecting, so they can't help either.

So we either wait on the sidelines until Russia likely takes over and proceeds to invade the other nations that joined NATO since 1997 and China sees our hesitation and invades Taiwan or we do something about it right now.

Either way, the world will blame the USA as usual. We either do too much or too little.

I wish we could go back to an isolationist way, but so many countries don't spend enough money on their defense due to expecting us to deal with their problems. If we sit this out it won't be long before China swallows up most of Asia, Russia does the same to Europe, and Iran and the other Muslim extremist countries try unsuccessfully to wipe out Israel.



Dulfite said:
Chrkeller said:

As an American I don't mind helping other nations.... but this is a world problem. I don't think 'we' ante up until the rest of the world does as well. We aren't the world's police. Unless other nations want to start paying for our military.

The problem is the UN is a joke because the security council has nation(s) on it that will never do the right thing. It was a joke to begin with and is a joke now. So the UN won't send in a peacekeeping force, not that it would do by good even if they did as the Rwanda situation taught us.

And Ukraine isn't in NATO because of at least one country objecting, so they can't help either.

So we either wait on the sidelines until Russia likely takes over and proceeds to invade the other nations that joined NATO since 1997 and China sees our hesitation and invades Taiwan or we do something about it right now.

Either way, the world will blame the USA as usual. We either do too much or too little.

I wish we could go back to an isolationist way, but so many countries don't spend enough money on their defense due to expecting us to deal with their problems. If we sit this out it won't be long before China swallows up most of Asia, Russia does the same to Europe, and Iran and the other Muslim extremist countries try unsuccessfully to wipe out Israel.

Agreed on all points.  UN needs to be a real entity.  Until UN starts functioning properly the world is going to be rough.



Chrkeller said:
Dulfite said:

The problem is the UN is a joke because the security council has nation(s) on it that will never do the right thing. It was a joke to begin with and is a joke now. So the UN won't send in a peacekeeping force, not that it would do by good even if they did as the Rwanda situation taught us.

And Ukraine isn't in NATO because of at least one country objecting, so they can't help either.

So we either wait on the sidelines until Russia likely takes over and proceeds to invade the other nations that joined NATO since 1997 and China sees our hesitation and invades Taiwan or we do something about it right now.

Either way, the world will blame the USA as usual. We either do too much or too little.

I wish we could go back to an isolationist way, but so many countries don't spend enough money on their defense due to expecting us to deal with their problems. If we sit this out it won't be long before China swallows up most of Asia, Russia does the same to Europe, and Iran and the other Muslim extremist countries try unsuccessfully to wipe out Israel.

Agreed on all points.  UN needs to be a real entity.  Until UN starts functioning properly the world is going to be rough.

It never will, that's what happens when you include countries with governments that are terrible. We should just have NATO, change the name to be more world-including, and invite all other allied nations, no matter how big or small, into it, as long as there is no objections. Strengthen NATO and if someone new wants to join they will have to prove themselves through governmental reform if needed before joining. We should stop funding the UN entirely and let NATO carry out humanitarian missions for nations that join. Eventually most nations will be in NATO except for the ones that do terrible things to their own people and those around them, the modern Axis of Evil, like Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They are left out until they reform and if they attack any NATO nations they get a whole lot more than pathetic sanctions to shut them up.

For the record, I hate war and loss of life.