By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

SecondWar said:
Hiku said:

Kazakstan refuses to send troops to Ukraine

Note - I’m not reposting that picture as its way too big.

If true, interesting that Russia felt the need to ask Kazakstan for military support. Is it trying to build a coalition for political purposes, unwilling to commit more of its own troops or is it overstretched?

I'm guessing all of the above, but especially number three. Putin expected Ukraine to roll over for him. So did the Russian Army. Now that they're facing stiff resistance, it's looking like Putin overplayed his hand, and this could be a disaster for him.



Around the Network
Hiku said:
SecondWar said:

Note - I’m not reposting that picture as its way too big.

If true, interesting that Russia felt the need to ask Kazakstan for military support. Is it trying to build a coalition for political purposes, unwilling to commit more of its own troops or is it overstretched?

They also asked Chechnya for assistance. Who agreed to help Russia.

Chechen leader, a close Putin ally, says his forces have deployed to Ukraine | Reuters

The difference is Chechnya is still part of Russia, Kazakstan isn’t. The Chechnyan leader is basically still answers to Putin. It seems the Kazak leader isn’t as in thrall to Putin as the Belarussian one, 



NyanNyanNekoChan said:

I stumbled upon this earlier, apparently Putin is very madge.

Spoiler!

Also this...

Spoiler!

Interesting. I remember it being said after Russia’s 2008 invasion of Georgia that it seemed unclear if Russia could cope against a larger force. If the quotes above are accurate then it appears 14 years later and the answer is being played out.



NyanNyanNekoChan said:

I stumbled upon this earlier, apparently Putin is very madge.

Spoiler!

Also this...

Spoiler!

I hope Ukraine can last for 7 days, but it is looking rough. Only half of the Russian forces have been committed. Here is some maps of the advance for each day so far (see maps). If Russia manages to encircle Kiev with the Sumy force and actually obtain air superiority, I think things will be grim for Ukraine.



KratosLives said:

Can someone tell me what's the point of all those sanctions targeting people who have nothing to do with putin. To me it's as evil as anything else. So they hurt other people thinking it's going to effecr putin? All they're doing , if successful, is going to piss offputin further. He won't go down without nuclear warfare. This is going to end terribly for everyone, and all for what? Now that they failed to prevent an invasion which they could have easily, now it's going to be trying to prevnt nuclear war.

One can hope that inconveniencing the wealthy / powerful people in Russia will get them to act to dispose Putin?
Part of it is likely also an excuse to settle old grudges or to get ahead in other ways. War is always an opportunistic endeavor, war is a racket.

I'm also very weary about the twitter war that's going on alongside. I don't trust any of the information coming out right now and painting the Russian military as fools isn't a smart thing to do.



Around the Network
Ryuu96 said:

I can barely enter rich text reply, anyone else?

It is fine for me with 10 posts per page. I think a mass of twitter posts, will make it tough to enter rich text reply if you do many 50 or 100 posts.



I'm following the news on CNN Brazil. It's very sad to see people fearing for their lives and having to flee their own country.

Some brazilian guys living in Ukraine are asking our government for help to get back to Brazil. They should be safe, but I heard every male over 18 and below 60 are being forced to stay and fight if necessary. That's terrible,



Ryuu96 said:
SanAndreasX said:

Do you think that was a FOAB?

Seems the belief is a fuel depot was hit but I don't believe anything is confirmed yet.

I am no expert. But it looks like fuel.
Or a warehouse full of carbonaceous fuels. I.E. Pallets for a long burn.

KratosLives said:

Can someone tell me what's the point of all those sanctions targeting people who have nothing to do with putin. To me it's as evil as anything else. So they hurt other people thinking it's going to effecr putin? All they're doing , if successful, is going to piss offputin further. He won't go down without nuclear warfare. This is going to end terribly for everyone, and all for what? Now that they failed to prevent an invasion which they could have easily, now it's going to be trying to prevnt nuclear war.

They are complicit on the entire thing, they are part of the issue in pushing for this war.
By applying sanctions on them, they will in-turn apply pressure to Putins entire Government.

This isn't the first time that the world has sanctioned Russia, last time didn't result in Nuclear War.

...In saying that, Russia -is- invading another country, it -is- killing innocent people, if we act to protect those people... And it results in Nuclear retaliation, we -still- did the right thing.

Alex_The_Hedgehog said:

I'm following the news on CNN Brazil. It's very sad to see people fearing for their lives and having to flee their own country.

Some brazilian guys living in Ukraine are asking our government for help to get back to Brazil. They should be safe, but I heard every male over 18 and below 60 are being forced to stay and fight if necessary. That's terrible,

I've put in a informal request as a USAR technician to deploy to Ukraine to assist once the fighting has stopped.. If needed.
I can't take a life, but I can definitely help save them.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

KratosLives said:

Can someone tell me what's the point of all those sanctions targeting people who have nothing to do with putin. To me it's as evil as anything else. So they hurt other people thinking it's going to effecr putin? All they're doing , if successful, is going to piss offputin further. He won't go down without nuclear warfare. This is going to end terribly for everyone, and all for what? Now that they failed to prevent an invasion which they could have easily, now it's going to be trying to prevnt nuclear war.

Normally I would agree, but in this situation these sanction could prove quite effective. See, with the invasion Putin lost a lot of political backing - not only outside of Russia but inside as well. Even more so if the reports about high casualties prove true. If you an Oligarch and the West has put you on a sanction list you might be very incentivized to be the first to support a coup dethroning Putin, to get off that sanction list faster and also make good standing with the new regime.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Ryuu96 said:
SvennoJ said:

One can hope that inconveniencing the wealthy / powerful people in Russia will get them to act to dispose Putin?
Part of it is likely also an excuse to settle old grudges or to get ahead in other ways. War is always an opportunistic endeavor, war is a racket.

I'm also very weary about the twitter war that's going on alongside. I don't trust any of the information coming out right now and painting the Russian military as fools isn't a smart thing to do.

Eh, I think it's fair, it does look like there is a lot of baffling choices made by the Russian military and the invasion does come across as a bit sloppy, Russia is on paper vastly superior to Ukraine in almost every way, Russia was expected to steamroll into Kyiv before the invasion and take it fairly quickly, they should have had air superiority by now, they're been firing at the wrong locations, their location data seems to be outdated, their extremely valuable planes which carry hundreds of troops are being blown out the skies cause they're flying around in an area they don't have air superiority in, they've been struggling to hold some locations, etc.

They definitely didn't expect it to be as hard as it is and that is in part due to Ukraine's military turning out to be a lot tougher than expected but I also believe it's in part due to Russia's incompetence too, the Western intelligence which said that Russia would take Kyiv in days is now saying that Russia is experiencing a lot more casualties than expected.

However...

That doesn't mean that Ukraine will win, sadly, it is still the common belief that Russia will take Kyiv and thus, Ukraine, maintaining control over Ukraine is an entirely different question which isn't likely to go in Russia's favour, it can be true that Russia's military is fairly incompetent but they're still a very dangerous force through sheer numbers alone, Ukraine simply doesn't have those same numbers, not in manpower nor equipment, I don't know if there's a path where Zelensky wins, maybe if they can hold out just long enough, Russia decides it isn't worth it anymore, I don't know.

Anyway, I would also say that painting Russia as fools doesn't really change anything for us, it ain't like we're doing the fighting but it does play a part in psychological warfare, I doubt Ukraine will underestimate Russia but at the same time, this will demoralise Russian troops (if they see it) and inspire Ukrainian troops, it will give them hope that they can actually win this thing if they have the belief this vastly superior army does have holes in its armour.

On the other hand, it's a lot more bloodshed and collateral damage until negotiations begin. I doubt this would ever end with Russia simply annexing Ukraine again, outside pressure will eventually restore order. Whether a continue struggled improves the bargaining positions, I don't know.

The problem with ridiculing the army is that it can come back to bite you in the ass. I doubt Putin will say, ok this is more difficult than I thought, let's retreat. I find this a scarier situation than if Russia had simply occupied Kiev and negotiations and sanctions would attempt to undo the occupation. The longer it takes, the more likely it is that Putin is going to use worse and worse weapons. Hopefully the military chiefs stand up to him and say enough. However they went ahead with the invasion in the first place :/

Of course how sloppy it actually is, don't know either. Misinformation is everywhere. Information warfare just as much as ground warfare. As you said, it can be demoralising to the troops, so there is benefit to embellishing the mishaps and downplaying the advancing ground army.

And so continues the collateral damage

Latest on Russia-Ukraine: UN confirms at least 240 civilian casualties; Russian forces blow up gas pipeline

The Ukrainian president’s office said Russian forces blew up a gas pipeline in Kharkiv, the country’s second-largest city.

The State Service of Special Communication and Information Protection warned that the explosion, which it said looked like a mushroom cloud, could cause an “environmental catastrophe” and advised residents to cover their windows with damp cloth or gauze and to drink plenty of fluids.

Ukraine’s top prosecutor, Iryna Venediktova, said the Russian forces have been unable to take Kharkiv, where a fierce battle is underway.

You don't want to roll over for the enemy, yet fight until nothing is left doesn't get you anywhere either. Putin still wins with the destruction of the Ukraine :/ Ukraine has the defensive advantage, yet also the one that sees its country destroyed. There is no winning in war.

Quick heavy sanctions will hopefully put pressure on the Russian government to put an end to it. Yet the realist in me says sanctions take a lot of time to have effect. A lot more damage can be done in the mean time.