I was beaten to it, but this is a strange thing to post on a site that is primarily about tracking the sales of gaming consoles. Some of us simply find numbers, facts, and statistics about our interests to be intriguing and fun to discuss.

"You need to look at this the way the businessmen look at things. They don't care about fanboys or console wars, they look at money."

"Its that they don't want to disclose sales figures for fanboys to compare when one company focuses heavily on hardware while the other doesn't."

Who cares though, right? If MS don't care about the fanboys, because they had moved on to the distant future with XB1, which didn't work out anywhere near as well as the competition who hopped instead of leaped, then why not just show the numbers, since you're not competing with anyone anyway. Everything points to the fact that they do care, and think the fanboys have God like influence which won't work in their favor. Which would imply either the numbers aren't so great, or the fanboys are truly marketing magicians, or both. Especially since that leap hasn't put MS in a position to show numbers yet, with two new console tiers, since they're still behind to the competition who is 'lagging behind', even though it's ahead of it's predecessor.

Is your overall point that XB1 wasn't really part of the 8th gen, but more like 10th gen? In that case MS would have like 6-8 more years to release the numbers. In upsidedownbackwards world, this does make sense actually.

I thought we needed to look at this the way buisnessmen look at it? That changed? 

They simply don't care as they don't want to fan the flames of console wars and fuel fanboys. Its as simple as that. 

Evidence below and why they want to stray away from it.

CrapGamer was a Hardcore Xbox fanboy. Have a read below.

After being heavily ratioed by Phil, CrapGamer is now a Hardcore PS Fanboy.

MS don't want to be involved in these conversations, they want to continue as a business and not fuel fanboys, regardless what side of the fence they sit on and i am 100% glad they stopped giving figures, as it does nothing but start childish debates. Its an unhealthy part of the console industry and Phil couldn't say it any better than this

"I think the people who want to pit us against Sony based on who sold the most consoles lose the context of what gaming is about today,"

^ I couldn't agree any more with this. The moment Nintendo and Sony start doing the same thing, the console industry would be a better place.

Well if Phil flip flopped then why is he surprised some fans were disappointed or flat out angered? 

How about the disputed flip flop Ryan did with the whole mess of charging for the HFW next gen upgrade? Should his answer have been, 'You're upset that a delayed game, far outside the launch window, that's received extra polish, is going to cost a little extra for the next gen enhancements that others are willing to pay for to experience'? Are you really going to tell me that would've been the better statement and way for Ryan to handle it? Basically tell the hardcore fans, 'too bad so sad, the casuals will cough that money up so it's worth it to turn a blind eye to you based on what I said prior'. That definitely seemed like the new direction SNY wanted to take based on the options and how they went back to the $10 fee for good going forward. I certainly remember XB fans, and not just fanboys, making it clear how sad or funny this was to them for poor SNY fans, at least initially before the flip.

Well if this is the reason, it says to me that Phil and XB simply don't like negative feedback when it comes to how they run things and when making changes. That's part of the job, and considering he was pushing exclusivity, while also pushing games to PC, and also talking about the competition, yet saying they're not competing, that's going to lead to confusion and gamers getting upset. Cutting the fanboys out, is also turning your back on some of the hardcore. Which gives the impression he and XB may head for casual land. If that's the direction they're taking then that's fine, they're in charge.

Still doesn't change the fact that gamers don't know what to make of the situation since it's not clear to them and so they'd like to see the numbers. Some are going to want to see them even if things are made perfectly clear. Phil/XB/MS are free to do whatever they want though when it comes to transparency.

The difference between what Sony did and what MS did are two different things. MS bringing games to PC affects no body, except fanboys, while Sony charging an extra $10 (PS5 Tax) is actually affecting people's wallets. Very different circumstances.

Look at it this way, more people use sales figures in a negative way in this industry than those that use it in a positive way. If all companies didn't disclose console sale figures, we wouldn't have internet arguing and shaming etc. It really does nothing for anyone except those 99% that want the info to brag or put others down on their choice of console.

MS are 100% competing with Sony, just not when it comes to selling plastic boxes. Below is something iv been saying for years yet people still want to compare console sales head on, when its not apples to apples anymore. The moment the XB1 changed its model, the comparisons are no longer a legit measurement outside of fanboys bashing each other.

Xbox boss Phil Spencer: we don't care if the PS5 sells more | TechSpot

Spencer said, “If [selling more consoles than Sony and Nintendo] was our approach, we wouldn’t put our games on PC. We wouldn’t put our games on Xbox One; we wouldn’t do xCloud and allow people to play games on their phones.”

^ True words, Business models don't match up anymore. They aren't pushing Hardware like Sony and Nintendo, their hardware is more an option now.

When i was buying my Switch at launch. My friend was worried about if the Switch would sell.. since Nintendo was coming off the WiiU generation, he was so focused on the systems sale numbers than actually buying and playing the system. I said to my friend, i could care less how much it sold, i just wanted to play Zelda. Got my Switch and had an absolute blast with it. Too many gamer's have his mentality.

So fanboys are completely unimportant, in fact useless, which is why MS doesn't want them comparing numbers as you said earlier, but charging more for extra is important because extra should be free, even for the fanboys?

Sales numbers are not important, people should be playing games not comparing business sale numbers.

I'd think, all gamers matter, but what about the non fanboys that liked XB due to console exclusivity. You think they don't exist? They are of no value?

Never said that.

So SNY shouldn't charge extra for the included PS5 next gen DS Controller features, but MS can charge extra for the not included, Elite Controller (S2)?

I don't understand, Are you comparing Sony charging $10 more to include DS Features on the default controller that comes with the system to a Elite Controller (S2) which is sold separately? Id tell you what i wouldn't agree on, if MS charged for the use of the Share Button on the Series X controllers.  

I'd say sales figures have been seen in a more negative way towards XB yes, because their numbers haven't been as good. PS (and Nin this gen) have their numbers looked at in a positive manner because they've been great. Nobody is going to look at poorer numbers and say wow this is fantastic.

They will never be as high anymore because MS isn't all about trying to push you in buying an Xbox. They are giving people plenty of reasons to ignore the console unless you really want one. Phil stated it clearly. If they wanted to compete head on with console sales, they wouldn't bring their games to other platforms like PC and XCloud. They would have stayed with the same business model as the 360 which did go head on.

Ok so MS isn't as focused on consoles so nobody can or should compare them. Then SNY isn't as focused on Netflix gaming, multiplayer, streaming, etc, so nobody can or should compare them. Nobody should be making any comparisons to GP, xCloud, etc, because that wouldn't make sense, correct? Yet SNY is still obviously competing but isn't as strongly in those area's, so they don't matter whatsoever? Ok I guess?

Correct, we shouldn't compare them.

What about people who care a lot about online multiplayer and/or fairness, cheating, brand toxicity, and cross play? Don't you think that how many people have the same console matters if you'll only be playing with people with the same console, or do those people not matter at all either? It's really no different for any device, Nin Switch or otherwise. Unit sales matter, even if you believe it doesn't for fanboys and hardware enthusiasts.

Unit sales don't matter, only to those interested in the console wars. Again, people should be playing and talking about the games, not which system sold more.

We are in a industry thats divided by exclusives. If they didn't exists, we would live in a world where console makers would be focusing on trying to make the best console with features that sell a system and not the games. Exclusives only separate friends, force people to buy hardware they don't want or afford. If anyone can watch a DvD on a DvD player why cant consoles? Than it all comes down to which console suits your needs, price, features, services, etc. Everyone plays together on the hardware that suits them. Much like Apple vs Android phones, we can all call and text each other, doesn't matter of the phone, what separates them are the features. This is why i favor PC gaming, its one community, not divided. (Until Epic, trying to bring in that console mentally, trying to separate the people with their service and paid exclusivity.)

If the Xbox Series was a total flop it would get way less games and Microsoft might stop making consoles so these parts are completely untrue. Comparing the libraries of poorly performing systems to ones that are really successful shows how massively important sales are.

Income and profits come from all sources not just hardware sales. The Gamecube only sold 21.74m Units yet Nintendo still made a small profit, now compare that to the PS3 and 360, which actually lost Sony and Microsoft Billions yet both sold 4x the Gamecube. As long as the products are profitable, than their is a high chance of continuation.