"Bold 1: Sure, because you're comparing a remastered game to a game that isn't remastered that was from the same device. However, I'd argue that, again, polygonal models for Pokemon on Sun and Moon are better than the models for the monsters in Generations Ultimate for 3DS. I guess texture work is "better", but it's also very different. Pokemon is going for a cel shaded style. Realistic textures wouldn't work well with that game. Monster Hunters textures look blurry by comparison, but that's honestly just a hardware limitation since it's aiming for higher end."
As far as I can tell, mesh quality hasn't been changed between the 3DS and Switch versions of MHGU, so if we are looking at total geometry of any given scene, the Switch version should be representative. Textures of course are better, but that is a given since the reason why developers go with cel-shading in the first place is because it goes well with lower-resolution textures.
"Bold 2: The first picture I chose is from the character creator screen. Not "normal" gameplay. Also, Pokemon Sword and Shield do not swap out models for in-engine cutscenes. Thats why your character is always wearing the same clothes that you've styled them in. This complaint is invalid as it isn't true."
I never intended to suggest that the cutscenes in Pokemon are pre-rendered. What my point was -- was that a cutscene is going to show the best asset quality and asset density of a game because 1. the camera is limited and therefore render-loads are reduced to the small-scoped visible scene and 2. the developer has control over asset density within this limited camera view. So a scene like this looks much better than the average scene in Sword and Shield precisely because it is scripted, is indoors, and if it didn't it would be very noticeable.
I can do the same thing with MHGU. Here is a scripted in-game sequence. Notice that the asset density and quality is much better than usual for that game.
"Bold 3: You never mentioned average asset quality. But regardless, I showed you how insignificant assets are incredibly low texture low polygon even in the remaster for MHGU. They are much better in Sword and Shield. The only thing I'd agree with you that Monster Hunter has over Sword and Shield is level design, but that's not a technical limitation but an artistic one."
When you make the bolded statement, what are you basing it on? For example, when Sword and Shield released the game was data mined and polygon counts for many Pokemon were shown to be the exact same as in Sun and Moon. This isn't as bad as it sounds because the asset density of any given scene in Sword and Shield is better than Sun and Moon (you don't have 2d backdrops in battles, the battle field isn't a circle with a small radius, etc) but when looking at the actual wireframes I am not seeing what you see here.
There are about 5,000-10,000 polygons in any single Pokemon/character model in the 3DS era games and Pokemon Sword/Shield.
Comparatively Monster Hunter monsters in Monster Hunter Tri (which should be similar to Generations Ultimate as assets are reused between Monster Hunter games, like they are in Pokemon games) are about 10,000 - 15,000 polygons with characters and minor enemies having about 6,000 - 8,000 polygons -- roughly similar to Pokemon Sword and Shields characters but with a higher maximum. Similar can be said of Monster Hunter Stories and other 3DS games. Compare that to say Daisy in Mario Tennis Aces who has 20,000 polygons or Morag from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 who has 17,000 polygons. This is what you should expect for a character in a Switch game. What then matters is asset density (how many polygons in a given render-load.) This is what I mean when I say Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate and Pokemon Sword are roughly comparable.
Source for character polygon counts: Download the models from here and open them up in 3D Paint, switch to wireframe. https://www.models-resource.com/
"Bold 5: I'm not sure why you think that camera panning is what makes the game better on a technical level. That's like saying Pokemon Stadium looks better than Sun and Moon."
Camera panning is important because limited camera perspectives allow one to incorporate many tricks to get away with much lower model density and to reduce the render-load. For example, in Sun and Moon you have pretty much just the character models and a small circular field being rendered. Not much else. In the Gamecube games there are more polygons beyond the Pokemon being rendered (as it is fully 3D.) This means that even though the Pokemon have fewer polygons in the Gamecube games (about 3-5 times fewer) the actual render has more assets in it, meaning total polygon count is probably roughly the same in any given scene.
"It's camera also pans. Look at the Eevee I posted, then look at the Eevee model that is in Sun and Moon. If you think the former looks better then we aren't having an honest discussion.
I didn't say the camera didn't move at all, my point was that the degrees of freedom in Sun and Moon are much fewer than in the GameCube games and this is for a reason. Compare the respective motions of the cameras in these two battle scenes. Consider that the total scene is almost always present in XD while Moon switches to blank back-drops as the Pokémon animate attacks. When that happens, pretty much the only thing being rendered is the Pokemon model. Also a good moment to look at how limited animations are in the newer Pokemon titles.
Bold 6: Polygonal models for Sun and Moon are impressive on a technical level. Textures aren't very impressive, but it works with the art style regardless. Here are comparisons, it was difficult finding an Eevee one for Sun and Moon via Citra, so we have to deal with 1080p compressed, but all other pictures are 4K compressed."
In the characters I can say they are about par for the course for a 3DS game. Most 3DS games have characters in the 5000 - 10,000 polygon range. I don't agree if we are talking about total polygons rendered though. While characters have a normal number of polygons Game-Freak uses tricks to reduce the polygon load of environments and to limit character count in active scenes. These are tricks you can't do in an Action game like Monster Hunter.
Last edited by sc94597 - on 24 August 2021