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Forums - Nintendo - What would less than 4GB RAM have meant for the Switch?

 

What would less than 4 GB RAM mean for Switch?

Hardware unit sales would... 6 24.00%
 
Hardware unit sales would've been higher 0 0%
 
Hardware unit sales would've been lower 12 48.00%
 
Hardware unit sales would've been much lower 6 24.00%
 
Other 1 4.00%
 
Total:25
Mr Puggsly on 12 June 2021
Wman1996 said:

The rumored Switch Pro will almost surely add more RAM.

But I couldn't see anyway Nintendo would've launched a hybrid platform in 2017 with more than 4 GB RAM. Nintendo hates selling hardware at a loss or merely breaking even. Loading the Switch with 6 GB or 8 GB of RAM would've been very costly to Nintendo. It would've been especially costly and difficult in a mobile device. 

The world's first smartphone with 8 GB RAM didn't even launch until 2017. Smartphones with 8 GB RAM are more affordable and common now, but they're still not the standard yet.

I don't know if there's a way to split RAM between the the tablet and dock. If there is, I suppose Nintendo could've put 4 GB RAM in the tablet and an extra 2 GB or even 4 GB in the dock.

Right, I certainly considered 4GB of RAM is respectable for a mobile device. Just pointing out more could have been very benefitical for handling modern games and cleaning up blurry textures.

Something I would love to see in a new Switch but certainly won't happen is add some of that super fast NVMe storage. Like maybe just 128GB which seems to be cheap. I would love if Switch had quick resume like the Xbox Series consoles. Perhaps Switch could even enhance games using NVMe as memory. Kinda like how demanding 7th gen consoles utilized a HDD for memory. I certainly hope they at least consider that for the next Nintendo device.



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curl-6 on 12 June 2021

I doubt it would have a major effect on sales if the Switch had missed out on "impossible ports" like Witcher 3 due to RAM limitations, but it may have had a minor effect in so much as it would've made the system seem less viable to the probably small but still significant portion of buyers who care about AAA games.

On another note, looking at what was accomplished on Wii U's 1GB of RAM in games like Xenoblade Chronicles X and BOTW, I feel like Switch exclusives so far don't seem to be maximising what can be done with 3.25 times more.



TheBraveGallade on 12 June 2021
Mr Puggsly said:
Wman1996 said:

The rumored Switch Pro will almost surely add more RAM.

But I couldn't see anyway Nintendo would've launched a hybrid platform in 2017 with more than 4 GB RAM. Nintendo hates selling hardware at a loss or merely breaking even. Loading the Switch with 6 GB or 8 GB of RAM would've been very costly to Nintendo. It would've been especially costly and difficult in a mobile device. 

The world's first smartphone with 8 GB RAM didn't even launch until 2017. Smartphones with 8 GB RAM are more affordable and common now, but they're still not the standard yet.

I don't know if there's a way to split RAM between the the tablet and dock. If there is, I suppose Nintendo could've put 4 GB RAM in the tablet and an extra 2 GB or even 4 GB in the dock.

Right, I certainly considered 4GB of RAM is respectable for a mobile device. Just pointing out more could have been very benefitical for handling modern games and cleaning up blurry textures.

Something I would love to see in a new Switch but certainly won't happen is add some of that super fast NVMe storage. Like maybe just 128GB which seems to be cheap. I would love if Switch had quick resume like the Xbox Series consoles. Perhaps Switch could even enhance games using NVMe as memory. Kinda like how demanding 7th gen consoles utilized a HDD for memory. I certainly hope they at least consider that for the next Nintendo device.

comapred to standerd flash, NVME adds a substantial amount of cost, although it could work... though using the SSD via page files would shorten the life expectancy of the drive.



Wman1996 on 13 June 2021
curl-6 said:

I doubt it would have a major effect on sales if the Switch had missed out on "impossible ports" like Witcher 3 due to RAM limitations, but it may have had a minor effect in so much as it would've made the system seem less viable to the probably small but still significant portion of buyers who care about AAA games.

On another note, looking at what was accomplished on Wii U's 1GB of RAM in games like Xenoblade Chronicles X and BOTW, I feel like Switch exclusives so far don't seem to be maximising what can be done with 3.25 times more.

Not to mention the Switch's much faster CPU. The Wii U had a slower processor than even the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Don't get me wrong, there are some Nintendo games that stand out in terms of their performance. But I wish more did push the Switch to its limits. It feels like it's AAA third-party ports that are maximizing the potential of Switch specs.

I feel like there could've been some way Nintendo could've had better resolutions for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles DE. I don't even play those in handheld mode because of how blurry they are. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

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curl-6 on 13 June 2021
Wman1996 said:
curl-6 said:

I doubt it would have a major effect on sales if the Switch had missed out on "impossible ports" like Witcher 3 due to RAM limitations, but it may have had a minor effect in so much as it would've made the system seem less viable to the probably small but still significant portion of buyers who care about AAA games.

On another note, looking at what was accomplished on Wii U's 1GB of RAM in games like Xenoblade Chronicles X and BOTW, I feel like Switch exclusives so far don't seem to be maximising what can be done with 3.25 times more.

Not to mention the Switch's much faster CPU. The Wii U had a slower processor than even the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Don't get me wrong, there are some Nintendo games that stand out in terms of their performance. But I wish more did push the Switch to its limits. It feels like it's AAA third-party ports that are maximizing the potential of Switch specs.

I feel like there could've been some way Nintendo could've had better resolutions for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles DE. I don't even play those in handheld mode because of how blurry they are. 

I feel like Witcher 3 probably wouldn't have been viable on Espresso (Wii U's CPU) and possibly also the likes of Crysis Remastered, Metro Last Light Redux, Doom 2016/Eternal, Wolfenstein II/Youngblood, etc.

It's true though that Switch exclusives don't really seem to be pushing the CPU as so far they don't seem to do much more than Wii U games did in terms of physics, NPCs, simulation, etc.

I generally agree, games like Mario Odyssey and Luigi's Mansion 3 look great and all, but it doesn't feel like the system is being maximised as much as even Wii or Wii U were. Still, it's hopefully got years left in it so maybe the best is yet to come.



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Mr Puggsly on 14 June 2021
TheBraveGallade said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Right, I certainly considered 4GB of RAM is respectable for a mobile device. Just pointing out more could have been very benefitical for handling modern games and cleaning up blurry textures.

Something I would love to see in a new Switch but certainly won't happen is add some of that super fast NVMe storage. Like maybe just 128GB which seems to be cheap. I would love if Switch had quick resume like the Xbox Series consoles. Perhaps Switch could even enhance games using NVMe as memory. Kinda like how demanding 7th gen consoles utilized a HDD for memory. I certainly hope they at least consider that for the next Nintendo device.

comapred to standerd flash, NVME adds a substantial amount of cost, although it could work... though using the SSD via page files would shorten the life expectancy of the drive.

I am no expert, but I'd be surprised if NVMe wasn't designed for that task. In theory it seems NVMe could alleviate RAM usage by quickly streaming in data as well.

Either way, I am suggesting a relatively small amount of NVMe for handling tasks, like quick resume, OS tasks, some internal storage, etc. A small amount wouldn't add significant costs per se. Even the Series S has 512GB in total at $299.



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Pemalite on 15 June 2021
Mr Puggsly said:
TheBraveGallade said:

comapred to standerd flash, NVME adds a substantial amount of cost, although it could work... though using the SSD via page files would shorten the life expectancy of the drive.

I am no expert, but I'd be surprised if NVMe wasn't designed for that task. In theory it seems NVMe could alleviate RAM usage by quickly streaming in data as well.

Either way, I am suggesting a relatively small amount of NVMe for handling tasks, like quick resume, OS tasks, some internal storage, etc. A small amount wouldn't add significant costs per se. Even the Series S has 512GB in total at $299.

NVMe drives are usually based on TLC or QLC NAND these days which has a finite amount of write cycles.
Placing a page file on it does shorten it's lifetime... Modern drives get around this issue by using wear-levelling algorithms which means the larger the drive, the better it's life expectancy.
One way to get around this is with a RAM cache... Or... SLC NAND which has much higher endurance.

Either way, the solid state drive in the Switch is more than capable of streaming assets as is.

In-fact, SSD's are hardly a requirement for streaming anything, games have been doing it for decades, even the N64 would stream texture data directly from the cart.

Wman1996 said:

Not to mention the Switch's much faster CPU. The Wii U had a slower processor than even the Xbox 360 and PS3.

More to a CPU's speed than clockspeed though.

Jaguar is technically "slower" than Cell in terms of Ghz, but they are definitely faster especially in integers.

What sets the WiiU CPU apart from the XBox 360 and Playstation 3's CPU's is that it's an Out-Of-Order design, not an in-order design, it would be like comparing Intel Core against Intel Atom in terms of CPU design philosophy.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

curl-6 on 15 June 2021
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I am no expert, but I'd be surprised if NVMe wasn't designed for that task. In theory it seems NVMe could alleviate RAM usage by quickly streaming in data as well.

Either way, I am suggesting a relatively small amount of NVMe for handling tasks, like quick resume, OS tasks, some internal storage, etc. A small amount wouldn't add significant costs per se. Even the Series S has 512GB in total at $299.

NVMe drives are usually based on TLC or QLC NAND these days which has a finite amount of write cycles.
Placing a page file on it does shorten it's lifetime... Modern drives get around this issue by using wear-levelling algorithms which means the larger the drive, the better it's life expectancy.
One way to get around this is with a RAM cache... Or... SLC NAND which has much higher endurance.

Either way, the solid state drive in the Switch is more than capable of streaming assets as is.

In-fact, SSD's are hardly a requirement for streaming anything, games have been doing it for decades, even the N64 would stream texture data directly from the cart.

Wman1996 said:

Not to mention the Switch's much faster CPU. The Wii U had a slower processor than even the Xbox 360 and PS3.

More to a CPU's speed than clockspeed though.

Jaguar is technically "slower" than Cell in terms of Ghz, but they are definitely faster especially in integers.

What sets the WiiU CPU apart from the XBox 360 and Playstation 3's CPU's is that it's an Out-Of-Order design, not an in-order design, it would be like comparing Intel Core against Intel Atom in terms of CPU design philosophy.

Out of curiosity, what games on Switch would you say are likely beyond the capabilities of Wii U's CPU?



Pemalite on 16 June 2021
curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:

NVMe drives are usually based on TLC or QLC NAND these days which has a finite amount of write cycles.
Placing a page file on it does shorten it's lifetime... Modern drives get around this issue by using wear-levelling algorithms which means the larger the drive, the better it's life expectancy.
One way to get around this is with a RAM cache... Or... SLC NAND which has much higher endurance.

Either way, the solid state drive in the Switch is more than capable of streaming assets as is.

In-fact, SSD's are hardly a requirement for streaming anything, games have been doing it for decades, even the N64 would stream texture data directly from the cart.

Wman1996 said:

Not to mention the Switch's much faster CPU. The Wii U had a slower processor than even the Xbox 360 and PS3.

More to a CPU's speed than clockspeed though.

Jaguar is technically "slower" than Cell in terms of Ghz, but they are definitely faster especially in integers.

What sets the WiiU CPU apart from the XBox 360 and Playstation 3's CPU's is that it's an Out-Of-Order design, not an in-order design, it would be like comparing Intel Core against Intel Atom in terms of CPU design philosophy.

Out of curiosity, what games on Switch would you say are likely beyond the capabilities of Wii U's CPU?

Jurassic World Evolution or Crysis Remastered.
Ironically they are some of the largest battery hogs.

Crysis has some pretty good physics happening and it's a fairly light on the threading side of the equation, so it pegs the Arm cores fairly hard... But thankfully the RISC OoO design lends itself fairly well.

First party games though like Pokemon Sword, Luigi's Mansion, Links Awakening, Mario Odyssey would all run fine on the WiiU from a technical perspective.




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Mr Puggsly on 16 June 2021
Pemalite said:

NVMe drives are usually based on TLC or QLC NAND these days which has a finite amount of write cycles.
Placing a page file on it does shorten it's lifetime... Modern drives get around this issue by using wear-levelling algorithms which means the larger the drive, the better it's life expectancy.
One way to get around this is with a RAM cache... Or... SLC NAND which has much higher endurance.

Either way, the solid state drive in the Switch is more than capable of streaming assets as is.

In-fact, SSD's are hardly a requirement for streaming anything, games have been doing it for decades, even the N64 would stream texture data directly from the cart.

In retrospect, I was not really considering how limited the other hardware in Switch is. So yeah, the streaming speeds of its current storage is fine. At best using NVMe in Switch would reduce load times for some titles.

Probably not something really worth considering until a new Switch which would have a significant specs upgrade.



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