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Forums - Politics Discussion - $5,000 anti-racist dinner parties

Wow this thread got cringy fast.



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Jaicee said:

WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS INSENSITIVE DEPICTIONS OF MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES. THESE STEREOTYPES WERE WRONG THEN AND THEY WILL STILL BE WRONG IN THE FUTURE. RATHER THAN REMOVE THIS CONTENT, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE ITS HARMFUL IMPACT, LEARN FROM IT AND SPARK CONVERSATION TO CREATE A MORE INCLUSIVE FUTURE TOGETHER.

Earlier, @Mr Puggsly wrote:

Spoiler!
I am pretty sure you're racist regardless if you do it. Woke scripture deems it so.


I just want to remind everyone that silence is violence. Anything else is complicity in genocide by the systems of white supremacy that govern our lives in the imperialist order of the United $naKKKe$ of AmeriKKKA, including the genocide directed toward Black transwomen. Check your privilege.

</more racial justice cliches>

This shit is incomprehensible to me, so I'll just ask, what in the heck are you trying to say here?



JackHandy said:

I feel like if they had kept the original name for antiracism (activism), people wouldn't care as much about it. There have always been extreme activists. Back in the day, PETA was known to be pretty over-the-top with the whole, pouring buckets of blood on people and stuff like that. That's the nature of an activist. They're extreme and obsessive about whatever it is they care about.

My only issue with activists is when they cross the line and start trampling on other people's rights. When that happens, they become the very thing they're railing against.

Actual blood or red paint?



sundid wrote:

This shit is incomprehensible to me, so I'll just ask, what in the heck are you trying to say here?

It was all sarcasm. I do that.

The main text what a joke rebuttal of Mr. Puggsly, whom I agreed with. I worked to mimic the CRT-informed terminology and tone I in fact see often on progressive blogs and forums.

I also included a fake content warning in all-caps at the start that closely mirrors ones I've actually seen of late fairly often in like new re-releases of old movies and such, or just in new content that's offensive in general, to poke fun at some of the dumber, 'appeasing' commercial responses I see.

Basically, I was making fun of PC culture.



KLAMarine said:
JackHandy said:

I feel like if they had kept the original name for antiracism (activism), people wouldn't care as much about it. There have always been extreme activists. Back in the day, PETA was known to be pretty over-the-top with the whole, pouring buckets of blood on people and stuff like that. That's the nature of an activist. They're extreme and obsessive about whatever it is they care about.

My only issue with activists is when they cross the line and start trampling on other people's rights. When that happens, they become the very thing they're railing against.

Actual blood or red paint?

I would hope fake. Otherwise, that would have been some serious hypocrisy lol.



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I'm triggered by these responses.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Look I know that I'm coming off as a tasteless bitch here (or more of one than I really am anyway). I think it may be helpful to clarify that I'm a supporter of policies ranging from the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act and the For the People Act that my party has passed through the House of Representatives to formal reparations (by which I mean cash payments) for slavery and other oppressions and disadvantages that black people have suffered in this country. I DO believe in racial justice! Let's be clear about that. I am not a conservative.

These things said though, those who've followed my posts will know by now that I've never been a big fan of the mindset behind critical race theory. I'm boring. I believe in color-blindness. I try to treat everyone the same. If that's not enough then, well, sorry. And I've also lost a lot of faith in some of the more shall we say pronounced demands we've seen emerge prominently from the 'anti-racist' movement of late, like proposals to de-fund local police departments. Those sorts of policies have, in fact, been enacted in many U.S. cities since the murder of George Floyd just over a year ago now and the main consequence has been a sustained uptick in violent crime, not the emergence of more social peace. I'm far from alone in these sentiments too, I might add. Violent crime is now the leading issue of public concern in this country and the share of the population describing race relations as a "very big problem" has dropped from 54% a year ago to 41% today. I don't feel that I'm particularly out of touch here. It's in senses like these that I find political correctness dangerous. It can cost people their lives. To that end, I think it deserves to be mocked.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 30 May 2021

Jaicee said:

I believe in color-blindness. I try to treat everyone the same. If that's not enough then, well, sorry. And I've also lost a lot of faith in some of the more shall we say pronounced demands we've seen emerge prominently from the 'anti-racist' movement of late, like proposals to de-fund local police departments. Those sorts of policies have, in fact, been enacted in many U.S. cities since the murder of George Floyd just over a year ago now and the main consequence has been a sustained uptick in violent crime, not the emergence of more social peace. I'm far from alone in these sentiments too, I might add. Violent crime is now the leading issue of public concern in this country and the share of the population describing race relations as a "very big problem" has dropped from 54% a year ago to 41% today. I don't feel that I'm particularly out of touch here. It's in senses like these that I find political correctness dangerous. It can cost people their lives. To that end, I think it deserves to be mocked.

There is nothing wrong with treating people the same. The issue with the idea of "color blindness" is that if you are blind to color, then you are unable to see the ways in which certain minorities still face discrimination and mistreatment. This doesn't seem to apply to you, as you do seem to recognize that, for example, our criminal justice system still operates with a degree of baked-in systemic racism. 

It is things like this which routinely frustrate me about these conversations. More often than not, people don't disagree with what is at the heart of these discussions, they just don't fully understand what is being said, so they fill in the blanks with their imagination and lash out when that imagined conclusion seems out of line. This isn't entirely the fault of the people making those assumptions (though people should generally figure out what they are talking about before they complain about it). The left (and especially the academic left) has a tendency to talk to itself, so someone outside of that bubble will need to do a lot of catching up. Personally, I hate this about the left and I think it is imperative that we do better.

Anyways, largely the same thing can be said of "defund the police". Defunding the police reflects the idea of shifting funding to long-term crime fighting initiatives such as improved education, housing and wages. Look at the police budget for just about any city and it will be hard to not see that decades of "tough of crime" policy has left our social systems starved for funding, and look at the actual outcomes of policing (e.g. Imprisonment increases the odds that an individual will commit further crime) to see that this "solution" is actually pretty garbage. As for the uptick in crime across the country, there is currently little evidence connecting this to changes in police funding, so I think you would be wise to either source your claim of a causal relationship, or dial back your rhetoric a touch.

That said, this likely isn't the place for discussions about how to best allocate funding to reduce crime (and even if it was, making "Defund the Police" a stand in for "political correctness" is somewhat bizarre). 

All I'm really trying to say is that most of this hand-wringing about political correctness is largely empty of substance. It is just outrage culture. People want something to be mad at which aligns with their biases and political correctness seems to have drawn the lucky lot this year...



Jaicee said:

Look I know that I'm coming off as a tasteless bitch here (or more of one than I really am anyway). I think it may be helpful to clarify that I'm a supporter of policies ranging from the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act and the For the People Act that my party has passed through the House of Representatives to formal reparations (by which I mean cash payments) for slavery and other oppressions and disadvantages that black people have suffered in this country. I DO believe in racial justice! Let's be clear about that. I am not a conservative.

These things said though, those who've followed my posts will know by now that I've never been a big fan of the mindset behind critical race theory. I'm boring. I believe in color-blindness. I try to treat everyone the same. If that's not enough then, well, sorry. And I've also lost a lot of faith in some of the more shall we say pronounced demands we've seen emerge prominently from the 'anti-racist' movement of late, like proposals to de-fund local police departments. Those sorts of policies have, in fact, been enacted in many U.S. cities since the murder of George Floyd just over a year ago now and the main consequence has been a sustained uptick in violent crime, not the emergence of more social peace. I'm far from alone in these sentiments too, I might add. Violent crime is now the leading issue of public concern in this country and the share of the population describing race relations as a "very big problem" has dropped from 54% a year ago to 41% today. I don't feel that I'm particularly out of touch here. It's in senses like these that I find political correctness dangerous. It can cost people their lives. To that end, I think it deserves to be mocked.

No need to apologize. Most people agree with you I think. Its just the loud ones who doesnt that get all the publicity.



sundin13 said:

There is nothing wrong with treating people the same. The issue with the idea of "color blindness" is that if you are blind to color, then you are unable to see the ways in which certain minorities still face discrimination and mistreatment. This doesn't seem to apply to you, as you do seem to recognize that, for example, our criminal justice system still operates with a degree of baked-in systemic racism. 

It is things like this which routinely frustrate me about these conversations. More often than not, people don't disagree with what is at the heart of these discussions, they just don't fully understand what is being said, so they fill in the blanks with their imagination and lash out when that imagined conclusion seems out of line. This isn't entirely the fault of the people making those assumptions (though people should generally figure out what they are talking about before they complain about it). The left (and especially the academic left) has a tendency to talk to itself, so someone outside of that bubble will need to do a lot of catching up. Personally, I hate this about the left and I think it is imperative that we do better.

Anyways, largely the same thing can be said of "defund the police". Defunding the police reflects the idea of shifting funding to long-term crime fighting initiatives such as improved education, housing and wages. Look at the police budget for just about any city and it will be hard to not see that decades of "tough of crime" policy has left our social systems starved for funding, and look at the actual outcomes of policing (e.g. Imprisonment increases the odds that an individual will commit further crime) to see that this "solution" is actually pretty garbage. As for the uptick in crime across the country, there is currently little evidence connecting this to changes in police funding, so I think you would be wise to either source your claim of a causal relationship, or dial back your rhetoric a touch.

That said, this likely isn't the place for discussions about how to best allocate funding to reduce crime (and even if it was, making "Defund the Police" a stand in for "political correctness" is somewhat bizarre). 

All I'm really trying to say is that most of this hand-wringing about political correctness is largely empty of substance. It is just outrage culture. People want something to be mad at which aligns with their biases and political correctness seems to have drawn the lucky lot this year...

Concerning color-blindness...I mean I don't need a college degree to figure out that white racism is a real, ongoing problem in our society. Like I said, I try to treat people the same. It's not difficult to see that not everyone is being treated the same by society writ large. It's easy to notice a contrast between your own behavior and attitudes and shit you see on TV sometimes and attitudes you find in some of your neighbors. Like no, George Floyd did not die of a heart attack. Duh! You have to want to reach conclusions like that! I'm ain't saying that white racism isn't a real problem in today's America these days because it is. It obviously is. That doesn't take a lot of research to figure out. It just takes having any degree of empathy at all for people who don't look exactly like you.

Concerning your assessment that I disagree with you on the merits of critical race theory only because I "don't fully understand" what it's saying, like I'm just too ignorant to agree with you or something, nah I don't think so. The essence isn't difficult to understand given five minutes of education therein. Critical theory is a Western academic variety of Marxism (literally, not hyperbolically) and critical race theory is a racialized version thereof wherein the focus is shifted away from class conflict to race conflict instead. It's really not that difficult to grasp the heart and soul of it. I'm not a Marxist. I find CRT just as impulsively repressive and simplistic in its sweeping conclusions about society as other varieties of Marxism. For example, when a black person attacks an Asian-American, guess who's fault that is according to CRT's more passionate subscribers? You guessed it: it's somehow "white supremacy". Like it's somehow my fault. Why? Because in this brilliant theory of the case, all white people are racist bigots  because they're white (you read the OP) and no one else can be. It's really not that difficult to understand said message or to rationally find it disagreeable. Most people, if anything, might support critical race theory based on ignorance of its contents, assuming it's just benign education on what race discrimination looks like in the real world, only to discover a much larger message therein they object to later, on further learning. Once they learn a thing or two about it though, they more often than not object unless they're too young and naive to know better, which is why CRT "education" has emerged as a winning issue for the Republicans who favor banning it in swing districts here in my state already.

Likewise, one has to get up pretty early in the morning to see no connection between CRT and demands like that for de-funding local police departments. And like the survey I linked to before shows, most people do, in fact, lay at least part of the blame for the sustained uptick in violent crime we've seen over the last year in particular on the 'anti-racist' movement itself. Now most people can just be wrong, true and fair enough, but I really don't think they are. You petition me for a source on this. I've got plenty of evidence, but the most extensive, factual, well-substantiated, biting, and frankly convincing argument that liberal softness on crime -- cutting funding for local police forces and not prosecuting crimes -- is the root cause of this very new problem I've found is this one by Tucker Carlson. Whatever we think of Mr. Carlson more broadly (I certainly have my opinions), I find that nonetheless sometimes conservatives like him have a valid point or two that's tough to ignore even though they're conservatives and this is one of those cases. Policy proposals like de-funding police departments get people killed, and I don't mean mostly white people.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 08 June 2021