By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - $5,000 anti-racist dinner parties

Jaicee said:

Concerning color-blindness...I mean I don't need a college degree to figure out that white racism is a real, ongoing problem in our society. Like I said, I try to treat people the same. It's not difficult to see that not everyone is being treated the same by society writ large. It's easy to notice a contrast between your own behavior and attitudes and shit you see on TV sometimes and attitudes you find in some of your neighbors. Like no, George Floyd did not die of a heart attack. Duh! You have to want to reach conclusions like that! I'm ain't saying that white racism isn't a real problem in today's America these days because it is. It obviously is. That doesn't take a lot of research to figure out. It just takes having any degree of empathy at all for people who don't look exactly like you.

Concerning your assessment that I disagree with you on the merits of critical race theory only because I "don't fully understand" what its saying, like I'm just too ignorant to agree with you or something, nah I don't think so. The essence isn't difficult to understand given five minutes of education therein. Critical theory is a Western academic variety of Marxism (literally, not hyperbolically) and critical race theory is a racialized version thereof wherein the focus is shifted away from class conflict to race conflict instead. It's really not that difficult to grasp the heart and soul of it. I'm not a Marxist. I find CRT just as impulsively repressive and simplistic in its sweeping conclusions about society as other varieties of Marxism. For example, when a black person attacks an Asian-American, guess who's fault that is according to CRT's more passionate subscribers? You guessed it: its somehow "white supremacy". Like it's somehow my fault. Why? Because in this brilliant theory of the case, all white people are racist bigots  because they're white (you read the OP) and no one else can be. It's really not that difficult to understand said message or to rationally find it disagreeable. Most people, if anything, might support critical race theory based on ignorance of its contents, assuming it's just benign education on what race discrimination looks like in the real world, only to discover a much larger message therein they object to later, on further learning. Once they learn a thing or two about it though, they more often than not object unless they're too young and naive to know better, which is why CRT "education" has emerged as a winning issue for the Republicans who favor banning it in swing districts here in my state already.

Likewise, one has to get up pretty early in the morning to see no connection between CRT and demands like that for de-funding local police departments. And like the survey I linked to before shows, most people do, in fact, lay at least part of the blame for the sustained uptick in violent crime we've seen over the last year in particular on the 'anti-racist' movement itself. Now most people can just be wrong, true and fair enough, but I really don't think they are. You petition me for a source on this. I've got plenty of evidence, but the most extensive, factual, well-substantiated, biting, and frankly convincing argument that liberal softness on crime -- cutting funding for local police forces and not prosecuting crimes -- is the root cause of this very new problem I've found is this one by Tucker Carlson. Whatever we think of Mr. Carlson more broadly (I certainly have my opinions), I find that nonetheless sometimes conservatives like him have a valid point or two that's tough to ignore even though they're conservatives and this is one of those cases. Policy proposals like de-funding police departments get people killed, and I don't mean mostly white people.

Is it really so far-fetched that White Supremacy would be at the root of Black-on-Asian violence? 

Let's break things down real quick. When we hear "white supremacy" we largely think of individuals who hold the belief that whites are inherently better and that they should have the power in society, but that isn't what we are talking about here. In this context, White Supremacy refers to the system of values in our society which places traits commonly associated with whiteness above traits associated with non-white groups. This can be something as simply as valuing light skin tones over darker skin tones, or something more cultural such as valuing a nuclear family set-up over other types of family structures. It also speaks to the series of beliefs and ideas which have largely been created and perpetuated by white individuals in power (more on this below).

This series of beliefs and values is passed down throughout the culture, regardless of race. Let's look at an example real quick:

It is largely through the power of white supremacy that the anti-Mexican sentiment that "the immigrants are taking our jobs" arose. Is it really that far-fetched to assume that a black individual who is unemployed, or under-employed may internalize this idea and develope animosity towards the Mexican population? And if they did, what would be the root cause? I would argue that the root cause is two fold: The structures that caused the individual to be unemployed or underemployed (often White Supremacy) and the structures which created this messaging (often White Supremacy). 

Because these values and beliefs emerge from power, it is often a pretty safe assumption that these broad, culture-wide sentiments can be attributed to White supremacy to at least some degree.

Now, what about Anti-Asian racism in the era of covid? I feel like you would pose little objection to the belief that this largely emerged from whites in power, be they White Republicans in politics, or white talking heads on Fox News, but I'll provide a source anyways: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2020.1839114

So, when a black person commits anti-Asian violence because of the beliefs they hold about the victim's role in the coronavirus, what stands at the root of this? Largely, racist sentiments perpetuated by whites in power and internalized by other communities. And the history of Black-Asian tensions have been going on for much longer than Covid. It is largely through white racism that a sense of competition between minority groups emerged (similar to the tension with Mexican immigrants described above). This article breaks down some of the history of Black-Asian tensions pretty well, but you can also look into the "model minority myth" if you want to do further reading: https://www.vox.com/22321234/black-asian-american-tensions-solidarity-history

Now, does this mean that you are to blame, or that any of this is a criticism of you personally? Of course not. This type of defensive attitude is something I see all too often and it is altogether misplaced. I work in the sciences. One of the most important things that we learn is about cognitive biases. It doesn't make me evil or bad or stupid for these biases to exist within my head. It is simply a part of human nature. However, it is through learning and understanding in which I am able to ensure that I don't act upon these biases. The same thing applies for racial biases. It doesn't make you a bad person to have biases in your head. Everyone does. That is the power of white supremacy. However, learning and understanding can help immensely in not just ensuring you aren't perpetuating White supremacy, but in dismantling it. 

As for your final point, I'll just say quickly that it should be telling that seemingly your best sources to back up your claims that the "Defund the Police" movement is causally linked to increases in violent crime is how some people feel and Tucker Carlson... I've said before that some people have demonstrated that they do not value truth and as such they are not worth listening to. Tucker is at the top of that list. If you wish to prove this point, you'll have to produce a better source than that. And this post is getting long, but I'll provide a quick source on why I don't believe this claim is particularly well supported: Crime has risen even in cities that didn't decrease funding for police. In Democratic-led cities, the homicide rate increased 36.2%, while in Republican-led cities, the homicide rate increased 35.6%. Further, while this has been a particularly loud issue, few cities have actually decreased their police budgets, and many of the ones that have didn't go into effect immediately. https://www.salon.com/2021/02/01/did-defund-the-police-lead-to-an-increase-in-murder-almost-certainly-not/

I don't want to say it, but it certainly seems like the power of white supremacy may be leading people to make improper assumptions about the effect of decreasing police funding, in order to keep funding up for one of the most powerful perpetuators of systemic racism...



Around the Network
sundin13 said:

It is largely through the power of white supremacy that the anti-Mexican sentiment that "the immigrants are taking our jobs" arose. Is it really that far-fetched to assume that a black individual who is unemployed, or under-employed may internalize this idea and develope animosity towards the Mexican population? And if they did, what would be the root cause? I would argue that the root cause is two fold: The structures that caused the individual to be unemployed or underemployed (often White Supremacy) and the structures which created this messaging (often White Supremacy).

You Americans got it wrong, should be defund the scientists not defund the police. From I read about about CRT, it believes that all form of racialism is because of white supremcy, so you can explain to me how South koreans being racist towards germans haft to do with white supremcy.

Luckily is just Americans that believes in CRT.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Trumpstyle said:

You Americans got it wrong, should be defund the scientists not defund the police. From I read about about CRT, it believes that all form of racialism is because of white supremcy, so you can explain to me how South koreans being racist towards germans haft to do with white supremcy.

Luckily is just Americans that believes in CRT.

Critical race theory predominantly speaks to the systems and structures of the United States. As such, it does not make sense to uncritically attempt to use what is true in America to speak to the racial structures every other country. As such, this criticism is fairly nonsensical. 



sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

Concerning color-blindness...I mean I don't need a college degree to figure out that white racism is a real, ongoing problem in our society. Like I said, I try to treat people the same. It's not difficult to see that not everyone is being treated the same by society writ large. It's easy to notice a contrast between your own behavior and attitudes and shit you see on TV sometimes and attitudes you find in some of your neighbors. Like no, George Floyd did not die of a heart attack. Duh! You have to want to reach conclusions like that! I'm ain't saying that white racism isn't a real problem in today's America these days because it is. It obviously is. That doesn't take a lot of research to figure out. It just takes having any degree of empathy at all for people who don't look exactly like you.

Concerning your assessment that I disagree with you on the merits of critical race theory only because I "don't fully understand" what its saying, like I'm just too ignorant to agree with you or something, nah I don't think so. The essence isn't difficult to understand given five minutes of education therein. Critical theory is a Western academic variety of Marxism (literally, not hyperbolically) and critical race theory is a racialized version thereof wherein the focus is shifted away from class conflict to race conflict instead. It's really not that difficult to grasp the heart and soul of it. I'm not a Marxist. I find CRT just as impulsively repressive and simplistic in its sweeping conclusions about society as other varieties of Marxism. For example, when a black person attacks an Asian-American, guess who's fault that is according to CRT's more passionate subscribers? You guessed it: its somehow "white supremacy". Like it's somehow my fault. Why? Because in this brilliant theory of the case, all white people are racist bigots  because they're white (you read the OP) and no one else can be. It's really not that difficult to understand said message or to rationally find it disagreeable. Most people, if anything, might support critical race theory based on ignorance of its contents, assuming it's just benign education on what race discrimination looks like in the real world, only to discover a much larger message therein they object to later, on further learning. Once they learn a thing or two about it though, they more often than not object unless they're too young and naive to know better, which is why CRT "education" has emerged as a winning issue for the Republicans who favor banning it in swing districts here in my state already.

Likewise, one has to get up pretty early in the morning to see no connection between CRT and demands like that for de-funding local police departments. And like the survey I linked to before shows, most people do, in fact, lay at least part of the blame for the sustained uptick in violent crime we've seen over the last year in particular on the 'anti-racist' movement itself. Now most people can just be wrong, true and fair enough, but I really don't think they are. You petition me for a source on this. I've got plenty of evidence, but the most extensive, factual, well-substantiated, biting, and frankly convincing argument that liberal softness on crime -- cutting funding for local police forces and not prosecuting crimes -- is the root cause of this very new problem I've found is this one by Tucker Carlson. Whatever we think of Mr. Carlson more broadly (I certainly have my opinions), I find that nonetheless sometimes conservatives like him have a valid point or two that's tough to ignore even though they're conservatives and this is one of those cases. Policy proposals like de-funding police departments get people killed, and I don't mean mostly white people.

Is it really so far-fetched that White Supremacy would be at the root of Black-on-Asian violence? 

Let's break things down real quick. When we hear "white supremacy" we largely think of individuals who hold the belief that whites are inherently better and that they should have the power in society, but that isn't what we are talking about here. In this context, White Supremacy refers to the system of values in our society which places traits commonly associated with whiteness above traits associated with non-white groups. This can be something as simply as valuing light skin tones over darker skin tones, or something more cultural such as valuing a nuclear family set-up over other types of family structures. It also speaks to the series of beliefs and ideas which have largely been created and perpetuated by white individuals in power (more on this below).

This series of beliefs and values is passed down throughout the culture, regardless of race. Let's look at an example real quick:

It is largely through the power of white supremacy that the anti-Mexican sentiment that "the immigrants are taking our jobs" arose. Is it really that far-fetched to assume that a black individual who is unemployed, or under-employed may internalize this idea and develope animosity towards the Mexican population? And if they did, what would be the root cause? I would argue that the root cause is two fold: The structures that caused the individual to be unemployed or underemployed (often White Supremacy) and the structures which created this messaging (often White Supremacy). 

Because these values and beliefs emerge from power, it is often a pretty safe assumption that these broad, culture-wide sentiments can be attributed to White supremacy to at least some degree.

Now, what about Anti-Asian racism in the era of covid? I feel like you would pose little objection to the belief that this largely emerged from whites in power, be they White Republicans in politics, or white talking heads on Fox News, but I'll provide a source anyways: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2020.1839114

So, when a black person commits anti-Asian violence because of the beliefs they hold about the victim's role in the coronavirus, what stands at the root of this? Largely, racist sentiments perpetuated by whites in power and internalized by other communities. And the history of Black-Asian tensions have been going on for much longer than Covid. It is largely through white racism that a sense of competition between minority groups emerged (similar to the tension with Mexican immigrants described above). This article breaks down some of the history of Black-Asian tensions pretty well, but you can also look into the "model minority myth" if you want to do further reading: https://www.vox.com/22321234/black-asian-american-tensions-solidarity-history

Now, does this mean that you are to blame, or that any of this is a criticism of you personally? Of course not. This type of defensive attitude is something I see all too often and it is altogether misplaced. I work in the sciences. One of the most important things that we learn is about cognitive biases. It doesn't make me evil or bad or stupid for these biases to exist within my head. It is simply a part of human nature. However, it is through learning and understanding in which I am able to ensure that I don't act upon these biases. The same thing applies for racial biases. It doesn't make you a bad person to have biases in your head. Everyone does. That is the power of white supremacy. However, learning and understanding can help immensely in not just ensuring you aren't perpetuating White supremacy, but in dismantling it. 

As for your final point, I'll just say quickly that it should be telling that seemingly your best sources to back up your claims that the "Defund the Police" movement is causally linked to increases in violent crime is how some people feel and Tucker Carlson... I've said before that some people have demonstrated that they do not value truth and as such they are not worth listening to. Tucker is at the top of that list. If you wish to prove this point, you'll have to produce a better source than that. And this post is getting long, but I'll provide a quick source on why I don't believe this claim is particularly well supported: Crime has risen even in cities that didn't decrease funding for police. In Democratic-led cities, the homicide rate increased 36.2%, while in Republican-led cities, the homicide rate increased 35.6%. Further, while this has been a particularly loud issue, few cities have actually decreased their police budgets, and many of the ones that have didn't go into effect immediately. https://www.salon.com/2021/02/01/did-defund-the-police-lead-to-an-increase-in-murder-almost-certainly-not/

I don't want to say it, but it certainly seems like the power of white supremacy may be leading people to make improper assumptions about the effect of decreasing police funding, in order to keep funding up for one of the most powerful perpetuators of systemic racism...

Due to Covid, the revenues in major cities have fallen pretty dramatically and unlike the federal government, state governments are required to balance their budgets. So, police departments, being expensive, had their budgets cut. Which predictably leads to higher crime rates.

But when most people suggest defunding the police, they are not suggesting simply cutting the budget of the police, but cutting the budget allotted to current policing and adding to other programs aimed at reducing crime. I.e. addiction rehabilitation, people trained in de-escalation accompanying police officers, mental health programs, programs aimed at supporting convicts post release to prevent recidivism, etc, etc. Things that have been effective in other countries.

Whether or not such things would work in America is unclear, because that is not what is being done. What has been done is simply cutting police budgets without anything to replace them. That's probably not going to help unless police literally have a negative crime deterring value, which is a position I don't think many serious people actually hold. 

Trumpstyle said:
sundin13 said:

It is largely through the power of white supremacy that the anti-Mexican sentiment that "the immigrants are taking our jobs" arose. Is it really that far-fetched to assume that a black individual who is unemployed, or under-employed may internalize this idea and develope animosity towards the Mexican population? And if they did, what would be the root cause? I would argue that the root cause is two fold: The structures that caused the individual to be unemployed or underemployed (often White Supremacy) and the structures which created this messaging (often White Supremacy).

You Americans got it wrong, should be defund the scientists not defund the police. From I read about about CRT, it believes that all form of racialism is because of white supremcy, so you can explain to me how South koreans being racist towards germans haft to do with white supremcy.

Luckily is just Americans that believes in CRT.

In that case, maybe you should read more about about CRT before commenting, because you don't seem to understand it very well.

Critical Race Theory suggests that the dominant culture is largely responsible for societal biases. In America, the dominant culture is white. In South Korea, it is not. Has any serious person (as in a respected source and not a random blogger) suggested that white people are responsible for South Korean attitudes towards Germans? If not, then that's a strawman argument. 

If you can find any kind of scholarly work that suggests only white people and societies run predominately by white people are capable of racism, please show me that. I have taken a few classes and done some readings with Professors that I'm fairly certain would identify themselves as critical race theorists, and they have typically pointed to examples of racism in other, often non-white, countries as points of comparisons to understand the racial dynamics in America. 



JWeinCom said:

Due to Covid, the revenues in major cities have fallen pretty dramatically and unlike the federal government, state governments are required to balance their budgets. So, police departments, being expensive, had their budgets cut. Which predictably leads to higher crime rates.

But when most people suggest defunding the police, they are not suggesting simply cutting the budget of the police, but cutting the budget allotted to current policing and adding to other programs aimed at reducing crime. I.e. addiction rehabilitation, people trained in de-escalation accompanying police officers, mental health programs, programs aimed at supporting convicts post release to prevent recidivism, etc, etc. Things that have been effective in other countries.

Whether or not such things would work in America is unclear, because that is not what is being done. What has been done is simply cutting police budgets without anything to replace them. That's probably not going to help unless police literally have a negative crime deterring value, which is a position I don't think many serious people actually hold. 

From what I've found, changes in revenue are also a poor indicator of changes in crime rates. States that saw increased revenue in 2020 such as Washington and Virginia (Source: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2021/02/17/pandemic-drives-historic-state-tax-revenue-drop ) still saw increases in violent crime in 2020. The correlation tends to be pretty murky and historical evidence poorly supports the hypothesis that this increase in crime can be blamed on declining police budgets. While I agree that police have some positive value in deterring crime, police budgets right now are so immensely bloated that I wouldn't be surprised if properly planned cuts could be made without causing a significant change in crime rates (however, properly planned is key here. Like you said, we need a plan, and we need to expand our public safety infrastructure and I will acknowledge that many of the proposals I have seen have done a poor job of figuring out the how of changing the funding levels of the police). 

Also, I think it is important to note that we do have evidence that other means of crime reduction would work in America. There are plenty of American studies which show that improving housing reduces crime and that improving schooling reduces crime. We just refuse to take action on these fronts because we would rather dump money into our police forces...



Around the Network
sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

Due to Covid, the revenues in major cities have fallen pretty dramatically and unlike the federal government, state governments are required to balance their budgets. So, police departments, being expensive, had their budgets cut. Which predictably leads to higher crime rates.

But when most people suggest defunding the police, they are not suggesting simply cutting the budget of the police, but cutting the budget allotted to current policing and adding to other programs aimed at reducing crime. I.e. addiction rehabilitation, people trained in de-escalation accompanying police officers, mental health programs, programs aimed at supporting convicts post release to prevent recidivism, etc, etc. Things that have been effective in other countries.

Whether or not such things would work in America is unclear, because that is not what is being done. What has been done is simply cutting police budgets without anything to replace them. That's probably not going to help unless police literally have a negative crime deterring value, which is a position I don't think many serious people actually hold. 

From what I've found, changes in revenue are also a poor indicator of changes in crime rates. States that saw increased revenue in 2020 such as Washington and Virginia (Source: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2021/02/17/pandemic-drives-historic-state-tax-revenue-drop ) still saw increases in violent crime in 2020. The correlation tends to be pretty murky and historical evidence poorly supports the hypothesis that this increase in crime can be blamed on declining police budgets. While I agree that police have some positive value in deterring crime, police budgets right now are so immensely bloated that I wouldn't be surprised if properly planned cuts could be made without causing a significant change in crime rates (however, properly planned is key here. Like you said, we need a plan, and we need to expand our public safety infrastructure and I will acknowledge that many of the proposals I have seen have done a poor job of figuring out the how of changing the funding levels of the police). 

Also, I think it is important to note that we do have evidence that other means of crime reduction would work in America. There are plenty of American studies which show that improving housing reduces crime and that improving schooling reduces crime. We just refuse to take action on these fronts because we would rather dump money into our police forces...

I should have probably chose my words better since correlation does not imply causation. I thought that was a fairly logical connection, but I could be wrong. Checked out the Salon article which might indicate that I've been buying into some dubious sources and believed the police budget cuts were more drastic then they really were.

As for police budgets, that might depend where you are. In NYC I don't think the police presence/training is up to snuff based on what I know which is admittedly limited to news sources and knowing a few cops and DAs. That doesn't necessarily mean the budget is bloated because it could be that tons of money is being spent, but not spent wisely. Still, if the current level of funding is not sufficient, due to incompetent budgeting or not, I don't think a better job will be done with less money. Which... sort of creates an incentive to be inefficient but I'm not sure how to resolve that. 

The only long term solution (in so far as it is possible) to crime, as opposed to policing which is a bandaid, is making sure that people are generally having their needs met and have realistic pathways to success. I'm not especially optimistic that's feasible with the current state of the government and the people. 

But as far as we're only throwing money at policing, I'm not sure that's accurate. In NYC, the education budget is about 2-4 times hire than the police budget (it's a little hard to qualify because there are some costs that are classified as part of one department but are really used for the benefit of another). There's also federal and state funding for education, and I'm not sure how much of that there is for the police. Considering every child needs an education, I'd rather the numbers be further apart, but we're spending a lot on education. Whether that money is being spend wisely is another matter (based on my experience as a teacher I'd say not).



sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

Concerning color-blindness...I mean I don't need a college degree to figure out that white racism is a real, ongoing problem in our society. Like I said, I try to treat people the same. It's not difficult to see that not everyone is being treated the same by society writ large. It's easy to notice a contrast between your own behavior and attitudes and shit you see on TV sometimes and attitudes you find in some of your neighbors. Like no, George Floyd did not die of a heart attack. Duh! You have to want to reach conclusions like that! I'm ain't saying that white racism isn't a real problem in today's America these days because it is. It obviously is. That doesn't take a lot of research to figure out. It just takes having any degree of empathy at all for people who don't look exactly like you.

Concerning your assessment that I disagree with you on the merits of critical race theory only because I "don't fully understand" what its saying, like I'm just too ignorant to agree with you or something, nah I don't think so. The essence isn't difficult to understand given five minutes of education therein. Critical theory is a Western academic variety of Marxism (literally, not hyperbolically) and critical race theory is a racialized version thereof wherein the focus is shifted away from class conflict to race conflict instead. It's really not that difficult to grasp the heart and soul of it. I'm not a Marxist. I find CRT just as impulsively repressive and simplistic in its sweeping conclusions about society as other varieties of Marxism. For example, when a black person attacks an Asian-American, guess who's fault that is according to CRT's more passionate subscribers? You guessed it: its somehow "white supremacy". Like it's somehow my fault. Why? Because in this brilliant theory of the case, all white people are racist bigots  because they're white (you read the OP) and no one else can be. It's really not that difficult to understand said message or to rationally find it disagreeable. Most people, if anything, might support critical race theory based on ignorance of its contents, assuming it's just benign education on what race discrimination looks like in the real world, only to discover a much larger message therein they object to later, on further learning. Once they learn a thing or two about it though, they more often than not object unless they're too young and naive to know better, which is why CRT "education" has emerged as a winning issue for the Republicans who favor banning it in swing districts here in my state already.

Likewise, one has to get up pretty early in the morning to see no connection between CRT and demands like that for de-funding local police departments. And like the survey I linked to before shows, most people do, in fact, lay at least part of the blame for the sustained uptick in violent crime we've seen over the last year in particular on the 'anti-racist' movement itself. Now most people can just be wrong, true and fair enough, but I really don't think they are. You petition me for a source on this. I've got plenty of evidence, but the most extensive, factual, well-substantiated, biting, and frankly convincing argument that liberal softness on crime -- cutting funding for local police forces and not prosecuting crimes -- is the root cause of this very new problem I've found is this one by Tucker Carlson. Whatever we think of Mr. Carlson more broadly (I certainly have my opinions), I find that nonetheless sometimes conservatives like him have a valid point or two that's tough to ignore even though they're conservatives and this is one of those cases. Policy proposals like de-funding police departments get people killed, and I don't mean mostly white people.

Is it really so far-fetched that White Supremacy would be at the root of Black-on-Asian violence? 

Let's break things down real quick. When we hear "white supremacy" we largely think of individuals who hold the belief that whites are inherently better and that they should have the power in society, but that isn't what we are talking about here. In this context, White Supremacy refers to the system of values in our society which places traits commonly associated with whiteness above traits associated with non-white groups. This can be something as simply as valuing light skin tones over darker skin tones, or something more cultural such as valuing a nuclear family set-up over other types of family structures. It also speaks to the series of beliefs and ideas which have largely been created and perpetuated by white individuals in power (more on this below).

This series of beliefs and values is passed down throughout the culture, regardless of race. Let's look at an example real quick:

It is largely through the power of white supremacy that the anti-Mexican sentiment that "the immigrants are taking our jobs" arose. Is it really that far-fetched to assume that a black individual who is unemployed, or under-employed may internalize this idea and develope animosity towards the Mexican population? And if they did, what would be the root cause? I would argue that the root cause is two fold: The structures that caused the individual to be unemployed or underemployed (often White Supremacy) and the structures which created this messaging (often White Supremacy). 

Because these values and beliefs emerge from power, it is often a pretty safe assumption that these broad, culture-wide sentiments can be attributed to White supremacy to at least some degree.

Now, what about Anti-Asian racism in the era of covid? I feel like you would pose little objection to the belief that this largely emerged from whites in power, be they White Republicans in politics, or white talking heads on Fox News, but I'll provide a source anyways: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2020.1839114

So, when a black person commits anti-Asian violence because of the beliefs they hold about the victim's role in the coronavirus, what stands at the root of this? Largely, racist sentiments perpetuated by whites in power and internalized by other communities. And the history of Black-Asian tensions have been going on for much longer than Covid. It is largely through white racism that a sense of competition between minority groups emerged (similar to the tension with Mexican immigrants described above). This article breaks down some of the history of Black-Asian tensions pretty well, but you can also look into the "model minority myth" if you want to do further reading: https://www.vox.com/22321234/black-asian-american-tensions-solidarity-history

Now, does this mean that you are to blame, or that any of this is a criticism of you personally? Of course not. This type of defensive attitude is something I see all too often and it is altogether misplaced. I work in the sciences. One of the most important things that we learn is about cognitive biases. It doesn't make me evil or bad or stupid for these biases to exist within my head. It is simply a part of human nature. However, it is through learning and understanding in which I am able to ensure that I don't act upon these biases. The same thing applies for racial biases. It doesn't make you a bad person to have biases in your head. Everyone does. That is the power of white supremacy. However, learning and understanding can help immensely in not just ensuring you aren't perpetuating White supremacy, but in dismantling it. 

As for your final point, I'll just say quickly that it should be telling that seemingly your best sources to back up your claims that the "Defund the Police" movement is causally linked to increases in violent crime is how some people feel and Tucker Carlson... I've said before that some people have demonstrated that they do not value truth and as such they are not worth listening to. Tucker is at the top of that list. If you wish to prove this point, you'll have to produce a better source than that. And this post is getting long, but I'll provide a quick source on why I don't believe this claim is particularly well supported: Crime has risen even in cities that didn't decrease funding for police. In Democratic-led cities, the homicide rate increased 36.2%, while in Republican-led cities, the homicide rate increased 35.6%. Further, while this has been a particularly loud issue, few cities have actually decreased their police budgets, and many of the ones that have didn't go into effect immediately. https://www.salon.com/2021/02/01/did-defund-the-police-lead-to-an-increase-in-murder-almost-certainly-not/

I don't want to say it, but it certainly seems like the power of white supremacy may be leading people to make improper assumptions about the effect of decreasing police funding, in order to keep funding up for one of the most powerful perpetuators of systemic racism...

"Is it really so far-fetched that White Supremacy would be at the root of Black-on-Asian violence?"

>I'd be more prepared to blame black supremacy for black-on-Asian violence.

I like to hold people accountable for their own actions as well as beliefs.



KLAMarine said:

"Is it really so far-fetched that White Supremacy would be at the root of Black-on-Asian violence?"

>I'd be more prepared to blame black supremacy for black-on-Asian violence.

I like to hold people accountable for their own actions as well as beliefs.

Did you happen to read my post? 

If so, feel free to actually make an argument. If not, why are you responding to me?



Jaicee said:

Look I know that I'm coming off as a tasteless bitch here (or more of one than I really am anyway). I think it may be helpful to clarify that I'm a supporter of policies ranging from the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act and the For the People Act that my party has passed through the House of Representatives to formal reparations (by which I mean cash payments) for slavery and other oppressions and disadvantages that black people have suffered in this country. I DO believe in racial justice! Let's be clear about that. I am not a conservative.

These things said though, those who've followed my posts will know by now that I've never been a big fan of the mindset behind critical race theory. I'm boring. I believe in color-blindness. I try to treat everyone the same. If that's not enough then, well, sorry. And I've also lost a lot of faith in some of the more shall we say pronounced demands we've seen emerge prominently from the 'anti-racist' movement of late, like proposals to de-fund local police departments. Those sorts of policies have, in fact, been enacted in many U.S. cities since the murder of George Floyd just over a year ago now and the main consequence has been a sustained uptick in violent crime, not the emergence of more social peace. I'm far from alone in these sentiments too, I might add. Violent crime is now the leading issue of public concern in this country and the share of the population describing race relations as a "very big problem" has dropped from 54% a year ago to 41% today. I don't feel that I'm particularly out of touch here. It's in senses like these that I find political correctness dangerous. It can cost people their lives. To that end, I think it deserves to be mocked.

Don't worry. Much like the late 60's, this extremist sort of mindset is bound to burn itself out. A society can not sustain this sort of vitriol and divisiveness for very long without tearing itself apart. The main players are going to get old, just like the hippies. They're going to mellow out, find jobs, raise families and move on from all of this over-the-top stuff. Some of the things they care about now will change us for the better. Most of the things will completely vanish. 

Either way, just know that it's temporary. Try to tune it out as best you can and let it run its natural course. Before long, it'll all just be a distant, mind bending memory.



sundin13 said:

Is it really so far-fetched that White Supremacy would be at the root of Black-on-Asian violence?

Let's break things down real quick. When we hear "white supremacy" we largely think of individuals who hold the belief that whites are inherently better and that they should have the power in society, but that isn't what we are talking about here. In this context, White Supremacy refers to the system of values in our society which places traits commonly associated with whiteness above traits associated with non-white groups. This can be something as simply as valuing light skin tones over darker skin tones, or something more cultural such as valuing a nuclear family set-up over other types of family structures. It also speaks to the series of beliefs and ideas which have largely been created and perpetuated by white individuals in power (more on this below).

(...)

Because these values and beliefs emerge from power, it is often a pretty safe assumption that these broad, culture-wide sentiments can be attributed to White supremacy to at least some degree.

Now, what about Anti-Asian racism in the era of covid? I feel like you would pose little objection to the belief that this largely emerged from whites in power, be they White Republicans in politics, or white talking heads on Fox News, but I'll provide a source anyways: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2020.1839114

So, when a black person commits anti-Asian violence because of the beliefs they hold about the victim's role in the coronavirus, what stands at the root of this? Largely, racist sentiments perpetuated by whites in power and internalized by other communities. And the history of Black-Asian tensions have been going on for much longer than Covid. It is largely through white racism that a sense of competition between minority groups emerged (similar to the tension with Mexican immigrants described above). This article breaks down some of the history of Black-Asian tensions pretty well, but you can also look into the "model minority myth" if you want to do further reading: https://www.vox.com/22321234/black-asian-american-tensions-solidarity-history

Now, does this mean that you are to blame, or that any of this is a criticism of you personally? Of course not. This type of defensive attitude is something I see all too often and it is altogether misplaced. I work in the sciences. One of the most important things that we learn is about cognitive biases. It doesn't make me evil or bad or stupid for these biases to exist within my head. It is simply a part of human nature. However, it is through learning and understanding in which I am able to ensure that I don't act upon these biases. The same thing applies for racial biases. It doesn't make you a bad person to have biases in your head. Everyone does. That is the power of white supremacy. However, learning and understanding can help immensely in not just ensuring you aren't perpetuating White supremacy, but in dismantling it. 

I don't really get the connection you're making between everything you're saying and your omnipresent 'white supremacy'.

You're making a perfect link between racial supremacy and xenophobia, which I find very questionable. If a virus originates in one country and then causes other countries to go through a disastrous year, isn't it logical then that quite a few people will develop a hatred against that one country, even if they do not believe in racial superiority at all? For instance, there was a lot of anti-German sentiment in Europe after World War II, but no one believed that they were racially superior to the Germans.

Couldn't the anti-Asian sentiment of the 'whites in power' simply be mostly a result of this logical xenophobia, rather than a major cause? Just like the anti-Asian sentiment of a lot of black Americans is. Or just like the anti-Asian sentiment of a lot of African people is, despite not watching Fox News or being directly part of 'a system of white supremacy'.

The fact that anti-Asian sentiments are more common among white people can simply be explained by the fact that black people are generally more used to discrimination, and thus tend to be more considerate when judging people by their ethnicity.

Edit: just to be clear - when I say that xenophobia is 'logical', I do of course not mean that it's also reasonable or justified.