By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - The Israeli-Palestinian Crisis in mainstream media is getting exposure as ethnic cleansing

Eagle367 said:

You guys can talk about religion all you want but this issue is not one religion. It's not judaism or Islam. It's a simple case of settler occupiers and the occupied. The natives suffering and the settlers living it large in the land of the natives

It is entirely based around religion.

Israel believes it is "entitled" to the land because it was given to them by "God" as per the Bible.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Pemalite said:

This is why the world needs to get rid of religion.

again, this kind of approach is simply wrong

as I said before, the world's deadliest humanitarian tragedies of all time have been carried out by atheist - 'free thinking' regimes, namely Nazism and Communism, with ~100m deaths each

Let's start with Nazism shall we? That was a war based around religion.
On one side the Nazi's were engaged in antisemitism to wipe out the Jewish religion.

The Nazi's also leveraged religion in order to undermine Judaism.. Hitler was also propped up as a "New Messiah".

Religion was a very big part of that war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Religion

Communism is an economical doctrine... And one could argue full communism hasn't been achieved by any country yet, not even China which has Capitalistic aspects underpinning it's market based economy.


dark_gh0st_b0y said:


...and some of the world's greatest humanitarian efforts have been carried out by religious organizations, e.g. the Catholic church being the world's largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services

the world needs to get rid of extremism


Yes the Catholic Church gives allot, no one denies that.
They essentially have a "Store" in every single town/city/suburb, in every single state, in almost every single country on Earth... And you have people donating regularly... In return they offer various services that aids in indoctrination to keep the donation cycle going, it's a a lucrative business.

But Religion isn't a requirement to help others. - I'm not religious, neither is anyone in my Brigade, my job revolves around saving lives daily.

The Catholic Church can help so many people because they have a large revenue stream from it's paying customers, Governments also give them a free pass on things like Tax (Which I think Church's should pay for) so they have the resources to do it... And often Governments will "Donate" hoards of cash to assist various populations.

But don't kid yourself, there is some abuse that goes on in the Church. - They will often spend up big on campaigns (I.E. Same Sex Marriage) in order to try and turn voters to their agenda, they are very much entwined in American Politics... Heck even Australian politics but to a far lesser degree thankfully.

For example during last years catastrophic bushfire season here, Australians handed over hundreds of millions of dollars to various organisations, many of which were religious in order to assist us Firefighters with basic needs like Food and Sanitation... But also to assist those who needed to rebuild/recover from the fires as well.
Instead the religious organizations "Held back" (And continue to hold) hundreds of millions of dollars arguing "They will spend it later". - As you can imagine, it did result in a shit storm and deservedly so.

There are also plenty of non-religious organizations which help more than any singular church... The United Nations supported World Food Program is one such example and is the largest humanitarian program in existence.

You also have the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation as well.

Point is, religion isn't the requirement to help others, nor is it a requirement in humanitarian efforts either.


--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
SvennoJ said:
Ka-pi96 said:

That's simply not true. They've banned competing religions, that's all.

To quote a former North Korean "To my childish eyes and to those of all my friends, Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il were perfect beings, untarnished by any base human function. I was convinced, as we all were, that neither of them urinated or defecated. Who could imagine such things of gods?"

If that isn't a state religion then what is?

If you include state religion, then the 'American dream' is a religion as well. My kids get to stand for the national anthem every morning as well, even with online learning the day starts with the anthem. North Korea takes it to the extreme. However in the states the American dream is an untouchable subject as well. Plus see what happens when you burn a flag.

Anyway getting rid of religion isn't so simple, in the end, the state shall provide is as much a faith based organisation as religion. Then you have the military where blind trust in the commander in chief is drilled in. It's pretty amazing how many institutions humans create that rather not have you think for yourself.

I guess this ship has sailed a long time ago in America. 



Pemalite said:
Eagle367 said:

You guys can talk about religion all you want but this issue is not one religion. It's not judaism or Islam. It's a simple case of settler occupiers and the occupied. The natives suffering and the settlers living it large in the land of the natives

It is entirely based around religion.

Israel believes it is "entitled" to the land because it was given to them by "God" as per the Bible.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

again, this kind of approach is simply wrong

as I said before, the world's deadliest humanitarian tragedies of all time have been carried out by atheist - 'free thinking' regimes, namely Nazism and Communism, with ~100m deaths each

Let's start with Nazism shall we? That was a war based around religion.
On one side the Nazi's were engaged in antisemitism to wipe out the Jewish religion.

The Nazi's also leveraged religion in order to undermine Judaism.. Hitler was also propped up as a "New Messiah".

Religion was a very big part of that war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Religion

Communism is an economical doctrine... And one could argue full communism hasn't been achieved by any country yet, not even China which has Capitalistic aspects underpinning it's market based economy.


dark_gh0st_b0y said:


...and some of the world's greatest humanitarian efforts have been carried out by religious organizations, e.g. the Catholic church being the world's largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services

the world needs to get rid of extremism


Yes the Catholic Church gives allot, no one denies that.
They essentially have a "Store" in every single town/city/suburb, in every single state, in almost every single country on Earth... And you have people donating regularly... In return they offer various services that aids in indoctrination to keep the donation cycle going, it's a a lucrative business.

But Religion isn't a requirement to help others. - I'm not religious, neither is anyone in my Brigade, my job revolves around saving lives daily.

The Catholic Church can help so many people because they have a large revenue stream from it's paying customers, Governments also give them a free pass on things like Tax (Which I think Church's should pay for) so they have the resources to do it... And often Governments will "Donate" hoards of cash to assist various populations.

But don't kid yourself, there is some abuse that goes on in the Church. - They will often spend up big on campaigns (I.E. Same Sex Marriage) in order to try and turn voters to their agenda, they are very much entwined in American Politics... Heck even Australian politics but to a far lesser degree thankfully.

For example during last years catastrophic bushfire season here, Australians handed over hundreds of millions of dollars to various organisations, many of which were religious in order to assist us Firefighters with basic needs like Food and Sanitation... But also to assist those who needed to rebuild/recover from the fires as well.
Instead the religious organizations "Held back" (And continue to hold) hundreds of millions of dollars arguing "They will spend it later". - As you can imagine, it did result in a shit storm and deservedly so.

There are also plenty of non-religious organizations which help more than any singular church... The United Nations supported World Food Program is one such example and is the largest humanitarian program in existence.

You also have the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation as well.

Point is, religion isn't the requirement to help others, nor is it a requirement in humanitarian efforts either.

Except there's a difference between Israel wanting it to be about religion vs it being about religion. If it was about religion, it paints this historic struggle that has been going on for centuries and that is complex and hard to figure out and solve. And Israel wants that. It doesn't want it not to be about religion because that would show the true face of the so called "conflict." It would show that it's actually about an occupying power taking over native land and oppressing them and squeezing them more and more until they snuff out. Israel doesn't want that. It's one of the oldest tales in the book. A new power comes and occupies land and oppresses the natives. But it's not about religion. Israel uses religion as a tool to promote it's agenda and many palestenians might do that as well to get help from Muslims, but it's not about religion. The central core issue has nothing to do with religion. The superficial clothings of religion are wrapped up around it though.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

What annoys me most is the agression and lack of care from the idf/israeli government when it comes to civilians. Biden and others keep saying israel has a right to defend themselves, yeah no shit mr obvious. It's the response and retaliation. When you look at the probablity of an israeli getting killed being so low, with the iron dome covering over 90% of strikes, the housing having protective structural walls and better preparation for attack, and then look at the Palestinians and the amount of civilian deaths,

They can't come up with a better strategy of getting soldiers there to take out hamas amd limit casual rates? I bet if there were israeli civilians in those buildings, they would take the utmost care and strategy in full force to make sure no one dies., probaby send in their special forces units to get them out, But hey it's just a Palestinian woman or child, so just use brute force, sorry and move on.

Such a shame how one can devalue life and the importance, simply because they are a few miles away under a different label and citizenship .



Related but unrelated, here is a music recommendation: Marillion - Gaza
Marillion is one of my favorite bands ever and they released a 17 minute song about the situation in Gaza, it's worth a listen, really beautiful and touching lyrics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5VKmyDEF6U

Lyrics: (really good)
https://www.marillion.com/music/lyric.htm?id=824



Around the Network
Eagle367 said:
Pemalite said:

It is entirely based around religion.

Israel believes it is "entitled" to the land because it was given to them by "God" as per the Bible.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

again, this kind of approach is simply wrong

as I said before, the world's deadliest humanitarian tragedies of all time have been carried out by atheist - 'free thinking' regimes, namely Nazism and Communism, with ~100m deaths each

Let's start with Nazism shall we? That was a war based around religion.
On one side the Nazi's were engaged in antisemitism to wipe out the Jewish religion.

The Nazi's also leveraged religion in order to undermine Judaism.. Hitler was also propped up as a "New Messiah".

Religion was a very big part of that war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Religion

Communism is an economical doctrine... And one could argue full communism hasn't been achieved by any country yet, not even China which has Capitalistic aspects underpinning it's market based economy.



Yes the Catholic Church gives allot, no one denies that.
They essentially have a "Store" in every single town/city/suburb, in every single state, in almost every single country on Earth... And you have people donating regularly... In return they offer various services that aids in indoctrination to keep the donation cycle going, it's a a lucrative business.

But Religion isn't a requirement to help others. - I'm not religious, neither is anyone in my Brigade, my job revolves around saving lives daily.

The Catholic Church can help so many people because they have a large revenue stream from it's paying customers, Governments also give them a free pass on things like Tax (Which I think Church's should pay for) so they have the resources to do it... And often Governments will "Donate" hoards of cash to assist various populations.

But don't kid yourself, there is some abuse that goes on in the Church. - They will often spend up big on campaigns (I.E. Same Sex Marriage) in order to try and turn voters to their agenda, they are very much entwined in American Politics... Heck even Australian politics but to a far lesser degree thankfully.

For example during last years catastrophic bushfire season here, Australians handed over hundreds of millions of dollars to various organisations, many of which were religious in order to assist us Firefighters with basic needs like Food and Sanitation... But also to assist those who needed to rebuild/recover from the fires as well.
Instead the religious organizations "Held back" (And continue to hold) hundreds of millions of dollars arguing "They will spend it later". - As you can imagine, it did result in a shit storm and deservedly so.

There are also plenty of non-religious organizations which help more than any singular church... The United Nations supported World Food Program is one such example and is the largest humanitarian program in existence.

You also have the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation as well.

Point is, religion isn't the requirement to help others, nor is it a requirement in humanitarian efforts either.

Except there's a difference between Israel wanting it to be about religion vs it being about religion. If it was about religion, it paints this historic struggle that has been going on for centuries and that is complex and hard to figure out and solve. And Israel wants that. It doesn't want it not to be about religion because that would show the true face of the so called "conflict." It would show that it's actually about an occupying power taking over native land and oppressing them and squeezing them more and more until they snuff out. Israel doesn't want that. It's one of the oldest tales in the book. A new power comes and occupies land and oppresses the natives. But it's not about religion. Israel uses religion as a tool to promote it's agenda and many palestenians might do that as well to get help from Muslims, but it's not about religion. The central core issue has nothing to do with religion. The superficial clothings of religion are wrapped up around it though.

The Jews wanted a home for themselves and decided to take for themselves the land that was promised to them by their god, even if that land was held and surrounded by their enemies. Doesn't get more religious than that. Who in their right mind would do such a thing, knowing they will be caught up in eternal conflict and warfare? That's the power and ridiculousness of religion, my friend. There would not be a concept of Israel, if it wasn't based on religion.



Finally for the first time in my life, I don't have to use kiddy gloves in explaining one of the most one-way conflicts to ever exist.



KratosLives said:

What annoys me most is the agression and lack of care from the idf/israeli government when it comes to civilians. Biden and others keep saying israel has a right to defend themselves, yeah no shit mr obvious. It's the response and retaliation. When you look at the probablity of an israeli getting killed being so low, with the iron dome covering over 90% of strikes, the housing having protective structural walls and better preparation for attack, and then look at the Palestinians and the amount of civilian deaths,

They can't come up with a better strategy of getting soldiers there to take out hamas amd limit casual rates? I bet if there were israeli civilians in those buildings, they would take the utmost care and strategy in full force to make sure no one dies., probaby send in their special forces units to get them out, But hey it's just a Palestinian woman or child, so just use brute force, sorry and move on.

Such a shame how one can devalue life and the importance, simply because they are a few miles away under a different label and citizenship .

These sorts of ignorant posts really grind my gears.  No army in the history of the world has taken more care to limit civilian casualties on the other side than Israel.  The death toll in Gaza is currently said to be around 200 when there have been at least 5 times that many airstrikes despite Hamas deliberately firing from civilian areas, using human shields, and the fact that that death toll includes dozens of people who were killed by Hamas rockets which landed in Gaza.  This means that the vast majority of Israeli strikes killed no one, because the IDF gives up its element of surprise by sending warnings whenever it is about to strike a building where it knows there are civilians.

Military leaders from across the west have stated that the restraint Israel shows is greater than the restraint their own militaries would be expected to show.  Richard Kemp, the general who commanded the British forces in Afghanistan, has been very vocal about how his forces did not show as much restraint as Israel.

The High Level Military Group, an organization of former senior military leaders from Germany, the US, Spain, France, Italy, Australia, the UK, India, and Colombia, said this about Israel's last conflict with Hamas: “We can be categorically clear that Israel’s conduct in the 2014 Gaza Conflict met and in some respects exceeded the highest standards we set for our own nations’ militaries. It is our view that Israel fought an exemplary campaign, adequately conceived with appropriately limited objectives, and displaying both a very high level of operational capability as well as a total commitment to the Law of Armed Conflict. It did this under challenging circumstances on a formidably complex urban battlefield. This is not to say that the IDF did not make mistakes, which are inevitable in the context of urban warfare against an enemy such as Hamas, that purposefully hides behind a civilian population.”

“The IDF not only met its obligations under the Law of Armed Conflict, but often exceeded them, both on the battlefield and in the humanitarian relief efforts that accompanied its operation. In many cases where the fighting was concerned, this came at significant tactical cost to the IDF. It fought under restrictive Rules of Engagement and it is obvious that instances existed throughout the conflict where the IDF did not attack lawful military objectives on account of a deliberate policy of restraint. The IDF also used a number of highly innovative tactics over and above the necessities of the precautions required by the Law of Armed Conflict. It further used its formidable intelligence capability in an effort to contain its action as closely as possible to Hamas’s assets and protect the civilian population amid which these were purposely and unlawfully embedded.”

Any statements that Israel is not showing restraint, that it is responding 'disproportionately' or deliberately killing civilians, display at best a complete ignorance of the realities and laws of warfare.  By that standard every single army which has ever engaged in a military conflict since the first army was formed is even more guilty of everything the IDF is accused of.



Dante9 said:

The Jews wanted a home for themselves and decided to take for themselves the land that was promised to them by their god, even if that land was held and surrounded by their enemies. Doesn't get more religious than that. Who in their right mind would do such a thing, knowing they will be caught up in eternal conflict and warfare? That's the power and ridiculousness of religion, my friend. There would not be a concept of Israel, if it wasn't based on religion.

So... if in the bible the verse that says that land was promised them by God did not exist you think they would not want to return to their historic land and none of this would happen and they would be happily living scattered around the world?



DitchPlaya said:

Finally for the first time in my life, I don't have to use kiddy gloves in explaining one of the most one-way conflicts to ever exist.

We should never have to use kid gloves to discuss any important matter by fear of offending someone or being cancelled. Yet, I only allow myself to talk about this anonymously unfortunately.