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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Israeli-Palestinian Crisis in mainstream media is getting exposure as ethnic cleansing

Pemalite on 19 May 2021
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

a war based around religion!? no way, the persecution of Jews was based on them having huge wealth and influence in Germany while being a minority, in short, nationalism

Again... Religion was the underpinning theme here.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


no, that is half the story - referring to like 1920... Hilter pretended to support Chirstianity in his very early years in order to get to power (he was smart), Goebbels wrote in April 1941 that though Hitler was "a fierce opponent" of the Vatican and Christianity, "he forbids me to leave the church. For tactical reasons."

You are only reinforcing my argument. Again, religion being the underlying theme.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


Although he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons, some historians note his intention to eventually eliminate Christianity from Germany, or at least reform it to suit a Nazi outlook. (again making sense, his nationalism was not exactly compatible with love and compassion)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler


Never happened. We can play "What ifs" all day long.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

yes there is some abuse in the church, but you don't judge the church based on the 2% and ignore the 98%, do you? not to mention abuse in the general public is estimated to be as high as 10%

Hundreds of millions of dollars locked up isn't just 2%.

As far as abuse is other types of "sick" abuse is concerned... That sits at around 5%. (Reported cases anyway, there are likely unreported ones.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6676731/

However the number of abuse cases is irrelevant, the fact that it's the *leaders* that are the abusers, which are meant to represent the organizations interests is what is truly abhorrent, the ones that are facing the community, the ones that people look towards for assistance and advice.

It's easy to destroy your social license.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


then again, 2021 people tend to be VERY ungrateful... Jesus Christ, where does the charity mentality come from? Love your neighboor as yourself? Who is the most influential man of all time? What is the most read book of all time?

Albert Einstein? He paved the way for all the modern comforts we enjoy today... And his work is still referenced in theoretical physics.

Most read book? Obviously the Bible. - But I am unsure what that has to do with the price of beans in China.

The Bible has been used to deny equality in modern times, that alone is enough to shut it down.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


try to imagine he never existed, and see how the world would be different for the worse

Considering secular, non-religious nations tend to be more peaceful... I am going to go out on a limb and say it would be far better without the religion... Because that is generally what the evidence tells us.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

I could write a book on why the Christian faith is good, from a personal level to a global level

then again, we are getting off-topic  :P

And I could do the complete opposite. What's the point?

Eagle367 said:

Except there's a difference between Israel wanting it to be about religion vs it being about religion. If it was about religion, it paints this historic struggle that has been going on for centuries and that is complex and hard to figure out and solve. And Israel wants that. It doesn't want it not to be about religion because that would show the true face of the so called "conflict." It would show that it's actually about an occupying power taking over native land and oppressing them and squeezing them more and more until they snuff out. Israel doesn't want that. It's one of the oldest tales in the book. A new power comes and occupies land and oppresses the natives. But it's not about religion. Israel uses religion as a tool to promote it's agenda and many palestenians might do that as well to get help from Muslims, but it's not about religion. The central core issue has nothing to do with religion. The superficial clothings of religion are wrapped up around it though.

No. You are making it to be something it isn't.

Israel invaded and occupied that territory under the belief that they were "entitled" to it as per the Bible.
It is about religion.
These people are highly indoctrinated and strongly believe in their religious texts to the very word.






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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SvennoJ on 19 May 2021
Pemalite said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

a war based around religion!? no way, the persecution of Jews was based on them having huge wealth and influence in Germany while being a minority, in short, nationalism

Again... Religion was the underpinning theme here.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


no, that is half the story - referring to like 1920... Hilter pretended to support Chirstianity in his very early years in order to get to power (he was smart), Goebbels wrote in April 1941 that though Hitler was "a fierce opponent" of the Vatican and Christianity, "he forbids me to leave the church. For tactical reasons."

You are only reinforcing my argument. Again, religion being the underlying theme.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


Although he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons, some historians note his intention to eventually eliminate Christianity from Germany, or at least reform it to suit a Nazi outlook. (again making sense, his nationalism was not exactly compatible with love and compassion)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler


Never happened. We can play "What ifs" all day long.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

yes there is some abuse in the church, but you don't judge the church based on the 2% and ignore the 98%, do you? not to mention abuse in the general public is estimated to be as high as 10%

Hundreds of millions of dollars locked up isn't just 2%.

As far as abuse is other types of "sick" abuse is concerned... That sits at around 5%. (Reported cases anyway, there are likely unreported ones.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6676731/

However the number of abuse cases is irrelevant, the fact that it's the *leaders* that are the abusers, which are meant to represent the organizations interests is what is truly abhorrent, the ones that are facing the community, the ones that people look towards for assistance and advice.

It's easy to destroy your social license.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


then again, 2021 people tend to be VERY ungrateful... Jesus Christ, where does the charity mentality come from? Love your neighboor as yourself? Who is the most influential man of all time? What is the most read book of all time?

Albert Einstein? He paved the way for all the modern comforts we enjoy today... And his work is still referenced in theoretical physics.

Most read book? Obviously the Bible. - But I am unsure what that has to do with the price of beans in China.

The Bible has been used to deny equality in modern times, that alone is enough to shut it down.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


try to imagine he never existed, and see how the world would be different for the worse

Considering secular, non-religious nations tend to be more peaceful... I am going to go out on a limb and say it would be far better without the religion... Because that is generally what the evidence tells us.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

I could write a book on why the Christian faith is good, from a personal level to a global level

then again, we are getting off-topic  :P

And I could do the complete opposite. What's the point?

Eagle367 said:

Except there's a difference between Israel wanting it to be about religion vs it being about religion. If it was about religion, it paints this historic struggle that has been going on for centuries and that is complex and hard to figure out and solve. And Israel wants that. It doesn't want it not to be about religion because that would show the true face of the so called "conflict." It would show that it's actually about an occupying power taking over native land and oppressing them and squeezing them more and more until they snuff out. Israel doesn't want that. It's one of the oldest tales in the book. A new power comes and occupies land and oppresses the natives. But it's not about religion. Israel uses religion as a tool to promote it's agenda and many palestenians might do that as well to get help from Muslims, but it's not about religion. The central core issue has nothing to do with religion. The superficial clothings of religion are wrapped up around it though.

No. You are making it to be something it isn't.

Israel invaded and occupied that territory under the belief that they were "entitled" to it as per the Bible.
It is about religion.
These people are highly indoctrinated and strongly believe in their religious texts to the very word.

Actually it was the British trying to gain Jewish support in WWI

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-balfour-declaration

On November 2, 1917, Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour writes an important letter to Britain’s most illustrious Jewish citizen, Baron Lionel Walter Rothschild, expressing the British government’s support for a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The letter would eventually become known as the Balfour Declaration.

Britain’s support for the Zionist movement came from its concerns regarding the direction of the First World War. Aside from a genuine belief in the righteousness of Zionism, held by Lloyd George among others, Britain’s leaders hoped that a statement supporting Zionism would help gain Jewish support for the Allies.

On November 2, Balfour sent his letter to Lord Rothschild, a prominent Zionist and a friend of Chaim Weizmann, stating that: “His Majesty’s Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.”

The influence of the Balfour Declaration on the course of post-war events was immediate: According to the “mandate” system created by the Versailles Treaty of 1919, Britain was entrusted with the administration of Palestine, with the understanding that it would work on behalf of both its Jewish and Arab inhabitants.

Again making use of religion for political gains.



Rab on 19 May 2021

This is fascinating to watch, more real talk on mainstream media, there is definitely a change in the air round this in the US even though the Biden Administration is staying complicit in this human tragedy 

Geraldo Rivera Defends Palestinians And Schools Fox News On The Crisis

Last edited by Rab - on 19 May 2021

Eagle367 on 19 May 2021
Pemalite said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

a war based around religion!? no way, the persecution of Jews was based on them having huge wealth and influence in Germany while being a minority, in short, nationalism

Again... Religion was the underpinning theme here.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


no, that is half the story - referring to like 1920... Hilter pretended to support Chirstianity in his very early years in order to get to power (he was smart), Goebbels wrote in April 1941 that though Hitler was "a fierce opponent" of the Vatican and Christianity, "he forbids me to leave the church. For tactical reasons."

You are only reinforcing my argument. Again, religion being the underlying theme.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


Although he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons, some historians note his intention to eventually eliminate Christianity from Germany, or at least reform it to suit a Nazi outlook. (again making sense, his nationalism was not exactly compatible with love and compassion)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler


Never happened. We can play "What ifs" all day long.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

yes there is some abuse in the church, but you don't judge the church based on the 2% and ignore the 98%, do you? not to mention abuse in the general public is estimated to be as high as 10%

Hundreds of millions of dollars locked up isn't just 2%.

As far as abuse is other types of "sick" abuse is concerned... That sits at around 5%. (Reported cases anyway, there are likely unreported ones.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6676731/

However the number of abuse cases is irrelevant, the fact that it's the *leaders* that are the abusers, which are meant to represent the organizations interests is what is truly abhorrent, the ones that are facing the community, the ones that people look towards for assistance and advice.

It's easy to destroy your social license.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


then again, 2021 people tend to be VERY ungrateful... Jesus Christ, where does the charity mentality come from? Love your neighboor as yourself? Who is the most influential man of all time? What is the most read book of all time?

Albert Einstein? He paved the way for all the modern comforts we enjoy today... And his work is still referenced in theoretical physics.

Most read book? Obviously the Bible. - But I am unsure what that has to do with the price of beans in China.

The Bible has been used to deny equality in modern times, that alone is enough to shut it down.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:


try to imagine he never existed, and see how the world would be different for the worse

Considering secular, non-religious nations tend to be more peaceful... I am going to go out on a limb and say it would be far better without the religion... Because that is generally what the evidence tells us.

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

I could write a book on why the Christian faith is good, from a personal level to a global level

then again, we are getting off-topic  :P

And I could do the complete opposite. What's the point?

Eagle367 said:

Except there's a difference between Israel wanting it to be about religion vs it being about religion. If it was about religion, it paints this historic struggle that has been going on for centuries and that is complex and hard to figure out and solve. And Israel wants that. It doesn't want it not to be about religion because that would show the true face of the so called "conflict." It would show that it's actually about an occupying power taking over native land and oppressing them and squeezing them more and more until they snuff out. Israel doesn't want that. It's one of the oldest tales in the book. A new power comes and occupies land and oppresses the natives. But it's not about religion. Israel uses religion as a tool to promote it's agenda and many palestenians might do that as well to get help from Muslims, but it's not about religion. The central core issue has nothing to do with religion. The superficial clothings of religion are wrapped up around it though.

No. You are making it to be something it isn't.

Israel invaded and occupied that territory under the belief that they were "entitled" to it as per the Bible.
It is about religion.
These people are highly indoctrinated and strongly believe in their religious texts to the very word.




It's clear w can't convince each other. But the way I see it, it's not about Judaism or Islam, it's about occupier and occupied. It only started in 1948. It's not that complex and it's easy to see which side to take just like it was in apartheid south Africa or in the colonies under British rule or what happened in North America. The core issue isn't religion. Making it about about religion just adds complexity that isn't needed to solve the issue and the Israeli government knows that and is using that to their advantage. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 on 19 May 2021
Rab said:

This is fascinating to watch, more real talk on mainstream media, there is definitely a change in the air round this in the US even though the Biden Administration is staying complicit in this human tragedy 

Geraldo Rivera Defends Palestinians And Schools Fox News On The Crisis

How stupid was the UN. What did they think would happen with that map? They were asking for a conflict to erupt even if the landgrab was accepted by the natives. They could've made it so everything above Jerusalem is Israeli and everything below is Palestenian. We can see how just 2 years later, Gaza became this open air prison nightmare. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 on 19 May 2021

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1ynJOBwkgRzGR

Bernie Sanders on this issue on the Senate floor.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

SvennoJ on 19 May 2021
Eagle367 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1ynJOBwkgRzGR

Bernie Sanders on this issue on the Senate floor.

The broadcast ended during the "falling on deaf ears" rebuttal. So tiring when the 'defense' is hammering on one single truth (countries have the right to defend themselves), ignoring everything else.

It's good stuff finally gets said in the media in the US, will it matter though.



Rab on 20 May 2021

Cease-Fire has be declared on Gaza, it is little known mainly because of the mainstream media that Hamas have been requesting a Cease-Fire many times prior, but Israel have ignored this request up until now, Biden is widely praising the Israelis on it's Cease-Fire, now making it clear the President will release hundreds of millions of dollars in military equipment to Israel very soon

“Palestinian children and adolescents in the Gaza strip, nearly 90% had experienced personal trauma and more than 80% had witnessed trauma to others. In Gaza, it is virtually impossible, experts say, for children to access mental health care”.. Frontiers in Psychiatry

The declaration of Genocide of the Uighur peoples of China by the US ring hollow with it's tacit support of what is happening to the Palestinians and their families in Israel  



smroadkill15 on 22 May 2021

Let's not pretend this cease-fire is out of any kindness. They will harass the Palestinian's whenever possible. Palestinian's were celebrating the cease-fire and were shot with tear gas unprovoked.



EnricoPallazzo on 22 May 2021
Eagle367 said:

How stupid was the UN. What did they think would happen with that map? They were asking for a conflict to erupt even if the landgrab was accepted by the natives. They could've made it so everything above Jerusalem is Israeli and everything below is Palestenian. We can see how just 2 years later, Gaza became this open air prison nightmare. 

It was on purpose. My whole life I have been a west apologist and will keep on being as the alternatives are much, much worse. But what they did after WW2 in the middle east is just pure evil, on purpose, knowing that would generate chaos forever when defining the borders of Iraq and other countries. What they did in Palestine was on purpose as they knew that separating the palestinian state in two different areas would facilitate for Israel to take it over.

And it is one of the reason I think Palestinians should accept defeat and create their own state ASAP because soon all that will be left for them will be Gaza.