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Forums - Nintendo - Bloomberg: New Switch Model With Larger OLED Display And 4K Docked. Production Begins In June.

Darc Requiem on 08 March 2021
Dulfite said:
Darc Requiem said:

Interesting article. Based on some of things they've I don't necessarily share their conclusions. If its a half gen upgrade Tegra X2 could provide that sort of performance jump if it runs at full clocks. The X1 in the Switch only has around 75% of the power it could have. 393 GLOPS instead of 512 GFLOPS. It's why the overclocked Switch's see such a performance boost. They are just running the X1 at full clocks. X2 is a 750 GLOPS running at full speed. That's nearly double the Switch's reduced clocks but the main issue is DLSS. Pascal based GPUs lack Tensor Cores. Those are needed to run DLSS. If it weren't for multiple reliable sources insisting on DLSS the X2 would be a no brainer. Maybe they could have an additional chip added to handle it? Not sure how feasible that would be. With Xavier they could just use an off the shelf design. Even under clocked like the X1 it would be more powerful than a X2. Very curious to see what will ultimately go into the revision.

Side note: Given how old the Maxwell architecture is at this point maybe its just being sunset. It's 5 generations old. Its been succeeded by Pascal, Volta, Turing, and now Ampere. Nintendo may not have the option of using the old SoC any longer.

@bold

If that's the case, then do you think Nintendo will intentionally force developers to limit future games' capabilities to what the original chip could handle? If this is like the Switch update 1-2 years ago that they kept low-key, then they would have a device that could handle better performance, but won't in order to not alienate the player base.

I wouldn't expect Nintendo to have any games that didn't work on the OG model for some time but if a third party game will only run on the new hardware, I can't see Nintendo refusing a game that they wouldn't have gotten anyway. For example if Square wanted to release FFVII Remake on Switch but it would only run on the new model, they aren't turning down that game.



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numberwang on 08 March 2021
Dulfite said:

New info - Nvidia are apparently going to stop making Switch chips and start making a new Tegra one. I'm not surprised about Switch Pro coming, but ending production of the basic Switch is shocking to me if this is true.

https://www-hardwaretimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia-reportedly-stopping-manufacture-of-nintendo-switch-soc-soon/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16152061698259&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwaretimes.com%2Fnvidia-reportedly-stopping-manufacture-of-nintendo-switch-soc-soon%2F

If the existing chipset goes out of production, we are getting an internal refresh, not an additional Pro model because N wouldn't kill their existing cash cow for an expensive new chip upgrade. My guess would be just a die shrink with 4K output support for future streaming support.

Edit: it might be both, a die shrink for the existing models and an additional Pro model with Xavier or Orin chipset.

Last edited by numberwang - on 08 March 2021

ruffy37 on 08 March 2021

I really hope if there is a new 4k capable switch that the console itself isn't stronger but somehow the dock delivers that extra power. I'm ready to invest in a dock if it somehow enables dlss but not in a entire console with inparity in mind. xiaomi now brings budget phones with oled screen, it seems like oled price dropped strongly. there is a preorder for redmi note 10 with oled for 154€ and redmi note 10 pro with 120hz oled for 224€.



Shaunodon on 08 March 2021
Darc Requiem said:
Dulfite said:

@bold

If that's the case, then do you think Nintendo will intentionally force developers to limit future games' capabilities to what the original chip could handle? If this is like the Switch update 1-2 years ago that they kept low-key, then they would have a device that could handle better performance, but won't in order to not alienate the player base.

I wouldn't expect Nintendo to have any games that didn't work on the OG model for some time but if a third party game will only run on the new hardware, I can't see Nintendo refusing a game that they wouldn't have gotten anyway. For example if Square wanted to release FFVII Remake on Switch but it would only run on the new model, they aren't turning down that game.

Says who?

How many years into the Switch do we have to be, to get rid of this idea that big third party titles play a significant role in Nintendo's success. Switch has been the definitive proof that they don't.

Why would Nintendo be desperate to strike a deal with Square to get FFVII on a Switch Pro, have no support for the majority of the Switch player base, when they've already had several exclusive deals with Square that are working great for the system-- Octopath, Bravel Default, Project Triangle etc.

You believe it'd be worth them snubbing their noses at the majority of their current owners, just to support the very niche group that's actually hoping for this? I don't think the cost-benefit makes any sense. Not enough for Nintendo to even consider the risk.



Shaunodon on 08 March 2021

On their new weekly news show/podcast, DF spend the first 10mins on this subject. Seems they expect something lowkey-- basic upgraded screen with basic upscaling to 4k for most titles. @ruffy37 they do mention why you can't just enhance the system purely through a dock.

I like that they didn't spend too much time on the subject and wrapped it up by saying 'most of what people seem to want from a "Switch Pro", they should really just wait for "Switch 2."' Sound advice.



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Otter on 08 March 2021

If it's such a non upgrade it makes sense that it will be a revision that will replace the basic switch and be used to keep the $299 price tag through 2022 whilst also creating an influx of double dipping.



Pemalite on 08 March 2021
Dulfite said:

New info - Nvidia are apparently going to stop making Switch chips and start making a new Tegra one. I'm not surprised about Switch Pro coming, but ending production of the basic Switch is shocking to me if this is true.

https://www-hardwaretimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia-reportedly-stopping-manufacture-of-nintendo-switch-soc-soon/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16152061698259&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwaretimes.com%2Fnvidia-reportedly-stopping-manufacture-of-nintendo-switch-soc-soon%2F

nVidia doesn't make the chips, TSMC does.
nVidia is a fabless company.

I think the issue is partly economics... TSMC is seeing industrial/defense/space/IoT/Automotive/5G contracts for it's super mature 16nm process pickup significantly. - Just 6 months ago utilization rates of their 16nm node was at 90% and could start trending higher with the world-wide chip manufacturing shortage.

And when they have that kind of utilization, TSMC can increase prices due to supply/demand... And when that happens it may be economically more feasible to simply shift chip manufacturing to a newer node... And then you might as well use a newer chip design with paths optimized for the smaller geometries.

Darc Requiem said:

Interesting article. Based on some of things they've I don't necessarily share their conclusions. If its a half gen upgrade Tegra X2 could provide that sort of performance jump if it runs at full clocks. The X1 in the Switch only has around 75% of the power it could have. 393 GLOPS instead of 512 GFLOPS. It's why the overclocked Switch's see such a performance boost. They are just running the X1 at full clocks. X2 is a 750 GLOPS running at full speed. That's nearly double the Switch's reduced clocks but the main issue is DLSS. Pascal based GPUs lack Tensor Cores. Those are needed to run DLSS. If it weren't for multiple reliable sources insisting on DLSS the X2 would be a no brainer. Maybe they could have an additional chip added to handle it? Not sure how feasible that would be. With Xavier they could just use an off the shelf design. Even under clocked like the X1 it would be more powerful than a X2. Very curious to see what will ultimately go into the revision.

Side note: Given how old the Maxwell architecture is at this point maybe its just being sunset. It's 5 generations old. Its been succeeded by Pascal, Volta, Turing, and now Ampere. Nintendo may not have the option of using the old SoC any longer.

GFLOP's isn't a chips complete performance profile.

X2 at the same clocks and GFLOP's as X1... The X2 will be faster.

Shaunodon said:

On their new weekly news show/podcast, DF spend the first 10mins on this subject. Seems they expect something lowkey-- basic upgraded screen with basic upscaling to 4k for most titles. @ruffy37 they do mention why you can't just enhance the system purely through a dock.

I like that they didn't spend too much time on the subject and wrapped it up by saying 'most of what people seem to want from a "Switch Pro", they should really just wait for "Switch 2."' Sound advice.

I share digital foundries sentiments on this.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Agente42 on 08 March 2021
Otter said:

If it's such a non upgrade it makes sense that it will be a revision that will replace the basic switch and be used to keep the $299 price tag through 2022 whilst also creating an influx of double dipping.

Have two rumors

One by nate, the new switch 720p new processor with dlss technology

and another for the replacement of OG switch. 



Darc Requiem on 09 March 2021
Shaunodon said:
Darc Requiem said:

I wouldn't expect Nintendo to have any games that didn't work on the OG model for some time but if a third party game will only run on the new hardware, I can't see Nintendo refusing a game that they wouldn't have gotten anyway. For example if Square wanted to release FFVII Remake on Switch but it would only run on the new model, they aren't turning down that game.

Says who?

How many years into the Switch do we have to be, to get rid of this idea that big third party titles play a significant role in Nintendo's success. Switch has been the definitive proof that they don't.

Why would Nintendo be desperate to strike a deal with Square to get FFVII on a Switch Pro, have no support for the majority of the Switch player base, when they've already had several exclusive deals with Square that are working great for the system-- Octopath, Bravel Default, Project Triangle etc.

You believe it'd be worth them snubbing their noses at the majority of their current owners, just to support the very niche group that's actually hoping for this? I don't think the cost-benefit makes any sense. Not enough for Nintendo to even consider the risk.

The first bolded statement literally has zero to do with my post. I didn't say anything that could imply I believe in that statement. I gave a hypothetical example to answer the previous posters question. An answer that people, in the know, have already inferred to be reality. You are making a lot of presumptions here. Secondly "striking a deal" implies that Nintendo would paying for this to happen. They would simply be allowing them to target the new specs just like they've have allowed developers to create cloud versions of their games. This goes all the way back to the Japan only cloud version of RE7. Capcom couldn't get the game running acceptably natively and Nintendo let them create a cloud version. Clould games are likely going to playable in only the home environment for most people. They require a stable and fast internet connection. You think these cloud based titles that already exist aren't prohibitive for a significant portion of the userbase. Who's to say that OG Switch wouldn't get the cloud version of this hypothetical game while the revision gets a game that runs natively on the hardware? 



Agente42 on 09 March 2021
Pemalite said:
Dulfite said:

New info - Nvidia are apparently going to stop making Switch chips and start making a new Tegra one. I'm not surprised about Switch Pro coming, but ending production of the basic Switch is shocking to me if this is true.

https://www-hardwaretimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia-reportedly-stopping-manufacture-of-nintendo-switch-soc-soon/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16152061698259&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwaretimes.com%2Fnvidia-reportedly-stopping-manufacture-of-nintendo-switch-soc-soon%2F

nVidia doesn't make the chips, TSMC does.
nVidia is a fabless company.

I think the issue is partly economics... TSMC is seeing industrial/defense/space/IoT/Automotive/5G contracts for it's super mature 16nm process pickup significantly. - Just 6 months ago utilization rates of their 16nm node was at 90% and could start trending higher with the world-wide chip manufacturing shortage.

And when they have that kind of utilization, TSMC can increase prices due to supply/demand... And when that happens it may be economically more feasible to simply shift chip manufacturing to a newer node... And then you might as well use a newer chip design with paths optimized for the smaller geometries.

Darc Requiem said:

Interesting article. Based on some of things they've I don't necessarily share their conclusions. If its a half gen upgrade Tegra X2 could provide that sort of performance jump if it runs at full clocks. The X1 in the Switch only has around 75% of the power it could have. 393 GLOPS instead of 512 GFLOPS. It's why the overclocked Switch's see such a performance boost. They are just running the X1 at full clocks. X2 is a 750 GLOPS running at full speed. That's nearly double the Switch's reduced clocks but the main issue is DLSS. Pascal based GPUs lack Tensor Cores. Those are needed to run DLSS. If it weren't for multiple reliable sources insisting on DLSS the X2 would be a no brainer. Maybe they could have an additional chip added to handle it? Not sure how feasible that would be. With Xavier they could just use an off the shelf design. Even under clocked like the X1 it would be more powerful than a X2. Very curious to see what will ultimately go into the revision.

Side note: Given how old the Maxwell architecture is at this point maybe its just being sunset. It's 5 generations old. Its been succeeded by Pascal, Volta, Turing, and now Ampere. Nintendo may not have the option of using the old SoC any longer.

GFLOP's isn't a chips complete performance profile.

X2 at the same clocks and GFLOP's as X1... The X2 will be faster.

Shaunodon said:

On their new weekly news show/podcast, DF spend the first 10mins on this subject. Seems they expect something lowkey-- basic upgraded screen with basic upscaling to 4k for most titles. @ruffy37 they do mention why you can't just enhance the system purely through a dock.

I like that they didn't spend too much time on the subject and wrapped it up by saying 'most of what people seem to want from a "Switch Pro", they should really just wait for "Switch 2."' Sound advice.

I share digital foundries sentiments on this.

DF bias you see a distant