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Forums - Sales - Why are Nintendo Switch sales peaking much later than other Nintendo consoles?

Shadow1980 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Super Mario Party, Pokemon Let's Go, Smash Bros, and NSMB U all released within a 4 month window during late 2018-early 2019.  All of those games are in the Switch's top 10.  Yeah, it actually was games causing Switch sales to grow.

As you said, except for NSMBU those were 2018 releases. And except for NSMBU and Mario Maker 2, all the high-profile Switch releases for 2019 were after the Lite was released in September.

Nobody has yet to satisfactorily prove that any one game (or four closely-released ones) can improve their system's baseline for many months on end. We've never really seen it with other systems before, so why assume it's happening now? Also, having good lifetime sales doesn't make a game a system-seller. Sure, Smash was an undeniable blockbuster and Pokemon Let's Go did very well, and there's solid evidence that both moved some surplus hardware. But neither NSMBU nor Mario Party appears to have moved the needle for software in the short term if what they did in Japan is any indication. Their initial sales in Japan weren't all that impressive either despite their solid lifetime sales; according to Media Create, first week sales for NSMBU and Mario Party were 166k and 142k respectively, relatively mediocre starts compared to a lot other popular games. In the U.S., NSMBU had already dropped out of the Monthly Top 10 in February and the YTD Top 10 by April, and Mario Party dropped out of the monthly Top 10 after the 2018 holiday season (Pokemon Let's Go's legs are hard to determine as NPD logged the Pikachu and Eevee versions separately).

You could make a case for January 2019 feeling some residual effect from Smash as there have been a few system-sellers to still have a small effect in the month after their release, but that's about it. Except for maybe Splatoon (and only in Japan), there's never been a single recorded case of any obvious increases in hardware sales two months after a notable system-seller's release. The effects of individual games on hardware sales are often grossly overestimated. Their effects are very short-term. And again, we don't see continued strong lineups over time result in growth in baseline sales for other systems, so why assume the Switch is somehow unique in that regard?

And FWIW, we didn't see a consistent increase in the Switch's baseline in Japan like we did in the U.S. While sales were up in January & February 2019, by mid-March it was down to being about flat from 2018 and it stayed like that until the Lite was released.

There were four top selling games released back-to-back 4 months in a row.  That is an undeniable fact.  All 4 games are in the Switch's top 10 best-sellers of all time.  You cannot say that NSMB U and Mario Party are poor sellers as a whole, because they are clearly top sellers.
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/software/index.html

Instead you are expecting a first month sales spike for all 4 games.  NSMBU and Mario Party did not have a huge sales spike the first month like a lot of games do.  Instead they have incredible legs.  This is an undeniable fact, because they are in the top 10 in spite of the fact that they didn't sell a huge chunk during the first month.  They just keep selling well every month (and so does Smash Bros).  When you have several evergreen games that sell a good amount every month, that is going to increase baseline sales.

Also, I think the reason why so many people disagree with you can be summed up by this line, "The effects of individual games on hardware sales are often grossly overestimated."  It sounds like you don't believe in killer apps.  That may be the real cause of the disagreement.  I definitely believe that killer apps exist and cause people to buy hardware.  If you don't believe this, then you should really be making the case of why you think no game is really selling the hardware and then explain why you think people are buying the hardware when they really aren't interested in specific games.  



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Leynos said:
Jumpin said:

So were Nintendo's other home consoles with shorter generations and less successful than the Wii worse novelties?

Different situations entirely.

Since your premise is irrelevant, your conclusion based on it is invalid.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Leynos said:

Different situations entirely.

Since your premise is irrelevant, your conclusion based on it is invalid.

No. My point was valid. You just want to be confrontational like always. I'd have blocked you months ago if this site featured it. So here is an idea. Don't ever talk to me again. Ok? Good. Bye.

Last edited by Leynos - on 23 February 2021

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Shadow1980 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Super Mario Party, Pokemon Let's Go, Smash Bros, and NSMB U all released within a 4 month window during late 2018-early 2019.  All of those games are in the Switch's top 10.  Yeah, it actually was games causing Switch sales to grow.

As you said, except for NSMBU those were 2018 releases. And except for NSMBU and Mario Maker 2, all the high-profile Switch releases for 2019 were after the Lite was released in September.

Nobody has yet to satisfactorily prove that any one game (or four closely-released ones) can improve their system's baseline for many months on end. We've never really seen it with other systems before, so why assume it's happening now? Also, having good lifetime sales doesn't make a game a system-seller. Sure, Smash was an undeniable blockbuster and Pokemon Let's Go did very well, and there's solid evidence that both moved some surplus hardware. But neither NSMBU nor Mario Party appears to have moved the needle for software in the short term if what they did in Japan is any indication. Their initial sales in Japan weren't all that impressive either despite their solid lifetime sales; according to Media Create, first week sales for NSMBU and Mario Party were 166k and 142k respectively, relatively mediocre starts compared to a lot other popular games. In the U.S., NSMBU had already dropped out of the Monthly Top 10 in February and the YTD Top 10 by April, and Mario Party dropped out of the monthly Top 10 after the 2018 holiday season (Pokemon Let's Go's legs are hard to determine as NPD logged the Pikachu and Eevee versions separately).

You could make a case for January 2019 feeling some residual effect from Smash as there have been a few system-sellers to still have a small effect in the month after their release, but that's about it. Except for maybe Splatoon (and only in Japan), there's never been a single recorded case of any obvious increases in hardware sales two months after a notable system-seller's release. The effects of individual games on hardware sales are often grossly overestimated. Their effects are very short-term. And again, we don't see continued strong lineups over time result in growth in baseline sales for other systems, so why assume the Switch is somehow unique in that regard?

And FWIW, we didn't see a consistent increase in the Switch's baseline in Japan like we did in the U.S. While sales were up in January & February 2019, by mid-March it was down to being about flat from 2018 and it stayed like that until the Lite was released.

Smash Ultimate and all of the other five 20 million sellers on the Switch still sell hardware to this day. Each one of them raised the global sales baseline of the Switch longterm.



It’s been interesting to read all the discussion here.
Switch doesn’t really seem to be peaking late compared to the DS if we look at the Switch vs DS gap chart.
Then again if Breath of the Wild 2 and Pokemon remakes launch in time for Christmas then we really could have a late peak of 12 million units sold in Q4 2021. More than four and a half years after launch.



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Shadow1980 said:

And no individual game, nor any particular lineup of notable games released over a brief period of time, has ever caused an increase in baseline sales lasting for months on end. It. Just. Doesn't. Happen. A system having a good performance in general does depend greatly on the strength of its library, but actual sales growth for periods longer than a month or two is, as far as can be determined from the data, not the result of any one game or even a group of closely-released games. We've never seen a strong lineup in one year (or half-year, or quarter) do it with any other system before. Why assume it's suddenly a thing with the Switch?

WiiU + Mario Kart 8:

In general these effects are better visible on a weak console like WiiU. But there are past examples like Pokemon on Gameboy.

The momentum of a console doesn't come from thin air. It is the value you see in it overall, which is mostly defined by it's games. So a certain game may push you from fence sitting to buying the device. This is often close to the release of the game, but has an extended effect as now new people got onto the fence with this game and slight pushes are enough. Or maybe on some the effect is delayed, because they need to save the money or something.

And yes, a system seller also works on the back of the already established library. But that doesn't change it's status as a system seller. Because all the library did was make a background of games that read into the decision making like: after I played the system seller, I still have something to avoid the console gathering dust.

See all the comments aka: I don't pay 300€$ for just Mario. Realize that these comments were never made for say Picross. Because it is really clear nobody buys a system for Picross. But making these comments means people actually start considering a system for that game they make the comment about. They were transformed from uninterested in the system to sitting on the fence. And that is the power of a system seller. A torrent of smaller games does not do that, it doesn't move the needle. But the system sellers do. And yes, maybe you need multiple of the system sellers to be convinced. That doesn't change their status, because each time it releases a new bunch of customers are in reach for marketing and sales and offers and word of mouth to be converted to purchasers.

EDIT: You say the momentum was a result of COVID-19. But despite the lockdowns and virus effects hitting countries at different times, the "virus related effect" hit all around the world coincidentially at the time of the Animal Crossing release. And despite the virus related lockdowns increasing over the year, the virus momentum did wear off with time after Animal Crossing:

Too strange. I also guess some virus hit at the time New Super Mario Bos 2 hit 3DS, as momentum stayed at least 30K above the first half of the year in 2012:

Last edited by Mnementh - on 24 February 2021

3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

From my experience, once you're locked with your family, all of a sudden access to a TV or console becomes a problem. Switch is a perfect solution. It's personal, convenient, for everyone and cheaper than buying a new gaming PC/laptop or PS4 + TV/Monitor. For the price of a single decent gaming laptop, you could buy 4-6 Switches for the whole family. And even if that's not an issue and the whole household would like to play something together, Nintendo is known for its local co-op/split-screen family-friendly games. Not to mention fitness games. It's just a perfect lockdown system. 

Last edited by Kristof81 - on 24 February 2021

The handheld part of Nintendo‘s business has always been very strong while their home consoles have seen more modest receptions overall. Now that Nintendo’s dedicated handhelds are no more, in the current landscape, having a hybrid console makes both consumer types get the only Nintendo system available. It was genius for them to do this, because their home console presence was on the downward side for a long time with the exception of the Wii, which was a lightning in a bottle type of phenomenon, yet they still held the majority of the handheld market to themselves. Making the Switch what it is and fusing the two sides of their business into one cohesive entity to cater to both at the same time was a truly brilliant move. They’re playing to their strength while making sure they retain a presence in people’s living rooms. No wonder it sells as well as it does.



Kristof81 said:

From my experience, once you're locked with your family, all of a sudden access to a TV or console becomes a problem. Switch is a perfect solution. It's personal, convenient, for everyone and cheaper than buying a new gaming PC/laptop or PS4 + TV/Monitor. For the price of a single decent gaming laptop, you could buy 4-6 Switches for the whole family. And even if that's not an issue and the whole household would like to play something together, Nintendo is known for its local co-op/split-screen family-friendly games. Not to mention fitness games. It's just a perfect lockdown system. 

Lockdown makes Switch more appealing. It's a fact. Animal Crossing is the engine behind the sustain the momentum. 

Entertainment vs entertainment, the switch has a better proposition than others in isolation. And the entertainment outside is out of the question, Nintendo reigns supreme. But the games sustain the momentum. 



Shadow1980 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

There were four top selling games released back-to-back 4 months in a row.  That is an undeniable fact.  All 4 games are in the Switch's top 10 best-sellers of all time.  You cannot say that NSMB U and Mario Party are poor sellers as a whole, because they are clearly top sellers.
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/software/index.html

Instead you are expecting a first month sales spike for all 4 games.  NSMBU and Mario Party did not have a huge sales spike the first month like a lot of games do.  Instead they have incredible legs.  This is an undeniable fact, because they are in the top 10 in spite of the fact that they didn't sell a huge chunk during the first month.  They just keep selling well every month (and so does Smash Bros).  When you have several evergreen games that sell a good amount every month, that is going to increase baseline sales.

Also, I think the reason why so many people disagree with you can be summed up by this line, "The effects of individual games on hardware sales are often grossly overestimated."  It sounds like you don't believe in killer apps.  That may be the real cause of the disagreement.  I definitely believe that killer apps exist and cause people to buy hardware.  If you don't believe this, then you should really be making the case of why you think no game is really selling the hardware and then explain why you think people are buying the hardware when they really aren't interested in specific games.  

Re-read what I said about Mario Party and NSMBU. You'll see that I said they didn't have good initial sales. Their lifetime sales are good, not because they started off well, but because they managed to have legs just good enough to generate a good lifetime tally. NSMBU in particular has been quite leggy; while it shipped only 4.1M by June 30, 2019 and 5.85M by Dec. 31, 2019, it's now at almost 10M. Not a record-smashing start (esp. in Japan), but good enough long-term sales to do what it did.

Regarding system-sellers. There are very few games that cause any significant increases in hardware sales. That's a simple fact. The vast majority games do precisely jack squat. Even some games that are very popular don't move any measurable amount of hardware. It's even harder to notice any effects when sales are tracked monthly like they are in the U.S. (a game that causes a 50% bump in weekly sales in the week of its release would only cause a 12.5% increase for a 4-week month, something that could be easily overlooked as statistical noise). Sales are tracked weekly in Japan so we notice more system-sellers, but the vast majority of those do relatively small one-week bumps. Some have a residual effect lasting a few weeks, which is consistent with what we see in the U.S. with most clear system-sellers having an effect in just their release month, with a select few having some sort of residual effect in the next month.

And no individual game, nor any particular lineup of notable games released over a brief period of time, has ever caused an increase in baseline sales lasting for months on end. It. Just. Doesn't. Happen. A system having a good performance in general does depend greatly on the strength of its library, but actual sales growth for periods longer than a month or two is, as far as can be determined from the data, not the result of any one game or even a group of closely-released games. We've never seen a strong lineup in one year (or half-year, or quarter) do it with any other system before. Why assume it's suddenly a thing with the Switch?

This explanation is poor.  Why?  Because it doesn't provide an alternative.  All you are doing is denying what myself and others are saying.  You are not providing a better alternative, nor are you even trying to do so.

You said, "And no individual game, nor any particular lineup of notable games released over a brief period of time, has ever caused an increase in baseline sales lasting for months on end. It. Just. Doesn't. Happen."  What does cause an increase in baseline sales?  Do you have an explanation?  Before a console peaks it is very common to see YoY growth even when there is no price cut, hardware revision, pandemic, or major release corresponding to a particular week or month.  If you are so convinced that software does not increase baseline sales, then what does?