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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I'm beginning to think Switch's 2021-2023 will mirror Wii's 2011-2012.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Four to five high quality hitters beats lazy ports, non-games like Mario Kart AR, and C tier releases like Mystery Dungeon and Paper Mario.

Also, obviously Nintendo would have more than that in those years. I kept it to the good stuff that is worth buying.

Thank you for clarifying. Still, I'd say that the thread should be about all first party game output, then judge the output based on that. Quality is so subjective, one person might buy everything and another might buy nothing. Even going by what is GOING to sell isn't a good indicator, as you mention Monolith Soft in your list, but consider Paper Mario and Mystery Dungeon to be C tier when they've both sold more than games in the Xenoblade franchise. 

The Wii's 2011-2012 was awful because there were next to no first party games in general. 2011 was Skyward Sword, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Poke Park 2, Rhythm Heaven Fever, Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street. For 2012 it was just Mario Party 9 and Kirby Collection. Even 2020 beats that abysmal lineup I would say, based on both quality and quantity. Do you really think that the next few years for Switch will be even worse than 2020?



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No

In 2005-2006 Nintendo was simultaneously developing games for GameCube, Wii, GBA and DS.

In 2011-2012 Nintendo was simultaneously developing games for Wii, Wii U, DS & 3DS.



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SKMBlake said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Rescue Mission got bad reviews. Paper Mario only got 78/100 on Opencritic. All stars contains nothing new. If Nintendo was smart they'd already have a sizable chunk of their Gamecube/Wii library on the Switch eShop for purchase. Pikmin 3 is a 7 year old game. If you're going to talk about MKLive then talk about Labo from 2018.

Your statements has nothing to do with what I said. I can go the same way.

Rescue Mission is a Pokémon Game, Paper Mario released in summer, All stars in on cartridge, Pikmin is the 3rd episode. If you wanna talk about Labo, then talk about Resident Evil 4 remake.

See ?

Cerebralbore101 said:

If you're going to talk about MKLive then talk about Labo from 2018.

Well, I did

Why are you acting as if what I said has no bearing on whether or not these games are worth getting excited about? Rescue Mission being a Poke'mon game is irrelevant. Rescue Mission getting poor reviews is completely relevant. Origami King releasing in summer is irrelevant. Origami King being another Paper Mario game that moves further away from the greatness that was the OG Paper Mario and Thousand Year Door is completely relevant. All Stars being on cartridge is irrelevant. All Stars being a lazy port and a bunch of old games is completely relevant. People buy new game systems to play new games, not old games. Same goes for Pikmin 3.

I swear Nintendo could have a 1st party year consisting only of the following and certain Nintendo fans would defend it to their last breath as a good year...

Super Mario Party 2
Another Animal Crossing Spin off as bad as Happy Home Designer
Another Star Fox game as terrible as Zero.
Poke'mon Mystery Dungeon 2
Xenoblade X Port
Windwaker HD Port
Twilight Princess HD Port
1-2 Switch 2
Nintendo Fitness Plus Ultra Deluxe boring edition.
Metroid Prime Federation Force 2



Cerebralbore101 said:
Doctor_MG said:

So basically you expect Nintendo's output to slow to such a crawl that they only release four to five games a year, when they released 10 games even in a crap year like 2020 (with development being severely impacted by COVID no less). And this is your NON pessimistic timetable?

Nah, I can't get behind that. 

Four to five high quality hitters beats lazy ports, non-games like Mario Kart AR, and C tier releases like Mystery Dungeon and Paper Mario.

Also, obviously Nintendo would have more than that in those years. I kept it to the good stuff that is worth buying.

See the issue here is, you're modelling this thread after your personal play pattern. Which is fine, but then it just makes it odd that you exclude third party games, third party exclusives, and indie games because we know you will probably be playing those (hell, some of those bigger indie games are even console-launch exclusives to the Switch). Again: The title of the thread is not what the topic is actually about. You're just talking about EPD, which is fine, but not the entire picture of a console's year. 



Cerebralbore101 said:

(...)

Edit: Oh and in between all these big releases, give us ports of Windwaker HD, Twilight Princess HD, and Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Cerebralbore101 said:

People buy new game systems to play new games, not old games.

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Doctor_MG said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Four to five high quality hitters beats lazy ports, non-games like Mario Kart AR, and C tier releases like Mystery Dungeon and Paper Mario.

Also, obviously Nintendo would have more than that in those years. I kept it to the good stuff that is worth buying.

Thank you for clarifying. Still, I'd say that the thread should be about all first party game output, then judge the output based on that. Quality is so subjective, one person might buy everything and another might buy nothing. Even going by what is GOING to sell isn't a good indicator, as you mention Monolith Soft in your list, but consider Paper Mario and Mystery Dungeon to be C tier when they've both sold more than games in the Xenoblade franchise. 

The Wii's 2011-2012 was awful because there were next to no first party games in general. 2011 was Skyward Sword, Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Poke Park 2, Rhythm Heaven Fever, Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street. For 2012 it was just Mario Party 9 and Kirby Collection. Even 2020 beats that abysmal lineup I would say, based on both quality and quantity. Do you really think that the next few years for Switch will be even worse than 2020?

Well I'm starting to think that. I'm afraid that, that is the shitty times we live in. I want to hope that Nintendo has amazing output for 2021. But I just have this deep seated fear that Nintendo is just going to blow it this year. I want to be wrong. Nothing would make me happier.

Quality is subjective, but that doesn't make it irrelevant to the conversation. Without taking quality into account almost every system ever made was amazing with a high amount of games released for it. I mean, if somebody were to toss quality out the window, then 3DO can be said to be a good system since it got 200 games released to it.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Four to five high quality hitters beats lazy ports, non-games like Mario Kart AR, and C tier releases like Mystery Dungeon and Paper Mario.

Also, obviously Nintendo would have more than that in those years. I kept it to the good stuff that is worth buying.

See the issue here is, you're modelling this thread after your personal play pattern. Which is fine, but then it just makes it odd that you exclude third party games, third party exclusives, and indie games because we know you will probably be playing those (hell, some of those bigger indie games are even console-launch exclusives to the Switch). Again: The title of the thread is not what the topic is actually about. You're just talking about EPD, which is fine, but not the entire picture of a console's year. 

Yeah, I've been meaning to respond to that. The title of the thread and the OP are not contradictory. The title does fail to summarize my position though. I guess I should have called it "Hey you guys, I'm really worried that the quality of Nintendo's first party output will drop drastically for the final 3 years of the Switch's life cycle. I'm starting to think that they will only have 2 quality 1st party titles a year for the rest of Switch life cycle." But that would have been too damned long. There's lots of books out there where the title doesn't properly summarize the book as well. It just happens. I hoped that people would read the OP, and understand my position but some people in this thread clearly skimmed over it. Others on the other hand have offered up good rebuttals (most of which I haven't responded to because they make good cases, and I desperately want to be proved wrong by Nintendo).

P.S. I know full well that Switch is going to have an insane year with 3rd party content. Both in terms of quality and in terms of sales. I guess I should have made that clearer in my OP. But I always have this trouble predicting how my posts will be interpreted. I feel like I'm saying Pizza is good, and then people come out with "So you think all Italian food is superior to Chinese food huh?".

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 15 January 2021

Cerebralbore101 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

See the issue here is, you're modelling this thread after your personal play pattern. Which is fine, but then it just makes it odd that you exclude third party games, third party exclusives, and indie games because we know you will probably be playing those (hell, some of those bigger indie games are even console-launch exclusives to the Switch). Again: The title of the thread is not what the topic is actually about. You're just talking about EPD, which is fine, but not the entire picture of a console's year. 

Yeah, I've been meaning to respond to that. The title of the thread and the OP are not contradictory. The title does fail to summarize my position though. I guess I should have called it "Hey you guys, I'm really worried that the quality of Nintendo's first party output will drop drastically for the final 3 years of the Switch's life cycle. I'm starting to think that they will only have 2 quality 1st party titles a year for the rest of Switch life cycle." But that would have been too damned long. There's lots of books out there where the title doesn't properly summarize the book as well. It just happens. I hoped that people would read the OP, and understand my position but some people in this thread clearly skimmed over it. Others on the other hand have offered up good rebuttals (most of which I haven't responded to because they make good cases, and I desperately want to be proved wrong by Nintendo).

P.S. I know full well that Switch is going to have an insane year with 3rd party content. Both in terms of quality and in terms of sales. I guess I should have made that clearer in my OP. But I always have this trouble predicting how my posts will be interpreted. I feel like I'm saying Pizza is good, and then people come out with "So you think all Italian food is superior to Chinese food huh?".

It's really not that hard. All you had to title it was "I think EPD won't release many notable games in the next few years". 

I mean honestly, even then you'd get criticism because there's not that much to support the theory, but it at least would make more sense as a thread. It doesn't help that you included stuff like Bayonetta 3 or New Pokemon Snap, either, because those aren't games made by Nintendo, they're just games Nintendo funds. So there's already a bit of contradiction between parts of the OP. I know you kind of address it, but you didn't actually excuse it, you just mentioned it was the case. I think if we include games like that, stuff like Feel-Good games (I have a feeling they might release another one) or mainline Pokemons have no reason to not be listed. In fact, a lot of Nintendo's late support of their systems is third party developed games that fall under Nintendo IP, like Fire Emblem, Pokemon, and Kirby. So not including stuff like that but including Bayonetta 3 or New Pokemon Snap is just ... weird ... unless you actually think those won't release. 



This certainly is a thread...
With some takes...



Cerebralbore101 said:

And here's my not so pessimistic timetable. I think this one is less likely, but this is the sort of timetable I would prefer Nintendo to have for 2021-2023 first party game development.

1st Half of 2021

3D World + Bowser's Fury (With Bowser's Fury being a 20 hour long adventure).
Poke'mon Snap 2 (Winds up getting 80 to 90 on average on opencritic. Winds up being three times the length of the original Poke'mon Snap.)

2nd Half of 2021

BotW2
Bayo 3
Diamond/Pearl Remakes (With a large portion of the OU Smogon Bracket brought back. All Diamond/Pearl Poke's are now usable in Sword/Shield.)

1st Half of 2022


A new game from Monolithsoft
A remake of Oracle of Ages/Seasons

2nd Half of 2022


Odyssey 2
A New Fire Emblem Game
A new game from Next Level Games

1st Half of 2023

Metroid Prime 4

2nd Half of 2023

Mario Kart 9
Splatoon 3 or something else from  the Animal Crossing/Splatoon team.
An entirely new Poke'mon game.

2024

Launch Switch 2

Edit: Oh and in between all these big releases, give us ports of Windwaker HD, Twilight Princess HD, and Xenoblade Chronicles X.

I think you are confusing 'Nintendo isn't releasing anything first party' with 'Nintendo isn't releasing anything first party that I want to buy '. Assumptions that Nintendo is only going to release 2-3 games per year make no sense otherwise, because Nintendo has always released more than that even in their slowest years. Yeah, that might be the number of big name projects, but they always do mid and small-tier games also.