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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital Foundry - Dirt 5

KratosLives said:
shikamaru317 said:

Even if they claimed that, it seems highly doubtful based on their results here. There is nothing in the specs that suggests that the gap in performance on a multiplat should be in favor of the PS5, the latest stats have the Series X beating the PS5 in just about every on-paper metric, CPU speed, RAM speed, bus width, pixels per second, texels per second, triangles per second, rays per second. At the very least Series X and PS5 should have near identical performance. The only thing that can explain a performance gap like we're seeing on these launch games is simply bad optimization on Series X, and the best explanation for poor optimization, on games like AC and Dirt 5, which Microsoft had the marketing rights on, is that dev kits and dev tools released too late for developers to optimize properly ahead of release.

Yes it's still early in the console generation, on specs it seems like xbox should atleast be on par if not slightly better. However ps5 has the ssd advantage, has unified ram but not split, and supposedly better i/o system. if ps5 does indeed have the better i/o, then it may over come the cu count advantage/teraflop of the series x.

The Series X has unified memory, it's not split pools.
It has different memory locations which operate at different speeds which are exposed to developers to prioritize depending on need. Or not. Entirely up to them.

The SSD will assist in streaming of texturing and meshes and other assets... This has been a "thing" in consoles for generations now, it's not a new concept, just the storage has gotten faster.
The Playstation 5 has a higher pixel fillrate due to it's ROP's being clocked higher.
I expect the Playstation 5 to have a few notable advantages because of those hardware advantages.

Otherwise in pure compute scenarios the Xbox Series X not only has the brute-strength advantage but also some efficiency advantages such as Variable Rate Shading which gives it the edge for things like global illumination lighting and shading.

So it really depends on the game and the developers goals and even the game engine on which hardware platform will have the edge visually.
It's going to be a very interesting console generation that is for sure.

In the end... An SSD isn't a replacement for Ram though, computer systems have a hierarchy of memory ranging from smallest+fastest+most expensive per byte to largest+slowest+cheapest per byte... And that hierarchy exists to hide latency and bandwidth limitations.
The SSD improves that lowest common denominator, excited to see what it means for geometric complexity going forward.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Lol I had to depart this thread the minute I saw people calling DF bias... they literally give the most detailed breakdown and contextualise the result when they think it's something that will be/can be fixed with a patch. Happened with DMC5 too. The only bias here is some of you desperately wanting for them to come and shit on the hardware of the system you don't support. The only concern I had was them potentially spending a bit too much time singing the praises of VRR, a feature 99% of gamers and 4k tvs being sold can't utilise but they did acknowledge that studios cannot rely on it. I'm not buying another TV just to get VRR, so for me it's a next-next gen feature (PS6/Xbox Series 6 & 7)

But anyway glad the Devs have an update ready to go live, no reason for the Series X version to be running Car LODs at the last gen level. The bug that's causing PS5 to clamp colours is actually making it look better lol, although maybe you miss out on info when you're actually viewing in HDR



So no cinematic 4k30fps mode?



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Pemalite said:
KratosLives said:

Yes it's still early in the console generation, on specs it seems like xbox should atleast be on par if not slightly better. However ps5 has the ssd advantage, has unified ram but not split, and supposedly better i/o system. if ps5 does indeed have the better i/o, then it may over come the cu count advantage/teraflop of the series x.

The Series X has unified memory, it's not split pools.
It has different memory locations which operate at different speeds which are exposed to developers to prioritize depending on need. Or not. Entirely up to them.

The SSD will assist in streaming of texturing and meshes and other assets... This has been a "thing" in consoles for generations now, it's not a new concept, just the storage has gotten faster.
The Playstation 5 has a higher pixel fillrate due to it's ROP's being clocked higher.
I expect the Playstation 5 to have a few notable advantages because of those hardware advantages.

Otherwise in pure compute scenarios the Xbox Series X not only has the brute-strength advantage but also some efficiency advantages such as Variable Rate Shading which gives it the edge for things like global illumination lighting and shading.

So it really depends on the game and the developers goals and even the game engine on which hardware platform will have the edge visually.
It's going to be a very interesting console generation that is for sure.

In the end... An SSD isn't a replacement for Ram though, computer systems have a hierarchy of memory ranging from smallest+fastest+most expensive per byte to largest+slowest+cheapest per byte... And that hierarchy exists to hide latency and bandwidth limitations.
The SSD improves that lowest common denominator, excited to see what it means for geometric complexity going forward.

What about the ps5 having double throughput?  What will that mean for games in the future? Also we still don't know much of the i/o complex on the ps5, or how much L cache it has.



KratosLives said:

What about the ps5 having double throughput?  What will that mean for games in the future? Also we still don't know much of the i/o complex on the ps5, or how much L cache it has.

Double the throughput on the SSD? Again that brings with it benefits for texturing and meshes like I outlined in my previous post.

The cache conundrum isn't enough to makeup for the compute discrepancy regardless of how much/little it is, it could increase the performance gap it might decrease it.
No point speculating on stuff we don't know, only stuff we do know.



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shikamaru317 said:

Either way, we will know within a few months at least. If the delayed tools and dev kit rumors are true, we should see some performance patches for these launch games over the next few weeks that close the gap with PS5, with newly released 3rd parties over the next few months starting to show a smaller gap between PS5 and XSX and an eventual performance lead for XSX as time goes on. If things stay the way they are for the next few months in terms of 3rd party multiplat performance, we'll pretty much know that MS made some kind of bottlenecking design blunder. 

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/

"Q: What is it like developing on Xbox Series X?

A: Transitioning development to a new console platform, like Xbox Series X, is usually very painful. You have to deal with new tools, new workflows, new ways of thinking. This time around the team at Xbox brought me a new toolset called the Game Development Kit, which they already had up and running on Xbox One.

This meant that we could make the transition much earlier. In fact, we started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware. This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.

For me, the most important thing in making a videogame is the relationships. Working with Xbox, is a partnership – the team at Xbox is committed to helping us make a great videogame and they’ve shown that to me again and again. That means being open and honest about our experiences; what we’ve loved and perhaps even what we’ve found difficult in development has had meaningful, visible impact on the updates that I get for the tools for Series X. (Shout out to our development partner at Xbox, Richard Hackett! Thanks Rich!)

I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with."

- Technical Director at Codemasters David Springate  (direct quote)

This is straigth from the dev's on dirt 5's on mouths.

Praiseing how early they had a dev kit, how much they loved the new GDK, and how it allowed them a easy "jump start" on next gen developement.


This was from back in early june (dirt5 devs):

People keep saying "tools fault" , "they didnt have dev kits in time" ect.

Dirt 5 devs, praised both the toolset, and how easy to use it was, and claim to have had plenty of time with dev kits.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 22 November 2020

Almost 24 hours and the Youtube 1080p-video with bad compression artifacts still looks like shit, 1440p- and 2160p-videos still missing.



shikamaru317 said:

Devs are working on a patch that fixes many of the things in the video they say. Hopefully DF tests the patch once it's out, interested to see if it's enough to close the gap with PS5.

Seems like Xbox is kinda shifting the blame to devs, and they themselves don't say the tools were late.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

lol, that isn’t an Xbox account that’s just some console warrior fan.



LudicrousSpeed said:

lol, that isn’t an Xbox account that’s just some console warrior fan.

And the username was available? What is the official Xbox Studios twitter?

EDIT: I really don't like impersonators and people that lock domains and the like from the real owner.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 22 November 2020

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."