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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital Foundry - Dirt 5

Well without zooming in to silly levels the difference is night and day no two ways about it. MS need to get their act together. Great that PS5 owners get the definitive edition at launch. I hope it gets fixed when I get my XX since this was going to be one of my launch games.



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foodfather said:

Well without zooming in to silly levels the difference is night and day no two ways about it. MS need to get their act together. Great that PS5 owners get the definitive edition at launch. I hope it gets fixed when I get my XX since this was going to be one of my launch games.

I would say the biggest problem here isn't that PS5 version looks to good, it is that Xbox looks to poor. Dirt 5 didn't really put a great show at all imho. Let's hope the patch at least make the game good enough.



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JRPGfan said:
shikamaru317 said:

Either way, we will know within a few months at least. If the delayed tools and dev kit rumors are true, we should see some performance patches for these launch games over the next few weeks that close the gap with PS5, with newly released 3rd parties over the next few months starting to show a smaller gap between PS5 and XSX and an eventual performance lead for XSX as time goes on. If things stay the way they are for the next few months in terms of 3rd party multiplat performance, we'll pretty much know that MS made some kind of bottlenecking design blunder. 

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/

"Q: What is it like developing on Xbox Series X?

A: Transitioning development to a new console platform, like Xbox Series X, is usually very painful. You have to deal with new tools, new workflows, new ways of thinking. This time around the team at Xbox brought me a new toolset called the Game Development Kit, which they already had up and running on Xbox One.

This meant that we could make the transition much earlier. In fact, we started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware. This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.

For me, the most important thing in making a videogame is the relationships. Working with Xbox, is a partnership – the team at Xbox is committed to helping us make a great videogame and they’ve shown that to me again and again. That means being open and honest about our experiences; what we’ve loved and perhaps even what we’ve found difficult in development has had meaningful, visible impact on the updates that I get for the tools for Series X. (Shout out to our development partner at Xbox, Richard Hackett! Thanks Rich!)

I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with."

- Technical Director at Codemasters David Springate  (direct quote)

This is straight from the dev's on dirt 5's on mouths.

Praiseing how early they had a dev kit, how much they loved the new GDK, and how it allowed them a easy "jump start" on next gen developement.

This was from back in early june (dirt5 devs):

https://i.imgur.com/1mnloqR.jpg

People keep saying "tools fault" , "they didnt have dev kits in time" ect.

Dirt 5 devs, praised both the toolset, and how easy to use it was, and claim to have had plenty of time with dev kits.

I wouldn't expect a developer, especially one with Xbox marketing, to come out and say bad stuff about the tools, and definitely not on the Xbox Wire blog, Lol.

The early tools were leaked quite a while back by Thurrot, a reputable Microsoft insider.

With the next generation of the Xbox console, Microsoft is working on a new development environment called Game Core. The environment is now available to developers building titles for the series X and series S (Lockhart) but it’s not quite finished yet and won’t be finished before the release of the upcoming consoles.

(Essentially they changed from XDK to SDK).

The purpose of Game Core is two-fold, to make it easier to develop games for the two SKUs of series X/S and it is designed to make game development closer to that of building a traditional Windows 10 application.

(It wasn't until June 2020 when the GDK could be used for certification).

This doesn’t mean that there will not be more updates arriving to the GDK before release, but it does mean that the June 2020 GDK will be the baseline for developing next-generation titles.

Considering Game Core is all new, not everything will be ready for the launch of the consoles. While developers can now use the June 2020 release for games that will head to retail, features like “Multi-process games in Game Core” will not arrive until after launch. There is a work-around for this in the current release, so fret not that this means games can’t be multi-threaded.

The takeaway here is that Microsoft’s Game Core is moving full-steam ahead and will be ready for launch later this year. But it’s not complete and there are quite a few bugs/optimization that need to be worked out before all the functionality meets the targeted spec sheet when the project was first started.

https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core

Regarding Dirt 5, Digital Foundry are pretty sure it is a bug so lets wait and see (And, not aimed at you, but can we stop the accusations of bias towards Digital Foundry? It's not a good look for VGChartz or any user saying it, Digital Foundry are accused of bias and harassed by every console warrior).

This is definitely a bad look for Xbox marketing, they look dumb right now but it is likely a temporary issue, lets wait longer than 12 days after launch before making any assumptions.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 22 November 2020

COKTOE said:
sales2099 said:

It is what it is, but at least the XSX ain’t no Cell processor. Just hope it’s sooner rather then later.

"It is what it is"....Amazing breakdown. I said the same thing a few days ago when I took a sloppy, shit-shotgun crap right after taking a shower. It was everywhere....But Whatrugondu? No amount of spot cleaning was going to remedy that situation to my satisfaction. Shower again. Because it is what it is. That's a more appropriate use of that particular idiom.

And again. travelling back two gens to take a jab at PS in a post for....REASONS? Like this one.

-"And Hiku, fair enough. We just heard that Xbox gave out their full dev kit suite as late as June of this year. So if I must wait to gloat, then so be it. Ugh...feel like a PS3 fan saying “just wait” with teh Cell to kick in. I’ve become everything I hate lol.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9246101

So, you're trying to draw people into arguments about the Cell, in threads dedicated to the PS5 and XBSX? Jesus tapdancing Christ.

I wasn’t aware I had to give a detailed breakdown. I’m saying Series X won’t take so long for devs to master. And as a Xbox gamer I hope the games reflect the system capabilities sooner rather then later. That’s quite the response for a small post. Classic Xbox fan persecution :p 



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thismeintiel said:

As for bias, if you can't see that DF is obviously biased for MS, that probably says a a lot about your own biases. 

I think this statement only says a lot about your own bias. "Lol it's obvious" no it's not.



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How about his claim, MS?



JRPGfan said:
shikamaru317 said:

Either way, we will know within a few months at least. If the delayed tools and dev kit rumors are true, we should see some performance patches for these launch games over the next few weeks that close the gap with PS5, with newly released 3rd parties over the next few months starting to show a smaller gap between PS5 and XSX and an eventual performance lead for XSX as time goes on. If things stay the way they are for the next few months in terms of 3rd party multiplat performance, we'll pretty much know that MS made some kind of bottlenecking design blunder. 

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/

"Q: What is it like developing on Xbox Series X?

A: Transitioning development to a new console platform, like Xbox Series X, is usually very painful. You have to deal with new tools, new workflows, new ways of thinking. This time around the team at Xbox brought me a new toolset called the Game Development Kit, which they already had up and running on Xbox One.

This meant that we could make the transition much earlier. In fact, we started doing the groundwork for Xbox Series X development long before we even received the hardware. This kind of thinking from Xbox allowed us to get a real head-start on next-gen development, so after receiving our early Xbox Series X hardware, we were up and running really quickly.

For me, the most important thing in making a videogame is the relationships. Working with Xbox, is a partnership – the team at Xbox is committed to helping us make a great videogame and they’ve shown that to me again and again. That means being open and honest about our experiences; what we’ve loved and perhaps even what we’ve found difficult in development has had meaningful, visible impact on the updates that I get for the tools for Series X. (Shout out to our development partner at Xbox, Richard Hackett! Thanks Rich!)

I’ve never worked on a console launch where, while we’re still months away from release, the tools have been this mature, this stable, this easy to work with."

- Technical Director at Codemasters David Springate  (direct quote)

This is straigth from the dev's on dirt 5's on mouths.

Praiseing how early they had a dev kit, how much they loved the new GDK, and how it allowed them a easy "jump start" on next gen developement.


This was from back in early june (dirt5 devs):

People keep saying "tools fault" , "they didnt have dev kits in time" ect.

Dirt 5 devs, praised both the toolset, and how easy to use it was, and claim to have had plenty of time with dev kits.

Did you ever think maybe they were lying and only singing praises to MS because MS paid for the marketing rights on Dirt 5? We've staright up had other developers say that the tools were late and radically redesigned compared to what they were used to on Xbox One *shrugs* Like I said, we will find out within a few months, if these launch games get patches that bring the Series X versions in line with the PS5, and if newly released 3rd parties in the coming months show smaller PS5 advantages and an eventual Xbox lead over time, we will know that it was a late tools/devkits thing. I can wait a few months to find out, I'm not in a rush to see which console is the real performance king this gen, can you wait to find out?



DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

Devs are working on a patch that fixes many of the things in the video they say. Hopefully DF tests the patch once it's out, interested to see if it's enough to close the gap with PS5.

Seems like Xbox is kinda shifting the blame to devs, and they themselves don't say the tools were late.

Xbox Studio is a fan twitter account, not affiliated with MS at all.



thismeintiel said:

As for bias, if you can't see that DF is obviously biased for MS, that probably says a a lot about your own biases. During the 360/PS3 era it was all positives for 360 in comparisons. Looking at any fine detail on PS3 games to show how they were inferior. When the PS4 was on top we got excuses for the XBO, questioning if resolution was really that important. An ever slight frame or two advantage on the XBO was more important than a increase in resolution from 720p/900p to 1080p. Usually ending each comparison by saying you'll be happy on either console, when before they were saying which console they recommended to get the game on. The 2nd the XBO X came out, it was here to "save the day."

Now we jump to this gen. DF were helping spread the FUD about PS5's variable clock rate, even having a flawed comparison using RDNA1 chips. When MS showed off their poor looking flagship title, Halo Infinite, quickly they had an excuse vid out, claiming most of the problem was a lack of raytracing. When people pointed out many other things, Alex said he was just too tired to go into it all. Keep in mind, this was just after zooming in really close on PS5 footage to show the raytracing reflections were lower quality or were missing objects. And now after we've had a few next-gen comparisons where they seemed pleasantly surprised about PS5 outperforming XSX, in this video they sound more troubled by it. It's almost as if they either realize that they shouldn't be excited by a system punching above its weight or they were told it's something they shouldn't seem excited by.

Just ask yourself, where are any of the videos making excuses for the way any game performs or looks on PlayStation?

This is really unwarranted criticism thrown at Digital Foundry.

These guys are the exact opposite of what a console fanboy is - like a good number of people on this forum. They dont appear to sway either way in my opinion, and I've noticed that guys who call things straight often get called out ONLY by those who dont.

And what many people here are describing as excuses, I say its more common sense and a little bit of good will. 



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numberwang said:

How about his claim, MS?

With all due respect...
indeed, Series S situation is shameful for microsoft. Results shown so far prove that the "model S" is a disappointment, the difference between an S and a PS5DE is absolutely monstrous, with a difference of just $ 100 in price.
My conclusion? Series S is a product designed to catch unsuspecting consumers who only look at the price, anyone with an understanding should opt for a PS5DE / PS5 / XSX.



Prediction: In 5 years Nintendo will Lauch a "Core Mario game"  very similar to Astro Bot. That said, many will Ignore Astro Bot existence and say Nintendo created this concept.