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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS5 vs Series X performance - A dev opinion

Kyuu said:

Oh of course the people in denial will continue to damage control this after all the embarrassing "MUCH MORE POWERFUL!!" nonsense leading up to the launch (Full RDNA2 of incredible 12 TFLOPS, faster RAM, consistent frequency, native 4K across the board, Velocity Architecture, VRS tier 2, Mesh Shading, DirectX12U, Machine Learning, 13 TFLOPS of hardware-accelerated RT, 1080p UI frees up more RAM for games!). In a few years... we'll see similar bullshit being touted again about the greatness of Xbox Series XXL or whatever MS is going to call their mid-gen refresh.

It's been clear all along that PS5 is the better designed, more efficient and impressive system as far as early developer perceptions go, and that diplomacy/NDA's were working in Microsoft's favor. Jason Schreier confidently and with complete certainty reported that the countless developers he's in touch with were in a universal agreement that PS5 is "so superior" in a number of aspects, some of which Sony didn't detail, But "Nuh, Jason is a Sony shill". RedGamingTech? "Another Shill!", Ali Salehi? "CryTeK FiReD HIm foR LyING!"

Those fucking morons can't make a distinction between a respectable source and a random nobody.

Nobody with with a functioning brain said the series X would have a huge power advantage. I could just as easily pull out some of the absurd bs sony fans have been saying/defending leading up to launch, but I'm sure you'll skim over all of that. 

What happens when the next comparison comes out with the Series X performing better? These comparisons will be happening all gen and either side claiming victory after a week into next-gen is the really moron. I can tell you right now, it will be a case-by-case bases for each game. 



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zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:

The dev is talking about ease of use, not power. Series X is still more powerful regardless of how anyone spins it. The devkits are easier to use for PS5 than Series X, hence why devs were complaining about getting dev kits late from MS, so likely Xbox is lagging behind in that sense. At the end of the day, the difference between both consoles were always going to be minimal and that is how it has turned out. Just like how everyone was saying ps5 SSD is 100% faster than Xbox and we would see loading times twice as fast on ps5, but looking at real world examples it ends up being 1-3 seconds difference or Series X loading faster in cases.

for the SDK being late, basically Codemaster dev denies it and say both devkits were hot and the difference would be dev experience with them (and well you can't say they didn't had time to adapt to DirectX12), unless you want to say Sony SDK are better.

And the interview the dev in OP talks about power and how to use it, and that even though on paper Xbox is stronger 12>10 but if that can't be used because of other aspects of the HW limiting it use (besides tool and experience) you may end up not touching that difference. And goes on to say that what he expect is that Xbox due to the higher CU and Tflop will push pixels easier but other aspects of IQ on the game PS5 may have an advantage due to the customizations.

He goes on the brag a lot more about PS5 then that and his bias is as clear as day no wonder his original post was removed.

I mean just look at some of his topics.

"Doesn't this difference decline at the end of the generation, when developers become more familiar with the Series X hardware?

No, because the PlayStation API generally gives devs more freedom, and usually at the end of each generation, Sony consoles produce more detailed games. For example, in the early seventh generation, even multi-platform games for both consoles performed poorly on the PlayStation 3. But late in the generation Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us came out on the console. I think the next generation will be the same."

This is just too funny so Only PS5 can expect such improvements at the end of the gen.. But this next part is what makes it even more funny and showes his bias.

"Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?

Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first."

Yep. The is so much more that can be pointed out in that post to show how biased he is but ill leave anyone else who wants to look to decide for themselfs.

Also Don That guy from Codemasters didnt shoot down anything. Please show where he said MS XDK was fully developed and not just that its "Still good as it is". If anything if its this good compared to Sonys SDK and its early that should be a good thing right?. I mean when he is literally asked are things missing in the MS GDK that he would like to use he says Yes but i cant tell you about that yet...

I would guess you can see why you think he is biased right?

The Codemaster did shoot down, when he say both SDKs were on similar situation "on hot", then it can't be used to justify Xbox multiplat performing worse because the SDK was less mature.

And about missing features on the MS SDK, are you going the route of only MS SDK will improve over time and the same stuff that was said for Xbox the whole gen but never came to fruition? Because let's remember that this gen X1 was always underperforming compared to PS4 and no amount of secret sauce, DX12, and all the rest that was said to close the gap and show Xbox was stronger ever showed up.

smroadkill15 said:
Kyuu said:

Oh of course the people in denial will continue to damage control this after all the embarrassing "MUCH MORE POWERFUL!!" nonsense leading up to the launch (Full RDNA2 of incredible 12 TFLOPS, faster RAM, consistent frequency, native 4K across the board, Velocity Architecture, VRS tier 2, Mesh Shading, DirectX12U, Machine Learning, 13 TFLOPS of hardware-accelerated RT, 1080p UI frees up more RAM for games!). In a few years... we'll see similar bullshit being touted again about the greatness of Xbox Series XXL or whatever MS is going to call their mid-gen refresh.

It's been clear all along that PS5 is the better designed, more efficient and impressive system as far as early developer perceptions go, and that diplomacy/NDA's were working in Microsoft's favor. Jason Schreier confidently and with complete certainty reported that the countless developers he's in touch with were in a universal agreement that PS5 is "so superior" in a number of aspects, some of which Sony didn't detail, But "Nuh, Jason is a Sony shill". RedGamingTech? "Another Shill!", Ali Salehi? "CryTeK FiReD HIm foR LyING!"

Those fucking morons can't make a distinction between a respectable source and a random nobody.

Nobody with with a functioning brain said the series X would have a huge power advantage. I could just as easily pull out some of the absurd bs sony fans have been saying/defending leading up to launch, but I'm sure you'll skim over all of that. 

What happens when the next comparison comes out with the Series X performing better? These comparisons will be happening all gen and either side claiming victory after a week into next-gen is the really moron. I can tell you right now, it will be a case-by-case bases for each game. 

Do you perceive that all your attacks reflects on yourself right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

All Devs are not created equal and early games not fully optimized for either system is not a barometer of the power difference or even the advantages of each system will bare. Case in point would be the 360 vs PS3. Either way, I stopped caring about this stuff a long time ago and only care how good a game plays and looks. Anything where you need to measure in millseconds or have to zoom to find a slight difference not going to matter to any one outside of the console war.I believe we will all be waiting on the true first party games that built from the ground up with each hardware features in play before we see any real difference between the platforms. What I am really interested in is the PS5 controller. I want to see how good it is and this could really be the game changer not any of the other internal hardware pieces.



smroadkill15 said:

The dev is talking about ease of use, not power. Series X is still more powerful regardless of how anyone spins it. The devkits are easier to use for PS5 than Series X, hence why devs were complaining about getting dev kits late from MS, so likely Xbox is lagging behind in that sense. At the end of the day, the difference between both consoles were always going to be minimal and that is how it has turned out. Just like how everyone was saying ps5 SSD is 100% faster than Xbox and we would see loading times twice as fast on ps5, but looking at real world examples it ends up being 1-3 seconds difference or Series X loading faster in cases.

In part yes.... he is saying thats part of why the differnce between the two is so small.

Its much easier to get a PS5 to reach close to full usage of its hardware potental, and sustain it, than it is with a xbox series X.
So much so, that games might actually run better on a PS5 (reguardless of the 12 is bigger than 10, number list wars).

^ this is his point (so not only ease of use), its related to power too (how well a console runs games).

He basically claims theres near no differnce in performance between the two due to x,y,z  (effeciency).


"Series X is still more powerful regardless of how anyone spins it." - Smroadkill15

^ this dev, says it doesnt matter, because of how hard to sustain that level of usage of the hardware is.
in the real world applications, the differnce basically doesnt excist (his opinion and other devs he talked too).
(he puts it down to various differnt things, but thats what the dev says)

"despite the differences in CU count, the two consoles’ performance is almost the same." - Ali Salehi  (the dev in OP)



smroadkill15 said:
Kyuu said:

Oh of course the people in denial will continue to damage control this after all the embarrassing "MUCH MORE POWERFUL!!" nonsense leading up to the launch (Full RDNA2 of incredible 12 TFLOPS, faster RAM, consistent frequency, native 4K across the board, Velocity Architecture, VRS tier 2, Mesh Shading, DirectX12U, Machine Learning, 13 TFLOPS of hardware-accelerated RT, 1080p UI frees up more RAM for games!). In a few years... we'll see similar bullshit being touted again about the greatness of Xbox Series XXL or whatever MS is going to call their mid-gen refresh.

It's been clear all along that PS5 is the better designed, more efficient and impressive system as far as early developer perceptions go, and that diplomacy/NDA's were working in Microsoft's favor. Jason Schreier confidently and with complete certainty reported that the countless developers he's in touch with were in a universal agreement that PS5 is "so superior" in a number of aspects, some of which Sony didn't detail, But "Nuh, Jason is a Sony shill". RedGamingTech? "Another Shill!", Ali Salehi? "CryTeK FiReD HIm foR LyING!"

Those fucking morons can't make a distinction between a respectable source and a random nobody.

Nobody with with a functioning brain said the series X would have a huge power advantage. I could just as easily pull out some of the absurd bs sony fans have been saying/defending leading up to launch, but I'm sure you'll skim over all of that. 

What happens when the next comparison comes out with the Series X performing better? These comparisons will be happening all gen and either side claiming victory after a week into next-gen is the really moron. I can tell you right now, it will be a case-by-case bases for each game. 

Before we had like 5 head-to-head compairisons, between the two systems (so far 4 for PS5, 1 for XSX).

The story line was one carried by Xbox.

12 teraflops > 10 teraflops, ours does native "real" 4k, PS5 doesnt have hardware raytraceing ect ect.

This wasnt some "absurd BS sony/xbox fans" stuff.
It was spread by MS (offical) marketing people too, and basically everyone agree'ed that there would be noticeable differnce in resolution & performance between the two systems.

Mainly because of how hard the 12 > 10, thingy was spread.

Sounds like alot of people are "revising history" now.
Before console launch, very few people (esp from xbox side) where saying it will be a case-by-case bases of compairison.
(vast majority were conviced there would be differnce like the whole 900p vs 1080p (xb1 vs ps4), for this gen, but in Xbox's favor)

Saying it was "only absurb fanboys" is dismissing the reality of what happended leading up to the launch of the two systems.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 18 November 2020

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JRPGfan said:
smroadkill15 said:
Kyuu said:

Oh of course the people in denial will continue to damage control this after all the embarrassing "MUCH MORE POWERFUL!!" nonsense leading up to the launch (Full RDNA2 of incredible 12 TFLOPS, faster RAM, consistent frequency, native 4K across the board, Velocity Architecture, VRS tier 2, Mesh Shading, DirectX12U, Machine Learning, 13 TFLOPS of hardware-accelerated RT, 1080p UI frees up more RAM for games!). In a few years... we'll see similar bullshit being touted again about the greatness of Xbox Series XXL or whatever MS is going to call their mid-gen refresh.

It's been clear all along that PS5 is the better designed, more efficient and impressive system as far as early developer perceptions go, and that diplomacy/NDA's were working in Microsoft's favor. Jason Schreier confidently and with complete certainty reported that the countless developers he's in touch with were in a universal agreement that PS5 is "so superior" in a number of aspects, some of which Sony didn't detail, But "Nuh, Jason is a Sony shill". RedGamingTech? "Another Shill!", Ali Salehi? "CryTeK FiReD HIm foR LyING!"

Those fucking morons can't make a distinction between a respectable source and a random nobody.

Nobody with with a functioning brain said the series X would have a huge power advantage. I could just as easily pull out some of the absurd bs sony fans have been saying/defending leading up to launch, but I'm sure you'll skim over all of that. 

What happens when the next comparison comes out with the Series X performing better? These comparisons will be happening all gen and either side claiming victory after a week into next-gen is the really moron. I can tell you right now, it will be a case-by-case bases for each game. 

Before we had like 5 head-to-head compairisons, between the two systems (so far 4 for PS5, 1 for XSX).

The story line was one carried by Xbox.

12 teraflops > 10 teraflops, ours does native "real" 4k, PS5 doesnt have hardware raytraceing ect ect.

This wasnt some "absurd BS sony/xbox fans" stuff.
It was spread by MS (offical) marketing people too, and basically everyone agree'ed that there would be noticeable differnce in resolution & performance between the two systems.

Mainly because of how hard the 12 > 10, thingy was spread.

Sounds like alot of people are "revising history" now.
Before console launch, very few people (esp from xbox side) where saying it will be a case-by-case bases of compairison.
(vast majority were conviced there would be differnce like the whole 900p vs 1080p (xb1 vs ps4), for this gen, but in Xbox's favor)

No, that is impossible, MS is totally transparent compared to mischeavous Sony.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:

The dev is talking about ease of use, not power. Series X is still more powerful regardless of how anyone spins it. The devkits are easier to use for PS5 than Series X, hence why devs were complaining about getting dev kits late from MS, so likely Xbox is lagging behind in that sense. At the end of the day, the difference between both consoles were always going to be minimal and that is how it has turned out. Just like how everyone was saying ps5 SSD is 100% faster than Xbox and we would see loading times twice as fast on ps5, but looking at real world examples it ends up being 1-3 seconds difference or Series X loading faster in cases.

for the SDK being late, basically Codemaster dev denies it and say both devkits were hot and the difference would be dev experience with them (and well you can't say they didn't had time to adapt to DirectX12), unless you want to say Sony SDK are better.

And the interview the dev in OP talks about power and how to use it, and that even though on paper Xbox is stronger 12>10 but if that can't be used because of other aspects of the HW limiting it use (besides tool and experience) you may end up not touching that difference. And goes on to say that what he expect is that Xbox due to the higher CU and Tflop will push pixels easier but other aspects of IQ on the game PS5 may have an advantage due to the customizations.

He goes on the brag a lot more about PS5 then that and his bias is as clear as day no wonder his original post was removed.

I mean just look at some of his topics.

"Doesn't this difference decline at the end of the generation, when developers become more familiar with the Series X hardware?

No, because the PlayStation API generally gives devs more freedom, and usually at the end of each generation, Sony consoles produce more detailed games. For example, in the early seventh generation, even multi-platform games for both consoles performed poorly on the PlayStation 3. But late in the generation Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us came out on the console. I think the next generation will be the same."

This is just too funny so Only PS5 can expect such improvements at the end of the gen.. But this next part is what makes it even more funny and showes his bias.

"Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?

Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first."

Yep. The is so much more that can be pointed out in that post to show how biased he is but ill leave anyone else who wants to look to decide for themselfs.

Also Don That guy from Codemasters didnt shoot down anything. Please show where he said MS XDK was fully developed and not just that its "Still good as it is". If anything if its this good compared to Sonys SDK and its early that should be a good thing right?. I mean when he is literally asked are things missing in the MS GDK that he would like to use he says Yes but i cant tell you about that yet...

I would guess you can see why you think he is biased right?

The Codemaster did shoot down, when he say both SDKs were on similar situation "on hot", then it can't be used to justify Xbox multiplat performing worse because the SDK was less mature.

And about missing features on the MS SDK, are you going the route of only MS SDK will improve over time and the same stuff that was said for Xbox the whole gen but never came to fruition? Because let's remember that this gen X1 was always underperforming compared to PS4 and no amount of secret sauce, DX12, and all the rest that was said to close the gap and show Xbox was stronger ever showed up.

Changing what i said much? putting words in my mouth?.

Read over what i said again no where did i say only MS's SDK will improve over time. Or anything about secret sauce..

In fact its that dev from in your OP ali something? that says pretty much "Its only Sony consoles that improve over time".

So maybe thats where your getting the mistake? and yes that is pretty biased on his part. Like i said no wonder it was removed, after he looked over it again and seen some of his inconsistency's he prob felt pretty dumb.

You said the SDK rumor wasn't denied, then if you accept that both SDKs will improve and that Codemaster was saying they were in similar state, then you are accepting the SDK rumor was denied no way around that. Because to use SDK as an excuse for the multiplats difference would imply that one of the SDKs is at a worse state. You can't have both.

Nope, he isn't saying that it is only Sony that improves over time. What he is saying is that since the Sony tools are more dedicated to a single system, and it will also improve, you won't see the improvement of MS tools changing the landscape.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

David Springate, technical lead at Codmasters (working on Dirt 5) says he was very happy with Series API (GDK). They worked closely with Microsoft for the game.

Both platforms perform about equally currently and run well which is all that matters.

Last edited by hinch - on 18 November 2020

zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:

I would guess you can see why you think he is biased right?

The Codemaster did shoot down, when he say both SDKs were on similar situation "on hot", then it can't be used to justify Xbox multiplat performing worse because the SDK was less mature.

And about missing features on the MS SDK, are you going the route of only MS SDK will improve over time and the same stuff that was said for Xbox the whole gen but never came to fruition? Because let's remember that this gen X1 was always underperforming compared to PS4 and no amount of secret sauce, DX12, and all the rest that was said to close the gap and show Xbox was stronger ever showed up.

Changing what i said much? putting words in my mouth?.

Read over what i said again no where did i say only MS's SDK will improve over time. Or anything about secret sauce..

In fact its that dev from in your OP ali something? that says pretty much "Its only Sony consoles that improve over time".

So maybe thats where your getting the mistake? and yes that is pretty biased on his part. Like i said no wonder it was removed, after he looked over it again and seen some of his inconsistency's he prob felt pretty dumb.

Your putting words in the dev's mouth.... or didnt read what was said in the interview properly.

He did not say "only playstation SKD will improve overtime" or how developers take advantage of them.
He said, he doesnt believe the differnce (in performance) will shrink, due to say Xbox devs getting better at useing the SKD over time vs the PS5 one.

Thats massively differnt than what your saying he said (after complaining about putting words in peoples mouths).

Basically both units are about equal, in terms of performance, according to this dev at Crytek, from back in April.



hinch said:

David Springate, technical lead at Codmasters (working on Dirt 5) says he was very happy with Series API (GDK). They worked closely with Microsoft for the game.

Both platforms perform about equally currently and run well which is all that matters.

Nope, somewhere the SDK from MS must be less mature to explain the performance not showing up =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."