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Forums - Sony Discussion - TLOU2 is losing steam. Why?

KratosLives said:
Fei-Hung said:

I generally don't watch movies, series, documentaries that are depressing or might leave me feeling down. I don't care how great the last of us two is, it's simply not something I'm interested in due to the story. The same goes for my nephew and a lot of my friends who didn't buy although they bought the original and again as a remaster.

Its a beautiful game, with a heartwrenching story that also shows the bravery and good in people. The game also showcases hope. The game does not end on a depressing note. 

Well it kinda does.

Spoiler!

She lost quite a lot of what reminded her of Joel, her fingers which prevent her from playing the guitar, the emptiness she feels is palpable, especially with the way they handled that feeling (going back to an empty house)... That house belonged to her and Dina where they built a family life of their own, trying to stay away from the need of vengeance and the feelings that come with. Yet even that life was seemingly lost.

That being said, while the emptiness is palpable (both hers and ours, since we all learned to love Joel through the events of the first game and the flashbacks in Part 2) she seems to have come back to that house to make peace with a life that could have been, but ain’t anymore, and say her farewell to Joel. Ending with her finally moving on and most likely going back to Jackson to live a going back to [albeit a post trauma] "normal" life.

While all of this isn’t necessarily completely depressing, most aspects of it are, and the feelings coming off that sequence remain quite heavy throughout. The game clearly doesn’t end on the most positive note and that was the whole point.

Last edited by Hynad - on 27 October 2020

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The game is portraying a post-apocalytic world, so of course it's going to have a 'depressing' theme for flip sake. The first one felt similar. Just because they portray violence doesn't mean they are glorifying it, they are showing the reality of the situation. Are all Scientology documentaries glorifying Scientology? Or  True crime ? Seriously, the world is shit sometimes, and portraying that doesn't eqate to glorifying it.



It was a failure. Even games like Animal crossing, Fall guys and Among us had a better reception than the hyped game. Cyberpunk may face a similar situation.



Pocky Lover Boy! 

Hynad said:
KratosLives said:

Its a beautiful game, with a heartwrenching story that also shows the bravery and good in people. The game also showcases hope. The game does not end on a depressing note. 

Well it kinda does.

Spoiler!

She lost quite a lot of what reminded her of Joel, her fingers which prevent her from playing the guitar, the emptiness she feels is palpable, especially with the way they handled that feeling (going back to an empty house)... That house belonged to her and Dino where they built a family life of their own, trying to stay away from the need of vengeance and the feelings that come with. Yet even that life was seemingly lost.

That being said, while the emptiness is palpable (both hers and ours, since we all learned to love Joel through the events of the first game and the flashbacks in Part 2) she seems to have come back to that house to make peace with a life that could have been, but ain’t anymore, and say her farewell to Joel. Ending with her finally moving on and most likely going back to Jackson to live a going back to [albeit a post trauma] "normal" life.

While all of this isn’t necessarily completely depressing, most aspects of it are, and the feelings coming off that sequence remain quite heavy throughout. The game clearly doesn’t end on the most positive note and that was the whole point.

SPOILER!!  Ellie was able to come to terms with joel's death. It's also very likely that ellie went back to dina, a few hints and story based level motifs/ elements of design suggest ellie would be going back to dina. Ellie  definitely looks set to move on with her past, looks healthier. Part of me believes she has already been back to jacksonville and came back to the house once more. The fact that we don't see ellie reflection on dina/jj, tells me she has been to see them already.

There is hope for ellie in the futute. Also remember that ellie was ready to forgive joel for a massive act, and dina likewise could do the same and be willing to take ellie back. Ellie also saves abby and lev, giving them both a chance of life and abby sets on a course to the fireflies with lev. Another element of a hopeful future.  What would have been depressing if abby and lev died, and the game ended with ellie at the farm unable to get the death of joel and abby out of her mind. The first game ended on a depressing note, and anticlimatic,  this game feels like the opposite.



ND wanted to try something new, bold and mentally and emotionally challenging. Many people weren't ready for that, and I'm not surprised. I myself wasn't at first, I was furious after the leaks but I decided to give the game a chance and in the end it totally blew me away. It turned me around in a way that seemed impossible at first. I don't recall any form of entertainment having done that to me before.
One of the hardest things in life is to try and see things from other people's perspective, especially when you consider them enemies. This actually speaks to the whole of society in the modern climate, where tribalism and total demonizing of people with differing opinions is the name of the game. Letting go of toxic things that have an emotional hold on you is another extremely difficult thing to do. Again, this applies to both the theme of the game and society at large.
Many people didn't want such themes, they were expecting just another adventure with Joel and Ellie, with nothing too upsetting or challenging. I guess there were also those who saw certain elements in the game as "woke agenda" and made that the sticking point for a whole crusade against the game, refusing even to give it a try. The initial outrage with the leaks certainly made it seem like a bigger issue than it really was, it was easy to get caught up in it especially when there's real "wokening" going on with many beloved franchises at the same time. I can say that "wokeness" was not the real agenda here, but something much deeper and complex and it's a shame if people totally pass on the game due to false assumptions.



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I believe it won't sell as the first game and in the long run it won't be as praised.
But to be honest I still see the game being sold at retail almost at full price so there is a long way road for this game to sell. A remaster would also help with sales on PS5.
But overall, in my opinion, the reason why it wont sell as much:
- Director's decision on the story, he himself said the game would be divisive so this is expected, a lot of people that enjoyed the first one would not like the sequel.
- When you throw in politics into an already divisive game it just gets, well, more divisive.
- A story about hope and beauty in a fucked up world is much more compelling than a story about hate, depression and misery in the same world.
- A lot of people consider the story and the way it is told does not make sense and it is forced. I watched a youtube cut changing the ending and the sequence the story is told and I think it is much better.
- Deceptive marketing

In the end, the amount of people saying "duuuuuuude you got to play this game it is my favorite game ever" was probably much larger for the first game.
It will still sell a lot though and easily reach 10M units at least and make a good profit though.



A lot of people in this thread seem to think the criticism this game gets is some kind of hate filled personal vendetta against naughty dog... It's almost as dismissive as saying "anyone who supports this game is a blind fan to naughty dog".

I haven't played the game but reading into it the last couple of weeks, the criticism seems well deserved.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

hatmoza said:
A lot of people in this thread seem to think the criticism this game gets is some kind of hate filled personal vendetta against naughty dog... It's almost as dismissive as saying "anyone who supports this game is a blind fan to naughty dog".

I haven't played the game but reading into it the last couple of weeks, the criticism seems well deserved.

From your last phrase you would seem to fit in the first category of your own comment.

If you haven't played the game then you won't really know if the criticism is well deserved. And sincerely most of those criticism is similar to what happen in most reviews, it is people complaining that their particular expectations and wishes weren't fulfilled. Basically judging a product or game for what they wanted it to be not to what it is. And when you judge anything on that basically everything can be said to be bad and flawed. Since no matter what the game is, if you were really sincere there would be stuff on it that would prefer if different.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kurasakiichimaruALT said:

For a game contending as the game of this generation, it's seriously losing in all aspects from social media mentions to sales trajectory as the legs lag behind other game such as GoW, Spiderman and even Ghost of Tsuhima.

I'm just gonna lay it out for everyone...

What happened?

No dlc releasing, no mp, no new game announcement, thats why its not talked about that much



Hynad said:
KratosLives said:

Its a beautiful game, with a heartwrenching story that also shows the bravery and good in people. The game also showcases hope. The game does not end on a depressing note. 

Well it kinda does.

Spoiler!

She lost quite a lot of what reminded her of Joel, her fingers which prevent her from playing the guitar, the emptiness she feels is palpable, especially with the way they handled that feeling (going back to an empty house)... That house belonged to her and Dino where they built a family life of their own, trying to stay away from the need of vengeance and the feelings that come with. Yet even that life was seemingly lost.

That being said, while the emptiness is palpable (both hers and ours, since we all learned to love Joel through the events of the first game and the flashbacks in Part 2) she seems to have come back to that house to make peace with a life that could have been, but ain’t anymore, and say her farewell to Joel. Ending with her finally moving on and most likely going back to Jackson to live a going back to [albeit a post trauma] "normal" life.

While all of this isn’t necessarily completely depressing, most aspects of it are, and the feelings coming off that sequence remain quite heavy throughout. The game clearly doesn’t end on the most positive note and that was the whole point.

Dino? I mean I know Ellie's into dinosaurs and everything, but seriously? O is on the complete other side of the keyboard from A!

ANYWAY, while that's certainly a valid interpretation (I mean the game's creators themselves have a variety of takes on how the game's ending feels), mine has been that...

Spoiler!

...Ellie's return to the farmhouse takes place long after the events of Santa Barbara (I mean she seems fully healed and everything) and is a relapse of sorts back to her previous state of being unable to forgive (Abby for killing Joel, herself for being alive, Joel for saving her; all layers applicable here); one that the consequences of her own mistake of making the trip to Santa Barbara force her to move past. I think the fact that the developers show Ellie wearing Dina's bracelet now, whereas she wasn't when she left for Santa Barbara, together with other clues, is a hopeful signifier that she and Dina are now living together in Jackson, which, you'll recall, is where Dina really preferred to be in the first place so she could be nearer to her family.

Now the presence of the bracelet in the final moments of the game could also indeed be read as another element of nostalgia that Ellie's experiencing for a lost relationship with Dina at the farmhouse that she needs to move on from now, but every time I play through this game, I always experience Dina's presence as representing the very idea of moving on from pain to a brighter future. When Ellie abandons Dina, it represents her inability to move on. In Santa Barbara, a diary entry mentions missing Dina and J.J., conveying a sense of conflict about her decision to leave. Then we have the bracelet present in the final moments of the game. I feel that that symbolizes her ongoing conflicted state and that putting down the guitar represents a definite acceptance (of Abby, of herself, of Joel being gone, all of that). The game is ambiguous about where she's leaving for in the final scene, and I have to feel that the bracelet is there to be a clue, as was the whole bit before about Dina's family being open to them moving back to Jackson.

So, in other words, I read it as a complicated ending that encompasses painful lessons for Ellie, but which also signifies...progress for her. The simple idea of progress may not be the fireworks celebration that maybe some people might have hoped the game would end on, but I think it's honest and I really appreciated that honesty.

Anyway, I still think The Last of Us Part II is a masterpiece, full stop. Like it has impacted my way of viewing the world.