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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft will allow manufacturers other than Seagate to make Xbox expansion cards

Seems fair to recall the outcome of Sony's own proprietary memory format, Memory Stick.
That failed despite being supported across Sony's entire consumer electronics line up.
Sony did licence it to other companies, but as limited market it ultimately never worked out.



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Captain_Yuri said:
I still don't get why it costs so much to begin with. Like the SSD speeds are less than 970 Evos and last gen WD Blacks. If they were like, well 1 TB costs $80 less than a new 1TB Samsung 980 Evo that's needed on the PS5, then that would be a pricing advantage that they can market.

Seagate propriety tax.

Or they might be using 2-bit cells on the NAND for durability reasons rather than 3-bit or 4-bit.

Once other manufacturers jump onboard the price should come down, but it's never going to be as cheap as PC SSD's due to the propriety form factor.



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TheBraveGallade said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

Thunderbolt would've been sick. For many other reasons than PCIe expansion, as 40Gbps might not cut it as you said.

I guess I and others don't see sliding off a panel and putting in 1 screw as a big deal, similar to the PS4 method of sliding off the top left plastic cover and undoing one screw. I like MS's method, only issue is that it's a more expensive option than buying third party hardware. 

remember that most people on this sub would, and most people on this sub probably know how to install RAM/graphics/IO cards onto thier PC, and even  if they haven't would be perfectly able to.

the general public... not so much. in fact sony's solution is likely to induce confusion.

Its probably part of the same reason the switch does NOT support bluetooth headphones, as it can't connect to 8 joycons and do audio at the same time, even if the other technical issues with bluetooth didn't prevent it.

Nah. I don't agree. The general public can build IKEA furniture. They can slide open a panel and put in a stick with a screw.



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ArchangelMadzz said:
TheBraveGallade said:

remember that most people on this sub would, and most people on this sub probably know how to install RAM/graphics/IO cards onto thier PC, and even  if they haven't would be perfectly able to.

the general public... not so much. in fact sony's solution is likely to induce confusion.

Its probably part of the same reason the switch does NOT support bluetooth headphones, as it can't connect to 8 joycons and do audio at the same time, even if the other technical issues with bluetooth didn't prevent it.

Nah. I don't agree. The general public can build IKEA furniture. They can slide open a panel and put in a stick with a screw.

able to and willing to are two different things, I know quite a few people who just buy gaming PCs from people who put the machines together and never open it up, despite the fact that this method costs them 70% more then buying a decent desktop with decent CPU/motherbord and putting everything in



TheBraveGallade said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

Nah. I don't agree. The general public can build IKEA furniture. They can slide open a panel and put in a stick with a screw.

able to and willing to are two different things, I know quite a few people who just buy gaming PCs from people who put the machines together and never open it up, despite the fact that this method costs them 70% more then buying a decent desktop with decent CPU/motherbord and putting everything in

That's very different. If people aren't willing to upgrade their SSD's then they wont' have to. These are the same people that weren't willing to upgrade their internal storage last gen, they still bought consoles. This method of upgrading storage wasn't a dealbreaker to the 113m+ people that bought a PS4.



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Pemalite said:

So yes the Samsung 980 Pro is faster than the Playstation 5 SSD, the PC has compression technology as well, it's just not baked into hardware.

I'm still curious to know what would happen if I inserted a "cheap" 3-4GB/s ssd into the PS5. Would it be refused or would I simply wait 2.56s instead of 1.45s loading a game?



drkohler said:
Pemalite said:

So yes the Samsung 980 Pro is faster than the Playstation 5 SSD, the PC has compression technology as well, it's just not baked into hardware.

I'm still curious to know what would happen if I inserted a "cheap" 3-4GB/s ssd into the PS5. Would it be refused or would I simply wait 2.56s instead of 1.45s loading a game?

This has already been discussed here. If you have lastgen PS4 games, those will be playable directly from any attached drive, since PS4 games don't expect to have high speed SSD and can run just fine off of slow disk drive. You can also store pictures or videos on the slow drive, but PS5 games require being installed on the high speed SSD to play, because that is the baseline expectation for nextgen. Some SSD cards do meet the speed requirement to play games directly off of them, and if you install one of those SSD it will work just like the built in SSD (except giving you more room).

If an expansion drive (SSD or hard drive) doesn't meet Sony's spec (which is actually faster than Sony's built in SSD because reasons) then you can still STORE PS5 games on it, but you can't play the game from that location. You will need to free up space on the built in SSD (or other qualifying SSD), possibly first moving another game FROM the built in SSD to the slower drive with plenty of empty room, and then move the game you want to play from the slower drive to the fast drive so you can play it. Any SSD even if not up to Sony's spec should make the copy process alot faster than a slow hard drive, but it will take a certain amount of time (~10 minutes? this depends on game size and speed of expansion drive) before you can play the game, more so if you want to first move game FROM the fast SSD to the slow storage.

Think of it like you have a stove and you can instantly cook anything on it's 4 burners. You actually have more food than fits on 4 burners and you keep that in your refrigerator. But you can't immediately cook it in the refrigerator, you need to move it to the stove to cook it, and if the stove is already full you need to first move one item into the refridgerator.



mutantsushi said:
drkohler said:

I'm still curious to know what would happen if I inserted a "cheap" 3-4GB/s ssd into the PS5. Would it be refused or would I simply wait 2.56s instead of 1.45s loading a game?

If an expansion drive (SSD or hard drive) doesn't meet Sony's spec (which is actually faster than Sony's built in SSD because reasons) then you can still STORE PS5 games on it, but you can't play the game from that location.

Listen carefully what Cerny said in his talk.

At this point, nothing prevents you from inserting a cheap ssd drive. The only problem is your drive will not fulfill the demands of games especially built for the internal ssd's speed. (Hint: All multiplats might have the XSX's ssd speed as reference....)

So will Sony actually disable "cheap" ssds or not? What would the ambulance chaser faction of America Lawyer Inc. say to that?



Pemalite said:
Captain_Yuri said:
I still don't get why it costs so much to begin with. Like the SSD speeds are less than 970 Evos and last gen WD Blacks. If they were like, well 1 TB costs $80 less than a new 1TB Samsung 980 Evo that's needed on the PS5, then that would be a pricing advantage that they can market.

Seagate propriety tax.

Or they might be using 2-bit cells on the NAND for durability reasons rather than 3-bit or 4-bit.

Once other manufacturers jump onboard the price should come down, but it's never going to be as cheap as PC SSD's due to the propriety form factor.

The SSD port on the Series S/X is proprietary, but it would make things easier if we simply get external enclosures that connect to that port.

I mean they make enclosures to use NVMe on different USB ports. So I maybe an enclosure that simply connects to that SSD port would do the job as well. That would be the most consumer friendly option at this point.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

Seagate propriety tax.

Or they might be using 2-bit cells on the NAND for durability reasons rather than 3-bit or 4-bit.

Once other manufacturers jump onboard the price should come down, but it's never going to be as cheap as PC SSD's due to the propriety form factor.

The SSD port on the Series S/X is proprietary, but it would make things easier if we simply get external enclosures that connect to that port.

I mean they make enclosures to use NVMe on different USB ports. So I maybe an enclosure that simply connects to that SSD port would do the job as well. That would be the most consumer friendly option at this point.

Yeah, that would be nice to see.