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Forums - Sales Discussion - July NPD 2020: Switch 340K, PS4 150K, XB1 17k (rip)

I don't think NSW will be down YoY in the US for Aug-Dec.  I think ACNH caused NSW hardware in US to blow its load and stock was depleted by early May (as reported by Benji + anecdotes).  We saw that once JP stock was depleted it took almost the full quarter for the production increases to pay dividends (crazy swings from Apr-Jun and then now we're seeing elevated baseline in JP since July).

Looks to me like NSW stock in US during Jun/July is in the same place as it was in JP back in May/June, which makes sense.  Increased production should see fruits in JP first and overseas later (because it ran out there quicker and cause of geographical proximity).

Another note is the AC:NSW ratio as I described below.  Using some assumptions (some reasonable, some a little wilder), I pegged AC at 500-800K sales (w/digital) in July US, which is a much higher attach rate than JP has been seeing w/digital in the Jun/July timeframe.  This to me supports the idea that NSW hardware in the US is severely supply constrained right now - it seems unlikely that AC is more relatively popular in the US than it is in JP.  Once the increased production hits the US market again, we'll see an uptick just like Japan - it just depends on when that actually happens.

mk7sx said:
US supply constrained for NSW I would guess.

ACNH is running at 50% digital globally confirmed by Nintendo. Nintendo's reported numbers + Famitsu's retail tracking suggests the upper-end for Digital % in Japan is 30%. W26 retail sell-through = 5,001K and Nintendo shipped + digital units through Jun 30 is 7,150K, so using delta of 2,419K = digital = 30%. In reality this number is lower since there is inventory/transit to account for as well as MyNintendo shop hardware bundles.

That puts non-Japan digital share at about 60% to achieve the 50% ratio globally.

US July NPD had Paper Mario in the 300-450K ballpark for retail. TLOUII and ACNH followed right after that, so upper-end for those is Paper Mario minus one unit and lower-end is zero. TLOUII is physical + digital and ACNH is physical only. No idea how to ball-park a lower range since we have little detail about units/hints for software below those two, but I think we know that TLOUII last month was #2 opening all-time for Sony so that puts it at 1.9M in June. So 75-80% drop in month 2 would peg it at 380-475K.

If ACNH is right behind that in the 2-300K range, then with 60% digital it bumps up to 500-750K. So attach rate for ACNH vs NSW hardware is around 1.5-2.5x, which is way higher than what we see in JP for the same time frame. In JP, NSW sold 422K for July 4 weeks and ACNH 279K in the same frame. Add-in our 30% digital and its at 399K - close to 1:1 attach rate. US is somehow 50-150% ahead of that despite ACNH behing a bigger phenomena/driver in JP, which would suggest that HW supply is capping sales and lagging behind demand (which I suspect is currently enough to sustain ~150K weekly sales).



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Shadow1980 said:

I disagree. I believe the COVID bump is the primary factor in play with the observed YoY gains. While stock is an issue, I think the greater issue is dwindling amounts of money in people's bank accounts to spend on consoles. People got an extra windfall from the $1200 stimulus checks. Assuming they weren't out of a job because of COVID-19 and could afford to spend those checks on non-necessities, I imagine most of them have spent that money.

Let's look at YoY changes in hardware sales so far this year:

The Animal Crossing bump in March is obvious (the PS4 & XBO also saw modest bumps that month, but that could just be statistical noise and/or delayed tax refund spending). Then we saw an across-the-board jump in console sales in April when the stimulus checks first started to arrive. The Switch bump was a bit higher than those of the PS4 & XBO, but not massively so, showing a possible residual effect of AC (though again it could just be statistical noise, or even a consequence of lowered general demand for the PS4 & XBO given their age). It is obvious that the major factor in play for April was the arrival of stimulus checks and ensuing spending spree, the "COVID bump." The PS4 & XBO dropped off quicker than the Switch after April, likely due to being older systems nearing replacement by next-gen systems and thus less stock and general lower demand. But all systems have been on a downward trend in YoY sales since May. That to me seems to be indicative of overall decreased spending on big-ticket items as the population burns through their stimulus checks, not merely a stock issue.

The YoY gains seen in April were not sustainable over a multi-month period. Animal Crossing was the only other stimulative factor for the Switch, but no game has ever produced significant multi-month increases in hardware sales in the U.S. aside from Final Fantasy VII on the PS1, and that was an unusual circumstance. The only other stimulative factor in play was the stimulus checks. The realities of the impact of software on hardware sales in the U.S. (always very short-term except for one historical anomaly) combined with the undeniable effects of the stimulus checks indicates that the latter is the primary cause of the YoY gains seen since April (and almost certainly sole cause since May).

Moving on to 2020 sales as a whole for the Switch, upon further evaluation, you're right that 7.5M should be the floor. 6.5M is indeed too pessimistic, and an error on my part (I looked at the wrong data point when punching numbers into my calculator). 6.5M would be flat from 2019. I had intended to add the YoY surplus of the March-July period with last year's sales as an upper limit. 6.5M would require significant YoY drops (nearly 40%) for the Aug.-Dec. period, and even 7M would be improbable. Assuming the Switch is flat YoY for the Aug.-Dec. period, that would yield approximately 8.25M. So, we should actually see something more like somewhere in the 7.5-8.5M range.

But I think 8.5M is an absolute upper limit, and 7.5-8M is more probable, because I doubt we'll see overall growth for the Aug.-Dec. period. The reason why I think that is because of what the Switch is facing later this year. The Switch experienced some YoY growth last year from the Lite. It produced, perhaps also in conjunction with Pokemon S&S over the holidays, a 15.5% increase over the same 4-month period in 2018. With the way the Switch is declining, it most certainly could experience the necessary 16.78% drop in the last five months of the year needed to reach only 7.5M. Unless there's some major stimulative factor at play later in the year, I think 7.5-8M is the more probable end of the range. If the observed declines in YoY growth cease in the August NPD figures, I will be willing to reevaluate this assessment, but based on what we're currently observing, I think at minimum we'll see non-trivial YoY declines in the Sept.-Dec. period that will erode at least some of the YTD gains.

Well but this change a lot of things lol

7.5-8.5 million seem indeed a far more realistic range, and i can see Switch sales being like this.

However, i still think Switch will be up YOY from August to December, with maybe September being down YOY (aaaand idk abou that)

Demand for Switch right now just seem huge and i think is not only because of COVID (which to be honest, i would prepare for another quarantine lol), but also for Animal Crossing which really, is a phenomenal around the intere world, and Switch lite, which to me seem to be a similar thing to PS4/PS4 pro in 2016/2017: sales during holiday with the launch of Pro were nothing special, but in the first months and even for the intere year of 2017, the boost was clear and PS4 had his best year (talking about a worldwide context no USA only)

I'm thinking we are seeing something similar to Switch and Switch lite, but on steroid because of a way cheaper price and all the current situation.

That said, i'm thinking Switch will do between 8 and 9 million this year in USA.



Switch will only be down YOY this holiday quarter if the stock situation becomes critical or they have no more unannounced releases for the year.

No offense Shadow but you seem to have a consistent trend of underestimating the Switch.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 21 August 2020

this 'downward trend' point for YoY comparisons is completely moot when you consider that switch is literally selling out whatever it ships. we have no real way of gauging how high the demand is right now, all we can say for sure is that it is higher than what the current numbers would indicate.

anyways, i actually do expect switch to be down at least for September, and quite possibly 1 or 2 holiday months depending on supply. Lineup isn't massively important right now as we've seen for the last few months - the huge momentum is coming from an extremely strong stack of evergreens and the ongoing ACNH phenomenon. I mean, japan is seeing record breaking sales every week despite there not being a real hardware-pushing title since march.



Im sure that all that growth for switch is not because of COVID only... Covid played some role but the momentum and the boost from Animal crossing was from an another planet! Besides, I am also sure that Nintendo has kept things to show for the holiday period ... Let's see if this time that Nintendo Direct Rumour is true...



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Shadow1980 said:
Ryng said:

You should realize the only reasons Switch numbers are not much higher is because there are stock ussue. And mostly you are givin too much credit to COVID and Ignoring others factors for Switch being up YOY. Expecting Switch to be down YOY by ~1 million in the second half of the year is unrealistic.

7.5 million should be the floor, not the most optimist scenario.

I disagree. I believe the COVID bump is the primary factor in play with the observed YoY gains. While stock is an issue, I think the greater issue is dwindling amounts of money in people's bank accounts to spend on consoles. People got an extra windfall from the $1200 stimulus checks. Assuming they weren't out of a job because of COVID-19 and could afford to spend those checks on non-necessities, I imagine most of them have spent that money.

Let's look at YoY changes in hardware sales so far this year:

The Animal Crossing bump in March is obvious (the PS4 & XBO also saw modest bumps that month, but that could just be statistical noise and/or delayed tax refund spending). Then we saw an across-the-board jump in console sales in April when the stimulus checks first started to arrive. The Switch bump was a bit higher than those of the PS4 & XBO, but not massively so, showing a possible residual effect of AC (though again it could just be statistical noise, or even a consequence of lowered general demand for the PS4 & XBO given their age). It is obvious that the major factor in play for April was the arrival of stimulus checks and ensuing spending spree, the "COVID bump." The PS4 & XBO dropped off quicker than the Switch after April, likely due to being older systems nearing replacement by next-gen systems and thus less stock and general lower demand. But all systems have been on a downward trend in YoY sales since May. That to me seems to be indicative of overall decreased spending on big-ticket items as the population burns through their stimulus checks, not merely a stock issue.

The YoY gains seen in April were not sustainable over a multi-month period. Animal Crossing was the only other stimulative factor for the Switch, but no game has ever produced significant multi-month increases in hardware sales in the U.S. aside from Final Fantasy VII on the PS1, and that was an unusual circumstance. The only other stimulative factor in play was the stimulus checks. The realities of the impact of software on hardware sales in the U.S. (always very short-term except for one historical anomaly) combined with the undeniable effects of the stimulus checks indicates that the latter is the primary cause of the YoY gains seen since April (and almost certainly sole cause since May).

Moving on to 2020 sales as a whole for the Switch, upon further evaluation, you're right that 7.5M should be the floor. 6.5M is indeed too pessimistic, and an error on my part (I looked at the wrong data point when punching numbers into my calculator). 6.5M would be flat from 2019. I had intended to add the YoY surplus of the March-July period with last year's sales as an upper limit. 6.5M would require significant YoY drops (nearly 40%) for the Aug.-Dec. period, and even 7M would be improbable. Assuming the Switch is flat YoY for the Aug.-Dec. period, that would yield approximately 8.25M. So, we should actually see something more like somewhere in the 7.5-8.5M range.

But I think 8.5M is an absolute upper limit, and 7.5-8M is more probable, because I doubt we'll see overall growth for the Aug.-Dec. period. The reason why I think that is because of what the Switch is facing later this year. The Switch experienced some YoY growth last year from the Lite. It produced, perhaps also in conjunction with Pokemon S&S over the holidays, a 15.5% increase over the same 4-month period in 2018. With the way the Switch is declining, it most certainly could experience the necessary 16.78% drop in the last five months of the year needed to reach only 7.5M. Unless there's some major stimulative factor at play later in the year, I think 7.5-8M is the more probable end of the range. If the observed declines in YoY growth cease in the August NPD figures, I will be willing to reevaluate this assessment, but based on what we're currently observing, I think at minimum we'll see non-trivial YoY declines in the Sept.-Dec. period that will erode at least some of the YTD gains.

I think you're severely underestimating AC effect here. You seem to think it only pushed March sales while it has pushed up the baseline of the Switch and Nintendo is struggling to keep producing enough consoles, and that's simply not just due to Corona.



It's always so interesting that people expect a device that's selling above market value because of low stock to suddenly be down YoY. A major update for the holidays for the fastest-selling exclusive game of all time will probably move a decent amount of Switches this holiday. Don't even get me started on the fact that Nintendo hasn't really been pushing Ring Fit Adventure in terms of marketing since they can't produce enough peripherals. All this talk about Switch slowing down is the same thing we've been hearing about since the Switch launched. It's not happening.. get over it



Even without releasing a single major game for the holidays all Nintendo really needs to do is manufacture enough Switches & Ring Fit Adventure copies and couple that with major updates for both New Horizon and Ring Fit Adventure and I have a feeling that they will easily be up YoY during the holiday. Couple this with the release of Ring Fit in China and top it off with official support in Brazil, there is a lot of growth potential. We've seen how Switch has been dominating Asian Markets like Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. Developing markets will be a source of growth for them in the coming years as their competitors launch far more expensive consoles that simply won't be affordable in some places during the first few years on the market. 



Shadow1980 said:
curl-6 said:

No offense Shadow but you seem to have a consistent trend of underestimating the Switch.

Name specific examples that weren't a self-admitted error on my part. As for my earlier post, I honestly looked at the wrong data point when calculating. I thought the 2019 yearly figure was my initial projection for 2020 (I was dog tired at the time and wasn't focused). Had I noticed my error before I posted, I would have put in that 7.5+ figure.

Admittedly, I could be misremembering here, but I seem to remember you being insistent that Switch would decline this year simply based on the patterns of past Nintendo systems.



Shadow1980 said:
curl-6 said:

No offense Shadow but you seem to have a consistent trend of underestimating the Switch.

Name specific examples that weren't a self-admitted error on my part. As for my earlier post, I honestly looked at the wrong data point when calculating. I thought the 2019 yearly figure was my initial projection for 2020 (I was dog tired at the time and wasn't focused). Had I noticed my error before I posted, I would have put in that 7.5+ figure.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

I think you're severely underestimating AC effect here. You seem to think it only pushed March sales while it has pushed up the baseline of the Switch and Nintendo is struggling to keep producing enough consoles, and that's simply not just due to Corona.

I base my claims on two observable facts: 1) the observed YoY increase in April was not considerably higher than the observed increase with the PS4 & XBO, and 2) aside from the highly unusual circumstance of FF7 on the PS1, there has never been a single game to create detectable increases in sales for a period exceeding two months in the U.S.

The biggest system sellers have produced a significant bump in launch month, a much more reduced increase in the next month, and nothing after that. For all that we can tell from the entire history of the console market in the U.S., nearly everybody that buys a system for a particular game does so within a month or two of that game's release. No game has ever produced YoY gains like that for four or five consecutive months.

Given all of that, I believe the burden of proof is on those claiming that the primary driver of the YoY increases in Switch sales was Animal Crossing.

It's actually pretty easy to prove:

If people were buying a Switch for a different reason you'd probably see it higher than Animal Crossing. 

Also regarding your opinion on Switch demand slowing down.. you do realize the retail price is $299 and it's being resold from anywhere between $344.99 to $400... yeah that's demand not being met by Nintendo. 

Finally, Animal Crossing hasn't even had its first major holiday. Like I said all your doomsaying is just what we've been hearing from uninformed people about the Switch and it's demand since it launched.. overall it's just wishful thinking and I would recommend you start to use some critical thinking instead. 



if you say that im going with 2021 being the peak year



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