Forums - Sony Discussion - Some TLOU2 Haters Are Nut Jobs CONFIRMED!

padib said:
KratosLives said:

So why would he make a comment about me being ina cult with neil, when all I stated why neil said the game will be decisive? 

If people have different tastes, they shouldn't be playing certain games and judging if they're unaware of that the game is bound to be like.  And as for flaws, I didn't really see any. And flaws that have been picked out have been defended by others. So much effort and thought process went behind everything in this game. If someone didn't get it, or misunderstood something, or missed something along the way,  why should it be the that the game failed in an area. It's like movies and discussion talks, some things are explained, context discussed , and upon second or multiple viewings opinions or feelings change.  

He was kidding, really you need to lighten up! Sometimes humour is used to diffuse tension.

About tastes, it's okay to be a fan of a series but not of a specific entry. For example I am a Zelda fan, but I didn't really enjoy Twilight Princess as much as Ocarina of Time, or I didn't enjoy Sunshine as much as Mario Galaxy. I believe that some games in the series were better than others, it doesn't mean I shouldn't be playing those games.

About flaws, even if you don't see any, it doesn't mean others don't. It's like how my friend loves all the movies he watches, and doesn't see the flaws I see. For that reason, I don't really rely on him to know what movies to watch. On the other hand my other friend is very savvy in movies and I rely on him a lot to get an idea of good movies to look out for. I love both of them, but the ability to see quality is something that is important to a lot of people. I am not saying that TLOU2 is not a quality game, I see the quality. But the flaws are strong enough to show that some mistakes were made, and it's only a good thing for the team to take note so they can improve on the next one. Story was a big aspect of the first game, so in the context of a series if the story has issues it's only normal that fans talk about it and ask for better. It doesn't mean the person didn't get the game, they probably very much got it, and heard all the explanations. They just probably don't agree and would like the team to note and improve.

About second and multiple viewings, I fully agree with you. I personally loved the 2nd matrix movie upon subsequent viewings. It's probably true here too, but it may not fix issues that might be ultimately flawed for some people, and that's completely okay.

I get what you're saying. Could it be people are way overhyping expectations as well? Because I have been playing through the remaster and i'm not seeing anything done better. While we are talking, can you point out some flaws you cam across? 



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KratosLives said:

I get what you're saying. Could it be people are way overhyping expectations as well? Because I have been playing through the remaster and i'm not seeing anything done better. While we are talking, can you point out some flaws you cam across? 

Thanks for understanding. It's possible, given how well received the first game was, that people were expecting something as big or bigger. I think ND delivered on certain aspects like gameplay and graphics, but might have made some mistakes on story which was the strong suit of the first game. And when it comes to story, it is the most difficult to point out since immersion and believability will also depend from person to person. Hence why the game succeeded with certain buyers on some levels, and faltered on others or other gamers.

I personally was not able to purchase a console this gen due to limited funds and so was not able to enjoy the game and its incredible realism. Therefore, my understanding on the story's flaws are limited. I went through many online reviews (video and articles), and went through many segments of the game on youtube to form an idea. There are a few pointed out in this thread, and I could go and find those I read and watched, though it would take me a bit of time. If you would like that, I'll go find them all.

But the best way to understand what might be lacking in the story is to check out some reviews yourself, maybe it will help you understand some of the criticism, and if you care about the community and industry in general, and since you already beat the game, I think it will be worth your time. If you want to check them out and want me to suggest some, I'll be happy to post them for you. It's better that you go there because these professionals will explain the issues much better than I ever can, and it will be better to help you understand the other side (including your SO!). All are gamers who thoroughly played the game and gave their most honest take, it was clear in their analysis. I watched many reviews (some just about the story), some were positive about it, some were negative, so best to watch both takes.



padib said:
KratosLives said:

I get what you're saying. Could it be people are way overhyping expectations as well? Because I have been playing through the remaster and i'm not seeing anything done better. While we are talking, can you point out some flaws you cam across? 

Thanks for understanding. It's possible, given how well received the first game was, that people were expecting something as big or bigger. I think ND delivered on certain aspects like gameplay and graphics, but might have made some mistakes on story which was the strong suit of the first game. And when it comes to story, it is the most difficult to point out since immersion and believability will also depend from person to person. Hence why the game succeeded with certain buyers on some levels, and faltered on others or other gamers.

I personally was not able to purchase a console this gen due to limited funds and so was not able to enjoy the game and its incredible realism. Therefore, my understanding on the story's flaws are limited. I went through many online reviews (video and articles), and went through many segments of the game on youtube to form an idea. There are a few pointed out in this thread, and I could go and find those I read and watched, though it would take me a bit of time. If you would like that, I'll go find them all.

But the best way to understand what might be lacking in the story is to check out some reviews yourself, maybe it will help you understand some of the criticism, and if you care about the community and industry in general, and since you already beat the game, I think it will be worth your time. If you want to check them out and want me to suggest some, I'll be happy to post them for you. It's better that you go there because these professionals will explain the issues much better than I ever can, and it will be better to help you understand the other side (including your SO!). All are gamers who thoroughly played the game and gave their most honest take, it was clear in their analysis. I watched many reviews (some just about the story), some were positive about it, some were negative, so best to watch both takes.

Are reviews wrong if they don’t think the story is lacking, while those finding flaws in it are right?

Personally, I think a lot of people see something they don’t like, like the early game spoiler, and call it a flaw, because they didn’t want that to happen. There’s a difference between something you may not like and an inherent flaw.




Darc Requiem said:
EnricoPallazzo said:
Kind of related since he is a hater, angry joe has been banned from resetera since his review and his remarks about tlou2 were considered bigoted.

Then they didn't watch his review. I watched it. He literally broke down what liked, didn't like, and went into great detail. Resetera, like Twitter, hates anyone that doesn't religously adhere to their group think. That place is one of the most close minded places on the internet. Angry Joe is hit or miss with me but I'm 100% against the current societal need to label someone with a negative pejorative and deplatform them because they disagree with you. This counterproductive lynch mob mentality just creates echo chambers full of dishonest discussion. 

Agree. Maybe because I'm older but I prefer more "journalistic" style reviews like the one Skillup did. Angry Joe and Jimquisition is not exactly for my taste, but I agree with most of what he said in the reviews. Maybe they were pissed off due to all the jokes with Abby or his sketches dressed as a woman, maybe this is offensive somehow.

The problem with resetera is that since most of the journalists and developers follow the same line of politics opinion, at the end of the day it is a relevant place to discuss games and news. 



padib said:
Jaicee said:

The game's detractors certainly have managed to find a way of turning themselves into the real victims here.

They are. Between people being banned from forums for voicing a negative opinion about the game, to journalists like Jason Schreier being shamed on twitter, to users on vgchartz having to endure the typical witch hunt, the only conclusion is that people are not allowed to say things against the game.

It's high time people just stop all this on both sides. People should never make death threats to anyone, and others should let people express themselves and stop vilifying other users. It's very bad in general.

This is, quite honestly, the only game where I have seen people trying so hard to silence others for their opinion on the game. I personally just stopped posting about it even on vgchartz because it was becoming ugly.

As much as I and others want to admit that some haters are being completely out of line, you should be doing the same instead of continuing to pretend like everything is okay on the side of those who will just defend the game to no end and rebuke people who comment negatively about it or its creators who are behaving badly on social media.

Neil Drunkman in this issue is no angel, and he shouldn't be doing what he is doing, and users on the other end should not be behaving the way they are, sending personal attacks and being very personal about the game. Both sides are wrong and if you don't acknowledge it then why should the other side acknowledge the bad behaviours of certain haters?

Let's just stop all this and meet in the middle.

I have fucking threatened NO ONE's life and have nothing to apologize to you for in that regard! Why do you feel like I owe you a concession or something here? Because I appreciated the game? Seriously? Like I owe you an apology for liking The Last of Us Part II?

You're just blanketly associating me and everyone who says anything good about TLOU2 with the board policies of the ResetEra forums and every word that Neil Druckmann has ever uttered before and so on and so on. Has it ever occurred to you that there might be a difference? That I might be my own person? Can you not see that you're treating me the same way you CLAIM I'm treating you: in this cartoonish, pigeonholing way?

Yeah, maybe I get touchy about the way many detractors discuss the game because this one, for a great many personal reasons, means more to me than any other AAA release in like decades. Sorry if it feels like I'm going overboard hence, but I'm not trying to bar you from finding fault with it or whatever. I feel like not remarking further on this game myself would be best because clearly I'm not supposed to like this game.

If people here cannot condemn the threat of physical violence against this game's developers without qualification, without becoming defensive and demanding an apology from everyone who appreciates the game they have made, I don't know what there is left to talk about.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 09 July 2020

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Jaicee said:

I have fucking threatened NO ONE's life and have nothing to apologize to you for in that regard! Why do you feel like I owe you a concession or something here? Because I appreciated the game? Seriously? Like I owe you an apology for liking The Last of Us Part II?

You're just blanketly associating me and everyone who says anything good about TLOU2 with the board policies of the ResetEra forums and every word that Neil Druckmann has ever uttered before and so on and so on. Has it ever occurred to you that there might be a difference? That I might be my own person? Can you not see that you're treating me the same way you CLAIM I'm treating you: in this cartoonish, pigeonholing way?

Yeah, maybe I get touchy about the way many detractors discuss the game because this one, for a great many personal reasons, means more to me than any other AAA release in like decades. Sorry if it feels like I'm going overboard hence, but I'm not trying to bar you from finding fault with it or whatever. I feel like not remarking further on this game myself would be best because clearly I'm not supposed to like this game.

If people here cannot condemn the threat of physical violence against this game's developers without qualification, without becoming defensive and demanding an apology from everyone who appreciates the game they have made, I don't know what there is left to talk about.

@bold. I have really no clue what you're referring to. I would never infer that at all.

I think that you did however minimize the issue on the other side, though it's also nothing I'm jumping at your throat about, and if it sounded like that it wasn't my intention: "The game's detractors certainly have managed to find a way of turning themselves into the real victims here." It's a sentence I found issue with, and I just tried to show the two sides of the story, because I've seen users here and elsewhere being treated badly due to having a simple opinion on the game.

For the record, I didn't associate you to anyone, I think you misunderstood my post. I was just showing how the whole situation, when you put it all together, it does show that there are victims on all sides, to varying degrees of course. I was trying to explain why I disagreed with your statement, I was not trying to show why you in particular were making victims. On the contrary I think your attitude (other than maybe ignoring that some users are being bothered), was actually not a problem at all. My aim was to show that it's best to just look at it from both sides and meet in the middle. If you have the energy, read over my posts again to confirm that that's what I meant, because I never meant to say that you were a source of the bad energy, and I don't intend to point any fingers, I just want to explain why I disagreed with your statement, and tried to help people see both sides.

Just to set the record straight, I never pigeonholed you, since neither of the two accusations you thought I pointed at you were true. I pointed rather at the situation in general, not at you. I was trying to help you see the other side, and why there is an issue as to how people on the other side of the argument are, generally (not by you), being treated.

You should like the game if you like the game, by all means. My posts were not about that. My posts were there to ask that there is respect for those who had an issue with the game, and that the witch hunt (by other figures or users) would simply cease and that people would generally take the whole thing a little less seriously. It's important, I understand, but not to the point that we (in general) should hurt each other for it.



TLOU2 fans:

One of the few times the fans of something have actually contributed to me not liking something...



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

Hynad said:

Are reviews wrong if they don’t think the story is lacking, while those finding flaws in it are right?

Personally, I think a lot of people see something they don’t like, like the early game spoiler, and call it a flaw, because they didn’t want that to happen. There’s a difference between something you may not like and an inherent flaw.

A flaw is generally something people don't like too though. Naturally people don't want contrivances, inconsistencies, nonsensical logic, shallow characters n plots and just bad writing in general in a game series where the writing was the main selling point. No game is perfect so it shouldn't be too hard to believe that TLOU2 is no exception.



Ka-pi96 said:

TLOU2 fans:

One of the few times the fans of something have actually contributed to me not liking something...

Are you seriously saying that TLOU2 fans are bad because they all make broad generalizations about large groups of people?



OlfinBedwere said:
Ka-pi96 said:

TLOU2 fans:

One of the few times the fans of something have actually contributed to me not liking something...

Are you seriously saying that TLOU2 fans are bad because they all make broad generalizations about large groups of people?

I get the hypocrisy in that. There's another word I could think of that would be more accurate, but alas sometimes you can't call a spade a spade...



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702