Forums - Sports Discussion - Transgender and sports

But to be transgender you don't have to undergo the surgical procedure to change gender. A biological man can simply say he is female without any surgery and vice versa. How should those people participate in sports?



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TheLegendaryBigBoss said:

But to be transgender you don't have to undergo the surgical procedure to change gender. A biological man can simply say he is female without any surgery and vice versa. How should those people participate in sports?

Typically, athletic associations require some period of time of hormone therapy, and possibly surgery.  Many sports have some sort of limits on testosterone levels. Allowing people to compete simply based on identity is a pretty fringe view at the moment, at least when dealing with high level competition.



kirby007 said:
Zkuq said:

May I suggest this be moved to the sports section?

Anyway, fair competition regarding trans people in sports seems like a nightmarish topic to discuss to me, mainly because of the sensitivity of the issue and because of the differences between 'natural' sexes.

it is quite simple toss em in the same category
so we will have 4 options
M
F
M=>F
F=>M

Well, this certainly satisfies fairness of competition. However, this seems like in infeasible way to participate in sports for trans people, because I reckon there would not be enough participants for the trans groups in most sports anywhere but in the biggest cities... which is kind of a problem for equality because essentially it would mean trans people have less chance at being able to do sports. One problem solved, another one created with this solution, I suppose?



If the athletes are okay with it then sure. It sucks to exclude them but it's unfair for MTF athletes to compete with females but it's also unfair for them to compete with males due to testosterone suppression. Same how it's an unfair advantage for FTM athletes to compete with females whilst also being unfair for them to compete with males.

A seperate league would be cool but there aren't enough Trans athletes for that.



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Zkuq said:

May I suggest this be moved to the sports section?

Anyway, fair competition regarding trans people in sports seems like a nightmarish topic to discuss to me, mainly because of the sensitivity of the issue and because of the differences between 'natural' sexes.

For me sure it can go to sports section

@Hiku can you please move the thread?

I don't usually post in sport thread so I didn't remember there was a topic for it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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Zkuq said:
kirby007 said:

it is quite simple toss em in the same category
so we will have 4 options
M
F
M=>F
F=>M

Well, this certainly satisfies fairness of competition. However, this seems like in infeasible way to participate in sports for trans people, because I reckon there would not be enough participants for the trans groups in most sports anywhere but in the biggest cities... which is kind of a problem for equality because essentially it would mean trans people have less chance at being able to do sports. One problem solved, another one created with this solution, I suppose?

Well actually fair competition is something very hard to reach simply because some very few people are really genetically blessed while most aren't.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Thanks for the clarification!



There is no right answer to this issue. If people born as makes are allowed to compete as females, for any reason that I can think of, it will mean that essentially all high level athletes will have been born as males, with the possible exception of some sports that break down by weight class.

Thinking out loud now...maybe the key to the whole thing is to stop segregating by gender, and start segregating by size. Of course, the problem there is that few people will give a shit about any classes other than whatever weight class has the best overall performance. So, there won't be a professional league for 5'4" basketball players, which in turn means that people born female, who are smaller on average, will be left out. So, nevermind, still no solution.



VAMatt said:
There is no right answer to this issue. If people born as makes are allowed to compete as females, for any reason that I can think of, it will mean that essentially all high level athletes will have been born as males, with the possible exception of some sports that break down by weight class.

Thinking out loud now...maybe the key to the whole thing is to stop segregating by gender, and start segregating by size. Of course, the problem there is that few people will give a shit about any classes other than whatever weight class has the best overall performance. So, there won't be a professional league for 5'4" basketball players, which in turn means that people born female, who are smaller on average, will be left out. So, nevermind, still no solution.

Man even if you segregate by size it won't solve much.

Male have naturally lower body fat percentage, bigger transectional sessions and higher power per weight.

We may lack more data, but when I see that when they were male these athletes were below average but after transitioning and even when taking in count all the elements transexual advocates on sports mention (like hormone therapy, time in that therapy, etc), these athletes just suddenly become top in class. And what is often pointed is that even though that person have hormone level like a woman and have been transitioned for several years their infancy and formation of their body (bone density, muscle density, etc) was already benefitted a lot.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:

We may lack more data, but when I see that when they were male these athletes were below average but after transitioning and even when taking in count all the elements transexual advocates on sports mention (like hormone therapy, time in that therapy, etc), these athletes just suddenly become top in class. And what is often pointed is that even though that person have hormone level like a woman and have been transitioned for several years their infancy and formation of their body (bone density, muscle density, etc) was already benefitted a lot.

The data is scarce, but what data we do have available doesn't indicate that transgender individual have a significant advantage after transitioning.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/scientist-racing-discover-how-gender-transitions-alter-athletic-performance-including