Forums - Sports Discussion - Transgender and sports

Jaicee said:
DonFerrari said:

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But one thing that haven't saw a famous case yet is a former female athlete that have transitioned to be a trans male athlete and became a powerhouse at the sport. Do anyone heard a famous case?

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Well DUH!

You'll find that men tend to have lots of physical advantages over women, ranging from (a lot) more natural muscle tissue to just tending to be taller and lots of other obvious stuff we all know good and well just from living in the world. These characteristics provide men with, on average, real and meaningful advantages in both strength and speed. I mean yeah, there are some exceptions, some men who do nothing to develop and hone any of that, and some women who work their asses off to build themselves up, but this is the rule and it's clear enough for all of us to be able to readily observe it. There is no amount of gender identification or artificial testosterone reduction that's ever plausibly going to truly level nature's fundamentally unequal playing field. When men (by which here I mean biological males) participate in women's sport, they tend to have a natural and unfair advantage. That's just a fact. This becomes especially significant in contact sports like American football or rugby or mixed martial arts, for example, where the difference between single-sex and unisex competitions could be measured not just in trophy allocations, but in broken bones.

Conversely, when women participate in men's sports, they enjoy the physical disadvantages of being female. That is why you don't hear of transmen setting new records in men's sport. Gender identity ideology contains no advantages for women (biological females). It confers social benefits only to men (biological males).

Men who set records in women's sport, I think you'll find, tend to achieve times/weightlifting accomplishments/whatever applies that would only make them average athletes in the corresponding men's leagues. They don't tend to be objectively great athletes, in other words. They're just biologically male and have that natural advantage in women's athletics. The fact that they're rarely great athletes by the standards of their sex could be part of their motivation for choosing to compete in the women's league, in fact.

As far as I know, a man has never set a record in women's sports.  A trans woman who is competing in female sports is not going to be putting up the numbers of elite males because as far as I'm aware, any major sports league requires at least some period of hormone therapy before one is able to compete.  To the extent that they may retain an advantage, it would be incredibly unlikely for them to retain enough that they could still compete in the men's leagues. Judging a trans woman who has gone through HRT by comparing her to a man who has not undergone HRT is kind of ludicrous.



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JWeinCom said:

As far as I know, a man has never set a record in women's sports.  A trans woman who is competing in female sports is not going to be putting up the numbers of elite males because as far as I'm aware, any major sports league requires at least some period of hormone therapy before one is able to compete.  To the extent that they may retain an advantage, it would be incredibly unlikely for them to retain enough that they could still compete in the men's leagues. Judging a trans woman who has gone through HRT by comparing her to a man who has not undergone HRT is kind of ludicrous.

Try Googling "transwoman sets new record" for some examples.



Jaicee said:
JWeinCom said:

As far as I know, a man has never set a record in women's sports.  A trans woman who is competing in female sports is not going to be putting up the numbers of elite males because as far as I'm aware, any major sports league requires at least some period of hormone therapy before one is able to compete.  To the extent that they may retain an advantage, it would be incredibly unlikely for them to retain enough that they could still compete in the men's leagues. Judging a trans woman who has gone through HRT by comparing her to a man who has not undergone HRT is kind of ludicrous.

Try Googling "transwoman sets new record" for some examples.

That would give me examples of trans women setting records, not men.



JWeinCom said:
Jaicee said:

Try Googling "transwoman sets new record" for some examples.

That would give me examples of trans women setting records, not men.

Explain the difference to me.

(Spoiler: I never get a clear explanation. From anyone. Not even trans-identified people are able to explain it. Therefore, I don't actually expect one.)



Jaicee said:
JWeinCom said:

That would give me examples of trans women setting records, not men.

Explain the difference to me.

(Spoiler: I never get a clear explanation. From anyone. Not even trans-identified people are able to explain it. Therefore, I don't actually expect one.)

Man refers to someone whose assigned gender at birth was male, who identifies with that gender, and has not undertaken any efforts to change their physiology. (Cis-man) Or one whose assigned gender at birth was female, who identifies as a male, and, by most definitions, has undertaken efforts to change their body to match what they consider typical for male.(Trans-man)

Trans woman refers to someone whose assigned gender at birth was male, but identifies as female, and by most definitions has undergone some effort to change their physiology to match what they consider typical for another gender.

In this particular case, the people setting these records have undergone therapy that would make their physiology far different from a man. Whether their physiology is close enough to cis-gendered females to fairly compete, is another issue, but to judge them by men's standards would be clearly inappropriate. 

Edit: From a person more qualified to speak on the subject than me. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1207834357639139328.html

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 04 July 2020

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Peh said:
I would be surprised if a female athlete turned into male athlete would beat a male. Males have more muscle mass by default.

Suposedly theres minor skeletion differnces too, and muscle ones as well.
Plus things like hand and feet sizes. Testosteron is a big one too, makes it easiler to develope the body muscles.

If your born a man, build up muscles and transition to a trans-women, and compete you have a unfair advantage compaired to normal women.
Even if you use hormones to keep your levels around where a women does.

Joe Rogan said its like a woman growing up, and naturally haveing wide shoulders, and being on steoroids to build up muscles (her entire life).
Even after hormone levels are equalised, you still have all that progress you made pre that, ontop of theres still minor differnces between the two.

Basically you cant be a trans person and compete on a professional level (atleast not if you go male->female), it hardly seems fair to the women of the world, that do want to play sports. Otherwise if theres enough trans people, you would see womens sports dominated by trans-women.

Basically I dont think trans people ever truely become men or women.
They become as close as possible, and are then trans-man or trans-women, which theres nothing wrong with.
They just cant compete in professional sports, for the sake of women, who were born women.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 04 July 2020

Jaicee said:
JWeinCom said:

That would give me examples of trans women setting records, not men.

Explain the difference to me.

(Spoiler: I never get a clear explanation. From anyone. Not even trans-identified people are able to explain it. Therefore, I don't actually expect one.)

Trans-men (women who go to men) have all the dis-advantages of being born a woman, trying to compete against men, who didnt have these, and thus the chances of ever being able to compete on a fair playing feild are tiny. Thus they basically arnt something you can find.

Thats why trans-women are the ones setting records (men who go women).
They were born with the inherant advantages of being a man (size/height/skeleton/muscle/hormone/hand+feetsize) and only had to have a sex change and lower their hormones to womens levels afterwards.  However the equaliseing of the hormones isnt the entire story, they still have plenty of other advantages, or had them growing up, so after transitioning their still at a better starting place than women.

Thats why trans-women are setting records in women sports, and not the otherway around.
Basically if there was enough men who were trans-women playing sports, there would be no space for women in sports (who were born women).



sports must be locked to birth gender, otherwise women sports will eventually become pointless



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
sports must be locked to birth gender, otherwise women sports will eventually become pointless

Well considering the revenue generated by women sports compared to men unfortunatelly the women are very badly regarded. Don't know if it is because women expend less money on sports though.



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