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Forums - Sony Discussion - (SPOILER ALERT) Free discussion of TLOU2 with story included

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How do you rate TLOU2 story

1 8 14.55%
 
2 1 1.82%
 
3 5 9.09%
 
4 3 5.45%
 
5 5 9.09%
 
6 7 12.73%
 
7 4 7.27%
 
8 4 7.27%
 
9 7 12.73%
 
10 11 20.00%
 
Total:55
KLXVER said:
DonFerrari said:

After playing TLOU2 we can conclude Joel is our most humane and greater person in that world.

Well he made sure he wouldnt have much competition...

That is a way of looking at it kkkkk



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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method114 said:
Trunkin said:


As it is, I appreciate what the game did for Ellie's character, but I don't really get how Abby's entire 10hr storyline fits in as a sort of "other side of the coin" to Ellie's. I mean, I don't feel like the game really delved into how killing Joel impacted Abby. Was she relieved? Empty inside? Disgusted? The game doesn't dwell on it. She just kind of...moves on to the next thing. I think they wasted the chance to really explore that whole issue from Abby's perspective, as a person who's sort of on the other side of the revenge plot that's driving Ellie so powerfully. Instead they spend too much time dwelling on her relationship with Owen, which feels totally tangential to what I thought was the main point of the game.

I would've written her entire story differently, but,with things exactly as they were, had she died at the end, bringing all her noble actions up to this point to waste, all as a result of her revenge... I wouldn't have liked it, but I think it would've fit a little better.

 I don't think Abby was supposed to be "the other side of the coin" IMO. She was supposed to be exactly like Ellie. Someone willing to sacrifice everything to get revenge. At the end I think if you asked them both they would say they sacrificed to much. Abby lost everyone just to get revenge for her dad's death and I'm pretty sure she was raped before she was thrown on that pole if were being honest.

Ellie got off easier here IMO but Joel was tortured in front of her eyes while Abby's father died quickly and without her having to witness it.

I dunno. The worst thing that happens to Abby is being captured by those bastards at the end(can't remember the name of their group). But that didn't really fee like it had anything to do with her revenge. I think, even if Ellie were totally out of the picture, Abby still would've ended up helping Lev. With the all out war going on, she still would've en ostracized and had no choice but to go looking for the fireflies anyway. Really, if anything, killing Joel saved her life in the end. If she hadn't taken her vengeance, Ellie never would have been there to cut her down from that poll. It just feels like everything that happened to her was just a result of the messed up world they live in. Revenge didn't require much sacrifice on her part outside of maybe damaging her relationship with Owen and his girl.

ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Trunkin said:
Full spoilers ahead, so be warned. I think anyone in this thread probably doesn't care, but a warning never hurt anyone!

Finally finished the game. I definitely did like it, but I'm torn on the ending. While I think Ellie did the right thing in letting Abby live (as I was desperately hoping that she would to the point that I failled the QTE the first time), I can't help feeling that the ending would have been more poignant had she gone through with it. By the end of the game she's lost everything, even her abilty to play the guitaur, which was her sole remaining connection to Joel, has been severed. It seems unbelievably grim, considering that she did ultimately "end the circle of violence."

I guess the idea is that Ellie has finally let go of her feelings of remorse/rage both at Abby and, to an extent, at Joel for his lie. She can finally move on and find some kind of meaning to her life. It's a nice ending when I think of it that way, but the game was just such a...slog through the absolute worst of humanity that I almost feel like I would have appreciated it more had she actually murdered Abby, and the ending had been identical beyond that. Ellie loses everything. Killing Abby brings her no peace. Abby loses everything, dying helpless and alone, with full knowledge that Lev is doomed. Lev, this poor kid who just wanted to live his life, would doubtlessly have died there (or magically survived and then himself pursued vengeance on Ellie, works either way.) All this as a direct result of Abby and Ellie's relentless pursuits of vengeance. I think, while bleak as all hell, that might've worked better and brought all the themes of the game together around the basic "revenge bad" premise.

As it is, I appreciate what the game did for Ellie's character, but I don't really get how Abby's entire 10hr storyline fits in as a sort of "other side of the coin" to Ellie's. I mean, I don't feel like the game really delved into how killing Joel impacted Abby. Was she relieved? Empty inside? Disgusted? The game doesn't dwell on it. She just kind of...moves on to the next thing. I think they wasted the chance to really explore that whole issue from Abby's perspective, as a person who's sort of on the other side of the revenge plot that's driving Ellie so powerfully. Instead they spend too much time dwelling on her relationship with Owen, which feels totally tangential to what I thought was the main point of the game.

I would've written her entire story differently, but,with things exactly as they were, had she died at the end, bringing all her noble actions up to this point to waste, all as a result of her revenge... I wouldn't have liked it, but I think it would've fit a little better.

There is a lot of parallels in this, at the start of the last of US Joel is like Abby at the begining of her playable part, Abby at the end is Joel at the end of the first, Ellie after Joel is killed is Abby at the end of the last of US, lev is similar to Ellie in the last of US 1.

Ellie not killing Abby to me means She is the better One of them all , She didnt Lost everything , She saved herself, we dont even know If She GOES back to Jackson , the last scene of the game, She is willing to forgive Joel, maibe Dina can forgive her who knows.

Druckman left ending ambiguous , that is why i love the ending. I hope There is a third game, She finds redemption  and a purporse in life , just like abby.

I can see the parallels between Abby and Joel, but I guess my question is....why? We were dragged away from our queest as Ellie to go on this 10 hour journey with Abby, retreading some of the story beats that were handled in the first game, but what was the point of it in the grand scheme of things? Neil Druckmann and co. obviously thought it was necessary to get their point across, but so much of how it was handled makes me wonder what that point was at all.

And yes, I think that Ellie would have been truly lost if she'd gone through with killing Abby. I agree with you on the ambiguity of the ending. It leaves us with some hope for Ellie. That said, I really don't want there to be a sequel. I felt the same way about the first game. The end was sort of ambiguous, but i was happy with it. I wanted Ellie and Joel's futures to be left to our imaginations. As it is, Naughty Dog managed to make a quality sequel that builds on the events of the first game, but, in the context of the first game, I still don't feel like this sequel had to be made, and i really don't think there needs to be a third one -- especially if another sequel means that they'll have to find a way to throw Ellie back into the violence that we saw in this game.

Maybe a short DLC epilogue would be okay.



Feels like the writers for this game started backwards when writing a story: a bloated cast dictated the story rather than the story dictate the cast.

Joel and Ellie, the heart and soul of the first game, should have been the focus but they weren't: says a lot when for many, the best parts were the Joel and Ellie portions.

Instead Abby has to be half of this game and all these other cast members have to be stuffed into the game in some way making the game feel overly long for some.



John2290 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
Spoiler!
I finished the game, and liked the story. They were doing to Abby what Game of Thrones did to Jamie Lannister through seasons 1-5. She started out as a villain, and slowly, but surely you were made to like her. The two highpoints of the game were when Abby discovered her dead friends in the aquarium, and the theater fight. We as the players already knew that Ellie had killed everyone in the aquarium. We already knew that Abby was coming back to find all her friends dead. That made the suspense and anticipation all that greater. I loved the theater fight! Both these characters had good reasons at this point to kill the other. Playing as Abby I didn't know what to do, because I was like, "I can't kill Ellie! She's the main character!". I wasn't sure whether the game would have Abby kill Ellie and end there or not. Then there was the fact that Ellie was such a badass in this fight. You try  throwing bottles or bricks at her, and she just dodges them, and blasts you in the gut. You try listening for her and she's deadly quiet.

Ellie sparing Abby at the end made sense, because Lev was there, and because Abby had already spared Ellie twice. Not to mention that Abby didn't even want to fight in the first place. Abby knew full well that what she did to Ellie (by killing Joel in front of her) was a horrible thing to do. Abby is the sort of character that makes stupid decisions and then later comes to regret them or even hate herself for those choices. Just look at how she got together with her ex, despite knowing full well that her friend and her ex were having a kid together.

Abby couldn't kill Ellie, because she knew full well that she was Ellie's Joel (Abby was Ellie's villain, just like how Joel was Abby's villian). Abby was the person that killed Ellie's adoptive father one, just like how Joel killed Abby's father.

I can't believe the number of people that want to rate this game a 1/10 based solely on them not liking the story. Gameplay, Graphics, Sound, Controls, and Length all play a part in how good a game is. I mean, I could see reasonable people rating this a 7/10 or 6/10 because they really hated the story. But even then that's stretching it.

I don't think it's stretching it, everyone is different, I'd rate the story a 6, the game an 8 and overall I'd say a solid 7 but with asterisk stating that it ruins established characters. 5 is mediocre on my scale, 6 is decent, 7 is solid/good, 8 is great, 9 is stellar & addictive, 10 is when the stars align and make a game that is all a 9 is but also has very little problems and is finely crafted. This is not a 10, it's not a 9 either and at times I want to drop the story to less than a 5, a 4 maybe (poor) but somehow it manages to stil rise above it despite all the problems and writibg issues, somehow ot manages to be decent enough with the shear magnitude of production, VA and the brutality of it among other things. There are times I wanted to drip the gamepkay to a 5 like this... 

... yeah, it gets even worse than that at times like whole monster boxes just desending on you and you can run left and right or in a circle and regain stealth to takr them out or just pop them if you feel like wasting ammo or even worse, have them all come at you and beat them with a melee weapon, they drop a melee weapon and you pick it up to kill the next guy who drops a melee weapon and so on. I was playing on hard with companions on survivor and materials on moderate and the majority of my deaths were one hit kills, a boss, a stupid just scare where enemies are attached to walls and grab you or taking an arrow in the open. Still, the game despite all it's issues manages to push past all that and rise to being great, I can't explain how so besides it being so well crafted, the level design being great at times and the core gameplay and feel being, well, great

Idk, a 7 for me and I wouldn't even question someone with a 5 or a 4 because I can see why. I don't question peoples 8s or 9s either but 10's, nah, there are glaring issues you can't ignore and I can't believe anyone would rate this a 10, as long as they aren't a kid, a teen or a massive casual who cosumes very little media. You'd have to ignore so many problems, your rating of 10 becomes a joke like the 1s, 2s and 3's. 

I've seen people put up videos on Sekiro showing similar stuff where enemies just don't react. It happens in all stealth games every once in a while. Also, I'm not sure what difficulty level Jim was playing on. Could have been easy mode for all I know.

Your weird choice of difficulty settings probably isn't the best way to play the game. Putting materials on moderate for example is going to cause stuff to rain down on you so much that it ruins the survival horror aspect of the game. I don't see how you died to jump scares, unless you never topped off your HP bar.

My scale goes from a 6 to a 10, for the most part. If I ever actually rated a game a 5/10, it would have to be one of the worst games I ever played. I'm about a quarter of the way through my second playthrough. Overall I think I'd give it an 8.5 now. The Jackson parts are way too slow the second time around. I don't like the scavenger hunt collectibles aspect of the Trophies. I don't like how the game has sections where you are locked in, and can't go back. Like when you cross a certain section with your horse, and a cutscene initiates, and there's no going back to the area you were exploring. You're now locked into going forward. I hate that, because it's do disruptive to gameplay. Opening cuboards and drawers takes too long too.

Since you rate on a 1-10 scale, and I rate on a 6-10 scale, I think we are more in agreement, than disagreement. Since a 5/10 is average/mediocre for you, converted to my scale average/mediocre would be a 7/10. Likewise, your 7/10 score would translate a little higher on my scoring scale.



Ok so I've been playing as abby for a couple hours, and you know I gotta agree.
The story would have worked better if right after Nora, you switched to abby. Would have been much more powerful to know that the next time you kill someone as Ellie, you're inevitably going to see how they were as a person.
Other than that, is Abby the reason people are talking about trans characters?



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theprof00 said:
Ok so I've been playing as abby for a couple hours, and you know I gotta agree.
The story would have worked better if right after Nora, you switched to abby. Would have been much more powerful to know that the next time you kill someone as Ellie, you're inevitably going to see how they were as a person.
Other than that, is Abby the reason people are talking about trans characters?

Abby is a woman. She's just built like a someone on roids :P



theprof00 said:
Ok so I've been playing as abby for a couple hours, and you know I gotta agree.
The story would have worked better if right after Nora, you switched to abby. Would have been much more powerful to know that the next time you kill someone as Ellie, you're inevitably going to see how they were as a person.
Other than that, is Abby the reason people are talking about trans characters?

It was initially before the game came out I think, but its mostly about Lev I believe. I didnt even know. I was unsure at times what he was while playing it, but I never thought of trans.



Trunkin said:

I dunno. The worst thing that happens to Abby is being captured by those bastards at the end(can't remember the name of their group). But that didn't really fee like it had anything to do with her revenge. I think, even if Ellie were totally out of the picture, Abby still would've ended up helping Lev. With the all out war going on, she still would've en ostracized and had no choice but to go looking for the fireflies anyway. Really, if anything, killing Joel saved her life in the end. If she hadn't taken her vengeance, Ellie never would have been there to cut her down from that poll. It just feels like everything that happened to her was just a result of the messed up world they live in. Revenge didn't require much sacrifice on her part outside of maybe damaging her relationship with Owen and his girl.

Err... Abby lost her father when she was a teenager, and then lost all of her friends by Ellie's hand (after she made the mistake of sparing Ellie's life).
Ellie lost only two friends in this process (Yes, I know Joel was like a father to her and all that, but he was not her actual father).



theprof00 said:
Ok so I've been playing as abby for a couple hours, and you know I gotta agree.
The story would have worked better if right after Nora, you switched to abby. Would have been much more powerful to know that the next time you kill someone as Ellie, you're inevitably going to see how they were as a person.
Other than that, is Abby the reason people are talking about trans characters?

Nope, there is a trans char but won't spoil it for you.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

up to chapter 28 according to the collectible guide just after the aquarium date with owen didnt think id like abbys part as much as i did after reading many hated playing as her ND did a good job making you care for her even after what she did should be done with the game in 4-5 days i know im slow but im on survivor and getting all the collectables



                                                             

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