Forums - Sony Discussion - Is Sony trying to shed it's "Sad Dad Games" image on PS5?

Nate4Drake said:
""The PlayStation 4 was home to some of Sony Interactive Entertainment's finest output yet. Sony is only second to Nintendo in crafting some of the most iconic worlds, characters, stories and gameplay moments in the industry""

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Sony is not second to Nintendo; actually, I believe Sony have surpassed Nintendo with new IPs and advancement in gameplay mechanics, iconic unique big and interactive worlds, art design, story telling, more credible and advanced AI, etc. Just my point of view.

I don't think you can start out with "I'm sorry to disappoint you" and then end with "just my point of view". The first sentence says that you are right and the other person is wrong while the ending says that it's only an opinion. So which is it?

Also name one recent Sony game with gameplay as unique and original as splatoon. Or with a world as diverse and interactive as hyrule in BOTW. Name a Sony character as iconic as Mario, pikachu, link or even Isabelle. I'll give you storytelling to an extent, personally I don't think Sony use the medium to tell stories that could only be told in gaming. AI I don't think either Nintendo or Sony pushes AI to new levels. Art design is very debatable either way. 

Last edited by pikashoe - on 17 June 2020

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Pyro as Bill said:

Sony always has variety but if you mean games like TLoU, Uncharted and GoW then it's true that most of their biggest/most popular games are 'sad dad' games.

Sony's other games either aren't as good/appealing or Playstation doesn't attract a big enough audience for those types of games.

TLOU would be the only game to even be about a dad. Uncharted had the protagonist being a dad just at the epilogue and GoW on the last game. And to tell the truth they aren't even sad.

Almost all the IPs on PS4 sold great so you are really wrong on their games not atracting a big audience.

Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

Are we really inventing genres to fit?

Everybody Golf is a sport game with RPG elements if you want to go like that. The SIMS is a life simulation. fitness adventure?

For me it just seems like you are pretending there is a whole genre to cover a single game Nintendo created to pad the numbers.

Everyone does actually. As you look at it, you actually could put TLOU in the same genre as Zelda: action adventure. With that Sony has nothing special. But as I see it, there are differences. But that is exactly what I said: everyone defines genres differently. You argued that position only to circle back and deliver an expample yourself. And I said before: as people define their genres some can come to the conclusion PS4 has the most diverse library ever, while others think that Switch has that price. It is all a question of your viewpoint.

No, there isn't something as defyning genres differently, genres are classifications so they aren't to be individualized. If you want to put TLOU as action adventure instead of surviving horror that is on you or when you don't consider Zelda a RPG. You are torturing definitions to try and make a point to give Nintendo a win.

hinch said:
Mnementh said:

I would argue Rayman and Lara Croft are quite iconic. But true, Nintendo has a great talent to develop lasting characters. Maybe because they don't give up on them and jump to a different series. Sony abandoned Spyro and Crash, maybe if they had stick with them they would be as iconic today as Mario.

I'm pretty sure Sony has never owned those IP's. As far as I'm aware Spyro was owned by Universal Studios, then acquired by Activison. Crash Bandicoot was also owned by Activision and currently still is. Sony just published their games.

Yep they never owned but the IPs were created by the studios they bought.

pikashoe said:
KLXVER said:

The only thing I would like Sony to focus more on is replayability. I love several of their games, but I feel like story is too much of a focus in many of them. I just never seem to go back to their games once Ive finished them.(A few exceptions of course) Thats just a bit of a selfish wish I know, since I know many people play their games over and over. I just feel the gameplay could be a bit more fun and random I guess.

That's a good point. With a few exceptions there games have very little replay value. I found this very noticeable when I tried to replay a chapter in uncharted 4 and just finding it so tedious and dull on a second play through. Although I find bloodborne very replayable. 

Considering I have platined Uncharted 1 to 3 twice and once for 4 and Lost Legacy (having to play 3 times per plat) I would say I found a lot of replayability.



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pikashoe said:
Nate4Drake said:
""The PlayStation 4 was home to some of Sony Interactive Entertainment's finest output yet. Sony is only second to Nintendo in crafting some of the most iconic worlds, characters, stories and gameplay moments in the industry""

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Sony is not second to Nintendo; actually, I believe Sony have surpassed Nintendo with new IPs and advancement in gameplay mechanics, iconic unique big and interactive worlds, art design, story telling, more credible and advanced AI, etc. Just my point of view.

I don't think you can start out with "I'm sorry to disappoint you" and then end with "just my point of view". The first sentence says that you are right and the other person is wrong while the ending says that it's only an opinion. So which is it?

Also name one recent Sony game with gameplay as unique and original as splatoon. Or with a world as diverse and interactive as hyrule in BOTW. Name a Sony character as iconic as Mario, pikachu, link or even Isabelle. I'll give you storytelling to an extent, personally I don't think Sony use the medium to tell stories that could only be told in gaming. AI I don't think either Nintendo or Sony pushes AI to new levels. Art design is very debatable either way. 

He didn't simply refer to Iconic Characters, but also iconic Worlds, and I don't think Mario or Pikachu are more Iconic than Kratos, or Drake, and the same can be said about the Worlds.  Original as Splatoon ? And why ? Because you shoot with paint ? I finished Splatoon 2, it was a funny game, but far from being more original than games like The Journey, or The Last Guardian, Shadow of the Colossus, Horizon, Death Stranding or Dreams, just to name very few original Playstation Games.

You want a world as diverse and interactive as hyrule in BOTW ? What about a living world like the one in Horizon Zero Dawn, the art design, graphics, etc. or the one in The Last of Us Part II or Ghost of Tsushima ?

 My opinion is, Sony has surpassed Nintendo in terms of originality, new IPs, more big AAA games and have Iconic Characters too. At least I have the decency not to start a Thread claiming that what I say is an absolute truth.  Ghost of Tsushima and The Last of Us Part II are just the culmination of an extraordinary generation where Sony has never stopped thinking about moving forward.    

 

Last edited by Nate4Drake - on 17 June 2020

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DonFerrari said:

pikashoe said:

That's a good point. With a few exceptions there games have very little replay value. I found this very noticeable when I tried to replay a chapter in uncharted 4 and just finding it so tedious and dull on a second play through. Although I find bloodborne very replayable. 

Considering I have platined Uncharted 1 to 3 twice and once for 4 and Lost Legacy (having to play 3 times per plat) I would say I found a lot of replayability.

Emm ok. I still don't think they have much replay value. There are no differences or changes with repeat play throughs so the games are lacking in replay value for me. A lot of Sony's games are slow paced which doesn't help replayabilty either. The older uncharted games are a bit more replayable because they are action packed from beginning to end. Uncharted 4 has a lot of downtime that just isn't interesting on repeat viewing.



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DonFerrari said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Sony always has variety but if you mean games like TLoU, Uncharted and GoW then it's true that most of their biggest/most popular games are 'sad dad' games.

Sony's other games either aren't as good/appealing or Playstation doesn't attract a big enough audience for those types of games.

TLOU would be the only game to even be about a dad. Uncharted had the protagonist being a dad just at the epilogue and GoW on the last game. And to tell the truth they aren't even sad.

Almost all the IPs on PS4 sold great so you are really wrong on their games not atracting a big audience.

I don't think the games have to have a father in them just as 'happy, kiddy' games don't need to have children in them.

The types of games that do massive numbers on Nintendo consoles don't do massive numbers on Sony's and vice versa.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

TheMisterManGuy said:

It does feel like Sony, Specifically newly appointed Worldwide Studios President, Herman Hulst, does want to try and shed that image it built up in the PS4, and show that PlayStation is more than capable of offering a large and varied lineup of games.

Hermen Hulst was promoted to head of Sony Worldwide Studios in November 2019.
Any games shown off at the PS5 presentation began development long before he was able to make any decisions that influenced their development, outside of Horizon 2.

Though on the subject of what games they decided to show, when it came to first party titles the lineup felt like a pretty typical PlayStation lineup to me.
There was a Ratchet & Clank game for PS4 in 2016, so I don't feel like it had been missing for an unreasonable amount of time or anything.
They showcased Bloodborne six months after the PS4 launched, so Demon's Souls also doesn't feel like a course correction here for me.

Yeah. All in all I feel like the PS5 lineup shown so far is mainly 'more of the same', which as long as people keep enjoying them, there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm sure we'll see some new IP's later on as per usual though.



Nate4Drake said:
pikashoe said:

I don't think you can start out with "I'm sorry to disappoint you" and then end with "just my point of view". The first sentence says that you are right and the other person is wrong while the ending says that it's only an opinion. So which is it?

Also name one recent Sony game with gameplay as unique and original as splatoon. Or with a world as diverse and interactive as hyrule in BOTW. Name a Sony character as iconic as Mario, pikachu, link or even Isabelle. I'll give you storytelling to an extent, personally I don't think Sony use the medium to tell stories that could only be told in gaming. AI I don't think either Nintendo or Sony pushes AI to new levels. Art design is very debatable either way. 

He didn't simply refer to Iconic Characters, but also iconic Worlds, and I don't think Mario or Pikachu are more Iconic than Kratos, or Drake, and the same can be said about the Worlds.  Original as Splatoon ? And why ? Because you shoot with paint ? I finished Splatoon 2, it was a funny game, but far from being more original than games like The Journey, or The Last Guardian, Shadow of the Colossus, Horizon, Death Stranding or Dreams, just to name very few original Playstation Games.

You want a world as diverse and interactive as hyrule in BOTW ? What about a living world like the one in Horizon Zero Dawn, the art design, graphics, etc. or the one in The Last of Us Part II or Ghost of Tsushima ?

 My opinion is, Sony has surpassed Nintendo in terms of originality, new Ips, more big AAA games and have Iconic Characters too. At leas I have the decency not to start a Thread claiming that what I say is an absolute truth.  Ghost of Tsushima and The Last of Us Part II are just the culmination of an extraordinary generation where Sony has never stopped thinking about moving forward.    

 

If you show the average person a picture of Mario or pikachu they will very likely know who they are, the same cannot be said for kratos or Nathan drake. In terms of iconic worlds, like what hyrule or the mushroom kingdom are as iconic as a world can be.

Splatoons gameplay is original because it's a shooter where the primary focus is not killing but covering as much area as possible. Where covering are is also gives you cover and helps movement speed. There are so many unique ideas in that game beyond just shooting paint, if you can't see that then I don't know what to say. Journey is just running it's a great game but in terms of gameplay nothing new. Last guardian is a good example, I don't think it works very well but it's definitely original. Shadow of the collosus is a few generations old so doesn't really apply to what I asked. Horizon cool concept, nothing original in terms of gameplay. Death stranding, again cool concept not much in terms of original gameplay. Dreams, is a tool for creating games so not much to do with gameplay. Sony make great games but they rarely have particularly unique or original gameplay. That's not necessarily a bad thing they have great gameplay in there games it's just not original. I feel like you are mixing up original gameplay and good gameplay.

Horizon zero dawn has a pretty but very shallow world. It's very much a look don't touch kind of world. The only thing you really interact with is enemies. BOTW you can cut down trees, climb everything, set grass on fire and use the updraft to fly through the air, use wind to spread fire, use metal to attract lightning, snowboard down mountains. Use flame weapons to stay warm in the cold, I could honestly go on and on there are hundreds of big and little ways to interact with world in that game. This is like the main reason BOTW was so acclaimed when it was released. Last of us 2 and ghosts aren't even out yet. We dont know how interactive those worlds will be.

I agree that Sony makes more new ips, the others are debatable. Except for more iconic characters, that's just wrong. You could say better written characters and I'd not only understand but actually agree with you.

You literally started your initial comment with "Sorry to disappoint you" and then said the other person was wrong, you cant just put "just my opinion" at the end and make it seem like you aren't trying to say that person is wrong. I dont know why I'm even bothering trying I doubt you'll give anything I say a chance.



Nate4Drake said:
""The PlayStation 4 was home to some of Sony Interactive Entertainment's finest output yet. Sony is only second to Nintendo in crafting some of the most iconic worlds, characters, stories and gameplay moments in the industry""

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Sony is not second to Nintendo; actually, I believe Sony have surpassed Nintendo with new IPs and advancement in gameplay mechanics, iconic unique big and interactive worlds, art design, story telling, more credible and advanced AI, etc. Just my point of view.

I couldn't agree more.

There are exceptions though. Splatoon is truly incredible, really and Xenoblade (the first one) is also marvellous, but it wasn't really something created inside nintendo quarters originally. Aside from that, Sony just wins in my opinion.

Nintendo blockbusters like Pokemon, Kart and Smash are old news for about 15 years or so, while Sony have evolved a lot with exclusives like GT, Horizon, TLOU, Demon's Souls, Bloodborn, Death Stranding, Uncharted, and many others. Of course we can't just say that those titles are 100% original, but they're still incredibly fresh. TLOU isn't 100% original, but it's truly fresh and it plays like no other game in the world, it's an experience like no other in terms of gaming. Totally raised the bar. GT has become one of the most acclaimed racers. Horizon battle system is absolutely incredible and quite unique. Demon's Souls created a new genre (ok, it's not a Sony in house title, but published by Sony). Uncharted can be called just a third party shooter, but still, is there any other story driven cinematic third party shooter as good as Uncharted? I'm not going to mention God of War. Ok, I'll: battling with axes isn't 100% original, but the game is absolutely brilliant, it's so smooth, so fresh, feels great to play and there's no other action game like that round, let alone on Nintendo. Death Stranding was done with Sony help and it's very original. Never seen gameplay like that.



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pikashoe said:
DonFerrari said:

Considering I have platined Uncharted 1 to 3 twice and once for 4 and Lost Legacy (having to play 3 times per plat) I would say I found a lot of replayability.

Emm ok. I still don't think they have much replay value. There are no differences or changes with repeat play throughs so the games are lacking in replay value for me. A lot of Sony's games are slow paced which doesn't help replayabilty either. The older uncharted games are a bit more replayable because they are action packed from beginning to end. Uncharted 4 has a lot of downtime that just isn't interesting on repeat viewing.

So how does Zelda or Mario change on each playthrough? Or bloodborne?

On the changing at everyplay only sports games and the kind truly does it.

Pyro as Bill said:
DonFerrari said:

TLOU would be the only game to even be about a dad. Uncharted had the protagonist being a dad just at the epilogue and GoW on the last game. And to tell the truth they aren't even sad.

Almost all the IPs on PS4 sold great so you are really wrong on their games not atracting a big audience.

I don't think the games have to have a father in them just as 'happy, kiddy' games don't need to have children in them.

The types of games that do massive numbers on Nintendo consoles don't do massive numbers on Sony's and vice versa.

So what a game needs to have to be a sad father game? And what is a happy kid game?



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