I hater the 12 when I first played but gave a second chance on the remaster and man it was good, a lot better than X.

At first I hated XII, I just liked the idea of no random encounter (makes a lot more sense since monster don't just appear out of nothing) but the gameplay and confusing upgrade system lost me. But I gave a shot on the remaster after seeing some praises for XII and loved it, perhaps because of internet I understood the game better and was able to like it.

"Garbage" seems a bit harsh and could be construed as a bit inflammatory. I understand not liking a game, but, y'know... phrasing (that goes for others making "garbage" comments). If I may ask, what specifically do you not like?

Personally, I haven't much cared for a mainline FF game after FFX. I've never understood the industry aversion to turn-based combat over the past 15 years. FFXIII moved away from it with the paradigm system while not quite moving to action-based. Once you got the hang of it there was a certain groove to it, but I preferred the old ATB system. But FFXV failed to hold my interest. The fully action-based combat just felt like a bunch of haphazard thrashing around, and I didn't like that you couldn't control the other party members (I understand they changed the latter a bit in a later update, but I still haven't finished the game and haven't touched in something like a year and a half).

But I thought FFVIIR's hybrid action/ATB system that allowed you to quickly toggle between party members was a good compromise, and I've been enjoying that game so far. I will always prefer the slower, more methodical menu-based combat of old-school FF, but if Final Fantasy is going to remain action-oriented, I'd prefer they stick with the FFVIIR system. But Square-Enix does always feel a need to reinvent the wheel with every game, so I doubt it. Hopefully the combat in FFXVI is better than in XV, but I'll try the demo first (if there is one) before I actually decide whether to buy it.

Based on the thread title. If the next game actually goes for full action combat it has a very good chance to be worse than the second worst FF game ever made.

Just saying, I already predicted that FFXV is gonna be garbage over a year before its release and I was right.

The main reason I didn't like XII from the start was the battle system, as when you just start the game the gambits are quite confusing and limited in usage.

But after you understand it, it's amazing. It's brilliant, actually.

They give you full control of a party in real time, with the ability to manually intervene on anything at any point, and mix action, strategy and control the changes of pacing in combat at any time.

I also can't stress enough how much I like those guild hunts, the idea of going out to hunt menacing monsters that will only appear when you have the right info was so good. The towns in XII are also so cool.

FF12 is a mix of action, turn based, strategy, and MMO rpgs all into a single game.

Everything about XII is asthetically charming too, from the characters voices to the story itself.

I can't understand why it's not one of the most well regarded games (not only FF) out there, it's magic.

And even as yeah, Vaan is pretty forgetable, he also doesn't make the game any harm either.

I honestly don't see FF ever going back to turn based. Turn based RPG popularity just isn't what it used to be, most people seem to prefer action RPG's. I hope this guy is doing FF16, I'd much rather have DMC or Dragon's Dogma like combat than Souls-like combat like that one FF16 rumor.

Yeah, i have the same experience with 12, i look down and even  despise when it first came out. It has different vibe compared to the previous FF games where it has Yoshitaka Amano and Hironobu style. But then again the departure from the old classic turn based into an action  tactical turn based made the game enjoyable and fun, or  interesting.

The problem is the story it  just to short and lack of grandeur and less majestic feeling in term world setting and fantasy. It also has Star Wars Vibe. But i do love the political story , it just it's not to Fantasy compared to FF 10 and the rest. 

Yeah the battle is good it keep the RPG elemnet of tactic, turn based, but at the same time the option to move around and freedom 

The main reason I didn't like XII from the start was the battle system, as when you just start the game the gambits are quite confusing and limited in usage.

But after you understand it, it's amazing. It's brilliant, actually.

They give you full control of a party in real time, with the ability to manually intervene on anything at any point, and mix action, strategy and control the changes of pacing in combat at any time.

I also can't stress enough how much I like those guild hunts, the idea of going out to hunt menacing monsters that will only appear when you have the right info was so good. The towns in XII are also so cool.

FF12 is a mix of action, turn based, strategy, and MMO rpgs all into a single game.

Everything about XII is asthetically charming too, from the characters voices to the story itself.

I can't understand why it's not one of the most well regarded games (not only FF) out there, it's magic.

And even as yeah, Vaan is pretty forgetable, he also doesn't make the game any harm either.

I think that might be even worse a pure Souls like for me. FF15 combat was kind of bad, nowhere near as good as what Nomura would have delivered if he had been allowed to continue working on the project I'm sure. Nomura's FF7R system seems to be much better than FFXV from what I've seen of it (waiting on the Xbox port next year to play it myself). So mixing FFXV combat with Souls-like, which I hate, is just not something I hope is true for FF16. I'll take DMC or Dragon's Dogma like combat any day. 

I agree that they shouldn't go back to turn based on new numbered entries. If they want to do AA, Trials of Mana like remakes for some of the older FF games like 6, 8, and 9, I'd be ok with those staying turn based, but any AAA remakes like FF7 and any new numbered entries like 16 should be action-RPG's imo. 

As far as JRPGs go FF is still setting the bar both graphically/technically and in scope by far.

Try to find any JRPG that doesn't fill a gen behind FF15, and that game was once supposed to release on the PS3.

Overall quality wise, yeah, after XII FF did never cross 90 anymore and other games like Souls and Persona became the boasting subjects of JRPGs instead of FF.

It definitely fell hard from its complete dominance in relevancy within JRPGs since XIII.

XIV has become a big reference for MMORPGs tho.

Final Fantasy hasn't set the bar for RPGs, let alone the entire industry, for a very long time. So why are they taking pride in something that's not true?

Turn based games never lost their appeal either. You don't like them, fine. But they still appeal to a huge number of people.