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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X: The Most Powerful and Compatible Next Gen System

Good job by MS on B/C side as usual. It would have been more surprising if they failed to make it work on Series X.



 

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DonFerrari said:

Mr Puggsly said:

In 2016 Phil claimed 50% of users used BC. Given it will be available at launch, I bet the percentage of people that use BC on PS5 and Series X will be much higher than that.

I don't get why people keep saying BC doesn't bring many customers or any variation of that thought. Its a feature people want and many will use it, that's all I care about.

He also gave the average playtime on BC and it was very small.

Still using the BC and buying because of BC are different things. A lot of us use the console for Netflix, Prime, Crunchyroll, etc but I doubt any of us bought the console because of it.

The reason why we keep claiming it is because of data. Full BC with PS1 and PS2 was available on PS3 launch and didn't really help the sales, pricecut did even if they had to take out the BC. PS4 didn't had any and broke all records (even from PS2 that had BC), X1 didn't had acceleration in sales when BC released. Switch doesn't have BC and still sold record breaking numbers. There isn't a single iota of evidence that would prove BC improve sales.

So it is a nice feature but don't bring that many new sales, and since both consoles will have it that won't really be much of a differentiator.

That's also when BC was a new feature. The number of people that used it and the time spent likely increased significantly as notable titles were added. Its also worth noting BC titles are on Gold and Gamepass, so that further increases the number of users and time spent with BC.

BC is not the same as streaming video apps.

You're missing the point, as usual. Backward compatibility is a highly requested and ideal feature. Everybody should objectively want it because it adds value. A great feature doesn't have to become a debate about sales. Yet, guys like you turn it into a sales debate solely because PS4 didn't have it. Hence, same stupid discussion just because PS4 lacked a feature.

Both consoles have BC, so MS shouldn't market it? Again, a pointless argument. To me it seems MS's primary goal is encouraging people to buy a Series X to make their existing library better. They claim all Xbox One games are better on Series X. They also claim select 30 and 60 fps games will get a double frame rate boost. As a person with huge Xbox One library, that does encourage me to be an early adopter.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 29 May 2020

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hinch said:
Mr Puggsly said:

A video showed Gears Ultimate apparently running at 4K on BC. That would simply be 1080p at 2x scale.

If they applied that to all games, even the 720p games would suddenly become 1440p. Nothing is confirmed yet, but that showed it could be done.

4k is like four times the resolution of 1080p. Older titles should be easily be able to be emulated to 4k from 720p (360 era) one I would hope.

I guess it depends on how the BC is being done. On paper the Series X could make any 720p Xbox One game 4K.

At the very least though, it seems like MS can give games a 2x bump. So titles may vary from 1440p-4K. That would still be a vast improvement either way.



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for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

derpysquirtle64 said:
Good job by MS on B/C side as usual. It would have been more surprising if they failed to make it work on Series X.

You speak as if they're just promising to deliver BC. They're hyping more than that.

"Not only should gamers be able to play all of these games from the past, but they should play better than ever before. Backwards compatible games run natively on the Xbox Series X hardware, running with the full power of the CPU, GPU and the SSD. No boost mode, no downclocking, the full power of the Xbox Series X for each and every backward compatible game."

"We are also creating whole new classes of innovations including the ability to double the frame rate of a select set of titles from 30 fps to 60 fps or 60 fps to 120 fps..."

I'm curious for Sony to show their hand on BC. Will it be as great as MS is promising? Or is Sony's focus simply making BC work. I have a large PS4 collection as well, so I would hope for the former.



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hinch said:

@SvennoJ I'm talking full 4k internal resolution across the board for legacy titles, which shouldn't be too hard for next gen consoles. Especially for the disparity in hardware between the Series X > 360 for emulation.

Going to kindly disagree. Games will just look better all around even with just a resolution boost. Try playing any older legacy games on modern hardware, the boost in image quality means that even though textures are the same, but you can see more detail as there is more detail per pixels on screen. I've been playing on PC's for a long time and with emulators. Games running at higher resolutions native to display always looks better. Just look at he amount of remasters this generation.

I just hate to run anything 720p on my monitor or TV's it just looks like vaseline mess. Even running my base PS4 on my monitor leaves much to be desired.

No doubt it looks better. I'm just not expecting too much from it. Some older legacy games actually look worse to me when rendered at higher resolutions, flaws stand out. Just like some older movies reveal flaws at higher resolution and improved contrast. (Even when properly remastered and restored)

PC is a different beast since the switch to fixed resolution monitors. PC monitors are generally awful at upscaling, anything not displayed at native res looks like a vaseline blur. Mid range to high end TVs are far better at displaying different resolutions (with overscan though, doesn't work with pc connected)

To each their own I guess. Seeing perfect sharp anti aliased edges with low res textures looks out of place to me. I've enjoyed plenty remasters, more so for faster loading and stable fps than the improved visual quality. ICO is one of those remasters that looks very uneven. Plays great yet the pre-rendered old backgrounds clash horribly with the foreground. SotC remake, that's a beauty, but not anything an algorithm can produce from the original. The difference between the remaster of SotC and the remake is night and day.

Anyway, I'll play The last Guardian again on ps5 without frame rate issues. Anything that already had good frame rate, I'll pass.



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I appreciate those aspects of the Series X, and for those picking one up I'm happy for them. While I foresee Xbox Series X selling more than the Xbox One, these are not big enough aspects to have Xbox beat PlayStation. The lifetime hardware units battle each generation is just about never won by who has the best backwards compatibility or most powerful hardware. And it certainly isn't both of them in conjunction.
Now I could see myself one day maybe getting a Series X when it's far cheaper so I can have access to four generations of Xbox (though mainly Xbox One and Xbox Series X). But for now, I'm far more interested in Nintendo and PlayStation.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 144 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million)

PS5: 105 million Xbox Series S/X: 60 million

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

DonFerrari said:

Mr Puggsly said:

In 2016 Phil claimed 50% of users used BC. Given it will be available at launch, I bet the percentage of people that use BC on PS5 and Series X will be much higher than that.

I don't get why people keep saying BC doesn't bring many customers or any variation of that thought. Its a feature people want and many will use it, that's all I care about.

He also gave the average playtime on BC and it was very small.

Still using the BC and buying because of BC are different things. A lot of us use the console for Netflix, Prime, Crunchyroll, etc but I doubt any of us bought the console because of it.

The reason why we keep claiming it is because of data. Full BC with PS1 and PS2 was available on PS3 launch and didn't really help the sales, pricecut did even if they had to take out the BC. PS4 didn't had any and broke all records (even from PS2 that had BC), X1 didn't had acceleration in sales when BC released. Switch doesn't have BC and still sold record breaking numbers. There isn't a single iota of evidence that would prove BC improve sales.

So it is a nice feature but don't bring that many new sales, and since both consoles will have it that won't really be much of a differentiator.

GTA and Fortnite mean that BC is more important than usual. I'm sure Fortnite will get it's own next gen version and GTA might too in time but not having last gen's versions playable near launch would be a mistake.



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Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Wman1996 said:
I appreciate those aspects of the Series X, and for those picking one up I'm happy for them. While I foresee Xbox Series X selling more than the Xbox One, these are not big enough aspects to have Xbox beat PlayStation. The lifetime hardware units battle each generation is just about never won by who has the best backwards compatibility or most powerful hardware. And it certainly isn't both of them in conjunction.
Now I could see myself one day maybe getting a Series X when it's far cheaper so I can have access to four generations of Xbox (though mainly Xbox One and Xbox Series X). But for now, I'm far more interested in Nintendo and PlayStation.

Again, another pointless argument. MS isn't claiming they will win the generation with BC. With you logic, nothing should be discussed unless it will win the generation, its a stupid argument.

They are also in the process of creating many titles via their newly acquired studios.

To coin a phrase, MS is essentially firing on all cylinders compared to complaints of the previous gen. So why are people pretending BC is the only focus?



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
hinch said:
Nice. Would be awesome to see old legacy games running at higher res (like 1440p or 4k) and framerates. Should they launch a Series S, I'd be tempted to buy one for my older library and newer games.

A video showed Gears Ultimate apparently running at 4K on BC. That would simply be 1080p at 2x scale.

If they applied that to all games, even the 720p games would suddenly become 1440p. Nothing is confirmed yet, but that showed it could be done.

1080P > 4k/2160P is a 4x scale.

Mr Puggsly said:
Wman1996 said:
I appreciate those aspects of the Series X, and for those picking one up I'm happy for them. While I foresee Xbox Series X selling more than the Xbox One, these are not big enough aspects to have Xbox beat PlayStation. The lifetime hardware units battle each generation is just about never won by who has the best backwards compatibility or most powerful hardware. And it certainly isn't both of them in conjunction.
Now I could see myself one day maybe getting a Series X when it's far cheaper so I can have access to four generations of Xbox (though mainly Xbox One and Xbox Series X). But for now, I'm far more interested in Nintendo and PlayStation.

Again, another pointless argument. MS isn't claiming they will win the generation with BC. With you logic, nothing should be discussed unless it will win the generation, its a stupid argument.

They are also in the process of creating many titles via their newly acquired studios.

To coin a phrase, MS is essentially firing on all cylinders compared to complaints of the previous gen. So why are people pretending BC is the only focus?

It's a value-added incentive to purchase Microsoft's next-gen hardware, it's not the only selling point.

I'll be buying one.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SvennoJ said:

No doubt it looks better. I'm just not expecting too much from it. Some older legacy games actually look worse to me when rendered at higher resolutions, flaws stand out. Just like some older movies reveal flaws at higher resolution and improved contrast. (Even when properly remastered and restored)

PC is a different beast since the switch to fixed resolution monitors. PC monitors are generally awful at upscaling, anything not displayed at native res looks like a vaseline blur. Mid range to high end TVs are far better at displaying different resolutions (with overscan though, doesn't work with pc connected)

To each their own I guess. Seeing perfect sharp anti aliased edges with low res textures looks out of place to me. I've enjoyed plenty remasters, more so for faster loading and stable fps than the improved visual quality. ICO is one of those remasters that looks very uneven. Plays great yet the pre-rendered old backgrounds clash horribly with the foreground. SotC remake, that's a beauty, but not anything an algorithm can produce from the original. The difference between the remaster of SotC and the remake is night and day.

Anyway, I'll play The last Guardian again on ps5 without frame rate issues. Anything that already had good frame rate, I'll pass.

Yeah can be true as well. Some games might have some terrible character models or textures, which is much more apparent on high def. Kind of like getting some really revealing high end headphones and listening to badly mastered songs on it. Also it can be jarring to seeing up-scaled video's of CGI cutscenes in between gameplay so not is all sunshine and roses. There will probably be some settings to change from legacy emulation - as it was, or set to high res.

I'd love if PS5 had this as feature well. At least improve framerate and lock it to 30/60 fps. I have a copy RDR2 on PS4 (which I have still yet to complete) which i wouldn't mind playing on PS5.