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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X: The Most Powerful and Compatible Next Gen System

hinch on 29 May 2020
SvennoJ said:

No doubt it looks better. I'm just not expecting too much from it. Some older legacy games actually look worse to me when rendered at higher resolutions, flaws stand out. Just like some older movies reveal flaws at higher resolution and improved contrast. (Even when properly remastered and restored)

PC is a different beast since the switch to fixed resolution monitors. PC monitors are generally awful at upscaling, anything not displayed at native res looks like a vaseline blur. Mid range to high end TVs are far better at displaying different resolutions (with overscan though, doesn't work with pc connected)

To each their own I guess. Seeing perfect sharp anti aliased edges with low res textures looks out of place to me. I've enjoyed plenty remasters, more so for faster loading and stable fps than the improved visual quality. ICO is one of those remasters that looks very uneven. Plays great yet the pre-rendered old backgrounds clash horribly with the foreground. SotC remake, that's a beauty, but not anything an algorithm can produce from the original. The difference between the remaster of SotC and the remake is night and day.

Anyway, I'll play The last Guardian again on ps5 without frame rate issues. Anything that already had good frame rate, I'll pass.

Yeah can be true as well. Some games might have some terrible character models or textures, which is much more apparent on high def. Kind of like getting some really revealing high end headphones and listening to badly mastered songs on it. Also it can be jarring to seeing up-scaled video's of CGI cutscenes in between gameplay so not is all sunshine and roses. There will probably be some settings to change from legacy emulation - as it was, or set to high res.

I'd love if PS5 had this as feature well. At least improve framerate and lock it to 30/60 fps. I have a copy RDR2 on PS4 (which I have still yet to complete) which i wouldn't mind playing on PS5.



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sales2099 on 29 May 2020

How can anybody not be behind this initiative? My library carries forward, I keep my back log in tact to finish at my leisure, and certain games will look better then I remember. 360 is still my favourite Xbox generation, and I’m glad I can finish some games I’ve yet to try next gen.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Mr Puggsly on 29 May 2020
Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

A video showed Gears Ultimate apparently running at 4K on BC. That would simply be 1080p at 2x scale.

If they applied that to all games, even the 720p games would suddenly become 1440p. Nothing is confirmed yet, but that showed it could be done.

1080P > 4k/2160P is a 4x scale.

Mr Puggsly said:

Again, another pointless argument. MS isn't claiming they will win the generation with BC. With you logic, nothing should be discussed unless it will win the generation, its a stupid argument.

They are also in the process of creating many titles via their newly acquired studios.

To coin a phrase, MS is essentially firing on all cylinders compared to complaints of the previous gen. So why are people pretending BC is the only focus?

It's a value-added incentive to purchase Microsoft's next-gen hardware, it's not the only selling point.

I'll be buying one.

2x scale in gaming always seems to be doubling the resolution both ways. So I think its appropriate.

I am going into the 9th gen with about 800 Xbox games. Many of which I have not played and some will certainly benefit from the new specs. BC is a selling point for some of us along with new content.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 30 May 2020

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SvennoJ on 29 May 2020
hinch said:

Yeah can be true as well. Some games might have some terrible character models or textures, which is much more apparent on high def. Kind of like getting some really revealing high end headphones and listening to badly mastered songs on it. Also it can be jarring to seeing up-scaled video's of CGI cutscenes in between gameplay so not is all sunshine and roses. There will probably be some settings to change from legacy emulation - as it was, or set to high res.

I'd love if PS5 had this as feature well. At least improve framerate and lock it to 30/60 fps. I have a copy RDR2 on PS4 (which I have still yet to complete) which i wouldn't mind playing on PS5.

You also have true purists (not me) that don't even accept better fps. SotC was meant to be played at low fps, adds drama to the scenes... I get it when they're talking about games made for analog tvs, no amount of high res rendering can fix the lack of CRT magic. Well maybe they do have a point about frame rate. Character animation starts to stand out when everything else goes silky smooth. However that extreme slow down in Dark Souls on ps3 and SotC on ps2 was not by design. It doesn't bother me either that character animation in streets of rage 4 is not at 60fps while the rest of the game is.

RDR2 would benefit a lot from SSD. It would really benefit from real HDR, but I guess the game simply wasn't made with HDR in mind.



DonFerrari on 01 June 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

He also gave the average playtime on BC and it was very small.

Still using the BC and buying because of BC are different things. A lot of us use the console for Netflix, Prime, Crunchyroll, etc but I doubt any of us bought the console because of it.

The reason why we keep claiming it is because of data. Full BC with PS1 and PS2 was available on PS3 launch and didn't really help the sales, pricecut did even if they had to take out the BC. PS4 didn't had any and broke all records (even from PS2 that had BC), X1 didn't had acceleration in sales when BC released. Switch doesn't have BC and still sold record breaking numbers. There isn't a single iota of evidence that would prove BC improve sales.

So it is a nice feature but don't bring that many new sales, and since both consoles will have it that won't really be much of a differentiator.

That's also when BC was a new feature. The number of people that used it and the time spent likely increased significantly as notable titles were added. Its also worth noting BC titles are on Gold and Gamepass, so that further increases the number of users and time spent with BC.

BC is not the same as streaming video apps.

You're missing the point, as usual. Backward compatibility is a highly requested and ideal feature. Everybody should objectively want it because it adds value. A great feature doesn't have to become a debate about sales. Yet, guys like you turn it into a sales debate solely because PS4 didn't have it. Hence, same stupid discussion just because PS4 lacked a feature.

Both consoles have BC, so MS shouldn't market it? Again, a pointless argument. To me it seems MS's primary goal is encouraging people to buy a Series X to make their existing library better. They claim all Xbox One games are better on Series X. They also claim select 30 and 60 fps games will get a double frame rate boost. As a person with huge Xbox One library, that does encourage me to be an early adopter.

BC was a feature on PS2 and PS3 and wasn't relevant even with 100% coverage.

How am I missing the point? We have data on how relevant BC is and I also praised XSX BC effort. You came marching on my mention that it doesn't bring much new sales to try and disprove it to then move goal post.

Have no idea from where you took I said MS shouldn't market it. I guess you are mixing your dislike from me with actual points made.



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Machiavellian on 01 June 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

He also gave the average playtime on BC and it was very small.

Still using the BC and buying because of BC are different things. A lot of us use the console for Netflix, Prime, Crunchyroll, etc but I doubt any of us bought the console because of it.

The reason why we keep claiming it is because of data. Full BC with PS1 and PS2 was available on PS3 launch and didn't really help the sales, pricecut did even if they had to take out the BC. PS4 didn't had any and broke all records (even from PS2 that had BC), X1 didn't had acceleration in sales when BC released. Switch doesn't have BC and still sold record breaking numbers. There isn't a single iota of evidence that would prove BC improve sales.

So it is a nice feature but don't bring that many new sales, and since both consoles will have it that won't really be much of a differentiator.

That's also when BC was a new feature. The number of people that used it and the time spent likely increased significantly as notable titles were added. Its also worth noting BC titles are on Gold and Gamepass, so that further increases the number of users and time spent with BC.

BC is not the same as streaming video apps.

You're missing the point, as usual. Backward compatibility is a highly requested and ideal feature. Everybody should objectively want it because it adds value. A great feature doesn't have to become a debate about sales. Yet, guys like you turn it into a sales debate solely because PS4 didn't have it. Hence, same stupid discussion just because PS4 lacked a feature.

Both consoles have BC, so MS shouldn't market it? Again, a pointless argument. To me it seems MS's primary goal is encouraging people to buy a Series X to make their existing library better. They claim all Xbox One games are better on Series X. They also claim select 30 and 60 fps games will get a double frame rate boost. As a person with huge Xbox One library, that does encourage me to be an early adopter.

Gamepass also makes MS investment in BC a bigger deal for the company.  Since MS has OG, 360 and current gen on Gamepass, the system can easily become the arcade series X as MS expand and improve their BC.  I noticed that I have started to play some OG games I missed as well as 360 because they are on gamepass.



eva01beserk on 01 June 2020

I have very little appeal for BC. Maybe a few games like RDR2 and MGS5 that I havent beaten. But I see this as both MS and Sony not trying to gain new costumers as this will mean very little to people who probably skiped that companies 8th gen, but it will give incentives thouse who did have their current version to upgrade instead of jumping to the competitor. My honest thought is MS is pushing so hard this feture is mainly cuz they know so many are displeased with the x1 turnout and are probably thinking of going with the ps5. They will push hard to make thouse 45m to try and stay. In any case, adding BC can only be a good thing in my opinion.



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Dallinor on 01 June 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

I remember a clear new from Phil or someone of that level saying they had put a stop on launching new BC titles while they were working on Series X, I think it was Scarlet the codename? So with the XSX being near release they will probably add many more og xbox and x360 titles on the system while keeping almost 100% X1 also BC for XSX. All of that with automatic improvements so less burden on the team with some improvement for the user, even though BC doesn't bring many customers and I usually only play new titles this is a solid implementation.

In 2016 Phil claimed 50% of users used BC. Given it will be available at launch, I bet the percentage of people that use BC on PS5 and Series X will be much higher than that.

I don't get why people keep saying BC doesn't bring many customers or any variation of that thought. Its a feature people want and many will use it, that's all I care about.

Yeah roughly 50% had used it, but the total hours clocked in were in the region of 30 hours per gamer. Meanwhile the games on the ID@xbox program saw 4 times as many hours played than BC. The Ars Technica survey showed only 1.5% of a million xbox gamers over the course of 5 months used the feature. 11 times as many used Youtube.

Hard to draw any meaningful stats from it. Particularly as we don't know what games, or how many, were being played either. It could have been a select few titles with the overwhelming majority of hours.

It is certainly a selling point for Xbox though. They're not making a commitment to it for no reason. It may be the case that it's worth more as marketing because it helps to distinguish them from the competition, than as an actual function.



 

d21lewis on 01 June 2020

Whether BC is a big deal or not, I'm glad to have it.

The reason I gave away my GameCube and PS2 were because the successors had BC. I gave my Wii away, too but my sister gave it back early this year. I love the feature, especially when it has the option to make older games better.

We've had a lot of variations on bc. Systems had the feature and failed (Wii U). Systems have had the feature and dominated (DS). Some systems didn't have it and were spectacular successes. Some only support bc for digital purchases. No matter what, I'd rather have it than not.

My two pennies.



Mr Puggsly on 01 June 2020
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

That's also when BC was a new feature. The number of people that used it and the time spent likely increased significantly as notable titles were added. Its also worth noting BC titles are on Gold and Gamepass, so that further increases the number of users and time spent with BC.

BC is not the same as streaming video apps.

You're missing the point, as usual. Backward compatibility is a highly requested and ideal feature. Everybody should objectively want it because it adds value. A great feature doesn't have to become a debate about sales. Yet, guys like you turn it into a sales debate solely because PS4 didn't have it. Hence, same stupid discussion just because PS4 lacked a feature.

Both consoles have BC, so MS shouldn't market it? Again, a pointless argument. To me it seems MS's primary goal is encouraging people to buy a Series X to make their existing library better. They claim all Xbox One games are better on Series X. They also claim select 30 and 60 fps games will get a double frame rate boost. As a person with huge Xbox One library, that does encourage me to be an early adopter.

BC was a feature on PS2 and PS3 and wasn't relevant even with 100% coverage.

How am I missing the point? We have data on how relevant BC is and I also praised XSX BC effort. You came marching on my mention that it doesn't bring much new sales to try and disprove it to then move goal post.

Have no idea from where you took I said MS shouldn't market it. I guess you are mixing your dislike from me with actual points made.

You're absolutely right. It would suggest people care more about 7th/8th gen BC vs 5th/6th gen. I've argued many times that the 7th gen had a massive number of notable games, far more than previous gens. I essentially feel the same about the 8th, not a lot of ground breaking content but many notable titles and online experiences.

It doesn't really matter if BC brings sales per se, everybody wants it. You only focus on it sales because you're seemingly bitter PS4 lacked it. "But... but... sales!"

"since both consoles will have it that won't really be much of a differentiator." This implies mentioning BC is moot since both 9th gen consoles have it. Their goal is not simply focusing on differentiators, they are getting people hyped about what their BC will do.

There may be significant differentiators on how BC is handled and what improvements are available. Both simply offering BC doesn't exactly make them equal. So again, I'm curious to see what Sony is going to offer for BC given I have a large collection of PS4 games as well.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 02 June 2020

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