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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X's cross-gen approach is robbing players of the next-gen thrill

goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not just making a blanket statement, I'm looking at individual games.

We were looking at titles like Ryse, Killzone:SF and Infamous:SS in particular. The goalpost seems to be moving to all games could work on 7th gen.

Anyway, I think we agree some constraints are just due to typical game design. When developers get better specs to work with, much of it often just goes to better presentation. I mean the UE5 wasn't boasting about a new gameplay experiences per se, it was showing us how dank rocks look with advanced lighting effects.

You were expecting new gameplay experiences from an engine tech demo? 

That’s not what he said. And you expected next gen launch lineups to be full of new gameplay experiences. Like that’s any less far fetched.



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goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not just making a blanket statement, I'm looking at individual games.

We were looking at titles like Ryse, Killzone:SF and Infamous:SS in particular. The goalpost seems to be moving to all games could work on 7th gen.

Anyway, I think we agree some constraints are just due to typical game design. When developers get better specs to work with, much of it often just goes to better presentation. I mean the UE5 wasn't boasting about a new gameplay experiences per se, it was showing us how dank rocks look with advanced lighting effects.

You were expecting new gameplay experiences from an engine tech demo? 

I think he means that you have spent months claiming that what you want from next gen is new gameplay that was not possible on previous gens, and yet the only video that got you hyped and made you say "Oh! now this is next gen!" was a video of a girl climbing some rocks and then jumping like the girl from Gravity Rush on PS Vita.



Robbing? I guess "next gen-thrill" is way more important than being consumer friendly. Lets not forgot how the world is going through a pandemic and people are losing their jobs or not working enough hours. Giving those people the option to not have to buy a brand new system is the consumer friendly thing to do. Btw, this article is focused mainly on the xbox showcasing, while it wasn't spectacular great, it hardly showed all the games for next gen. We still don't even know what all the launch titles will be for either system.



LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

You were expecting new gameplay experiences from an engine tech demo? 

That’s not what he said. And you expected next gen launch lineups to be full of new gameplay experiences. Like that’s any less far fetched.

Shouldn't we all be expecting new experiences from next gen consoles? 

New experiences don't mean a complete u-turn in how we play games, though. Unless you're saying the Wii was more next gen than the 360/ps3 back then.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 18 May 2020

chakkra said:
goopy20 said:

You were expecting new gameplay experiences from an engine tech demo? 

I think he means that you have spent months claiming that what you want from next gen is new gameplay that was not possible on previous gens, and yet the only video that got you hyped and made you say "Oh! now this is next gen!" was a video of a girl climbing some rocks and then jumping like the girl from Gravity Rush on PS Vita.

Bingo, I couldn't have said it better.



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goopy20 said:

Shouldn't we all be expecting new experiences from next gen consoles? I mean what else would be the point is releasing them? New experiences doesn't mean a complete u-turn in how we play games today, though.

Well people on the web are demanding completely new experiences last gen couldn't handle. Isn't that why the MS's cross gen strategy was attacked?

The market though, many will play Call of Duty, Minecraft, Fortnite, etc.

Anyway, I was just pointing out the UE5 demo just showed how the new tech can make better graphics. Now how it can create unique experiences.



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DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not just making a blanket statement, I'm looking at individual games.

We were looking at titles like Ryse, Killzone:SF and Infamous:SS in particular. The goalpost seems to be moving to all games could work on 7th gen.

Anyway, I think we agree some constraints are just due to typical game design. When developers get better specs to work with, much of it often just goes to better presentation. I mean the UE5 wasn't boasting about a new gameplay experiences per se, it was showing us how dank rocks look with advanced lighting effects.

Those games couldn't be done on 7th gen Hardware without major cuts on them, you just claim otherwise and show as evidence that other games were done on the previous gen HW and you think they aren't inferior. That is basically a baseless claim.

You are wrong. The game design receive constraints because of the HW not the other way around. And sure the UE5 tech demo didn't show a new gameplay experience because it is a tool being showed not a game.

Mr Puggsly said:

Great job, that's not what I was arguing.

I just don't think storage medium bottle neck was a significant barrier that limited 8th gen game design.

And your thinking is wrong and disproven by basically all devs that talked about the storage being a constrain in several different stances that you are just chosing to ignore.

I'm mentioning 7th gen games that were more ambitious and enjoyable than the early next gen exclusives.

You're suggesting Killzone:SF would need significant cutbacks to work on 7th gen consoles, even though I can think of numerous FPS titles that are more ambitious and enjoyable on 7th gen. Far Cry 4 for example is much better, in an open world, much more ambitious. Yet its somehow a cross gen game seemingly with little compromise.

Like I said before, God of War could have been a larger scale game if desired. The hardware is fully capable of doing it. The constraint was game design. I can't be wrong, this is reality.

Uh huh, I believe for typical game design a bigger constraint was GPU and CPU, not storage. I mean we see many games that struggle with limited GPU and CPU capabilities. I can't really think of any games that were struggling with the storage speed. Just Cause 3 didn't run poorly because HDDs weren't streaming data fast enough. Also, storage speed can't compensate for bottleneck elsewhere.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Those games couldn't be done on 7th gen Hardware without major cuts on them, you just claim otherwise and show as evidence that other games were done on the previous gen HW and you think they aren't inferior. That is basically a baseless claim.

You are wrong. The game design receive constraints because of the HW not the other way around. And sure the UE5 tech demo didn't show a new gameplay experience because it is a tool being showed not a game.

And your thinking is wrong and disproven by basically all devs that talked about the storage being a constrain in several different stances that you are just chosing to ignore.

I'm mentioning 7th gen games that were more ambitious and enjoyable than the early next gen exclusives.

You're suggesting Killzone:SF would need significant cutbacks to work on 7th gen consoles, even though I can think of numerous FPS titles that are more ambitious and enjoyable on 7th gen. Far Cry 4 for example is much better, in an open world, much more ambitious. Yet its somehow a cross gen game seemingly with little compromise.

Like I said before, God of War could have been a larger scale game if desired. The hardware is fully capable of doing it. The constraint was game design. I can't be wrong, this is reality.

Uh huh, I believe for typical game design a bigger constraint was GPU and CPU, not storage. I mean we see many games that struggle with limited GPU and CPU capabilities. I can't really think of any games that were struggling with the storage speed. Just Cause 3 didn't run poorly because HDDs weren't streaming data fast enough. Also, storage speed can't compensate for bottleneck elsewhere.

Yes zero progress made on the conversation. You know better than the devs.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The scorn devs just said the game not possible on current get mainly due to CPU. Sais ssd helps a lot. No matter how people spin it, breaking free of hardware shackles gives devs more options to experiment and wow us.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm mentioning 7th gen games that were more ambitious and enjoyable than the early next gen exclusives.

You're suggesting Killzone:SF would need significant cutbacks to work on 7th gen consoles, even though I can think of numerous FPS titles that are more ambitious and enjoyable on 7th gen. Far Cry 4 for example is much better, in an open world, much more ambitious. Yet its somehow a cross gen game seemingly with little compromise.

Like I said before, God of War could have been a larger scale game if desired. The hardware is fully capable of doing it. The constraint was game design. I can't be wrong, this is reality.

Uh huh, I believe for typical game design a bigger constraint was GPU and CPU, not storage. I mean we see many games that struggle with limited GPU and CPU capabilities. I can't really think of any games that were struggling with the storage speed. Just Cause 3 didn't run poorly because HDDs weren't streaming data fast enough. Also, storage speed can't compensate for bottleneck elsewhere.

Yes zero progress made on the conversation. You know better than the devs.

I think the issue here is that you guys put way to much credit into whatever the devs say. I think that is a terrible mistake because a) they want to sell their games, and b) they will always make excuses to justify not putting things into said games.

Just to give you an example: recently the devs from Scorn and The Medium said they chose the XSX bcuz their "vision" would just not be possible on the X1. Yeah, that was bs. Just like when Obsidian said that Outer Worlds was limited by current hardware, as if there were not many bigger and graphically more complex games out there. Yeah, that was bs too.

Also, I'm here scratching my head trying to remember exactly what gameplay element was present in KZ:Shadowfall that didn't exist in any of the FPS from the gen before.