Forums - Gaming Discussion - Unreal 5 Demo vs Series X Reveal

Which event got you more impressed?

Xbox Series X Gameplay Event 25 27.17%
 
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 Demo 67 72.83%
 
Total:92
goopy20 said:
shikamaru317 said:

The SSD in XSX is plenty fast enough to prevent pop-in. It's throughput is something like 40x faster than the 5400 RPM hard drives in XB1 and PS4. The faster SSD in PS5 will mainly show itself in load times I think, but even then I think it'll be a fairly small improvement.

The only thing Sony seems to have talked about is their SSD tech and how its supposed to be a game changer. Loads of people where skeptical but that Unreal demo did a pretty good job at showing what it all means. Series X also has a very fast SSD but Sony's is still twice as fast. I guess we have to wait and see what that means and how big a role Sony's SSD played in getting those visuals from the Unreal demo on screen. Either Sony paid Epic off, or they truly think Sony's SSD is the biggest breakthrough when it comes to next gen hardware.

In order for us to know exactly how much impact the SSD will have we would need to see comparisons of PC and XSX running the same demo and giving the same time and effort for optimization.  That demo did nothing to really tell us how much difference Sony SSD makes.  Until we see actual games from both companies taking advantage of their hardware we really will not get a clear picture on this front.



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Machiavellian said:
goopy20 said:

I never said I had a problem with just better graphics. I mean isn't more immersion the whole point of next gen consoles? Having the same graphics we're seeing now but in native 4k and 60fps is a different story, though. That's the difference with that Unreal demo and Series X's first look at next gen games. One is build specifically to push and showcase the ps5 capabilities at 30fps/ 1440p (what I've been saying for months should be the standard next gen), while MS only showed current gen graphics that scale to 4k/ 60fps on Series X. 

Now I'm sure the tech demo could run on Series X as well, but only if it was designed exclusively to push Series X to its limits and not if it also had to run on Xone. My whole issue with MS's strategy is that pushing the Series X's hardware isn't their main goal. Instead, they're going with a cross gen (smart delivery) strategy and want to reach as broad an audience as possible. Maybe I'm totally wrong and MS will surprise me in July, but I highly doubt it as they've been pretty open about their vision for next gen. I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of "optimized for Series X" logos during their 1st party showcase that will look nowhere close to that unreal tech demo. I'm also guessing Sony will have games that are designed to push next gen visuals with a much higher wow factor, not because Sony has the better hardware or better studios, it's simply because they have different strategies. And for anyone interested in next gen visuals, MS's approach kinda sucks.

Your last paragraph doesn't really make sense.  UE5 is a cross platform engine that scales all the way down to mobile devices.  As with any game, you turn on new features for the latest hardware and just turn off those features for hardware that doesn't support it.  This has been going on for PC games since forever so it makes no difference in the Console space.  Having a game that cost millions to make only work on your newest hardware probably in this day and age probably way to expensive.  I doubt we will see any only PS5 games from Sony as well unless they are small projects. If anything it will be like UE.  At the end of the day, only the SSD is really anything special on the PS5, everything else is just more memory and more grunt on the CPU/GPU.  Expecting to see anything more than graphical leaps at this point any of the consoles including PC can do with more power.  Seeing how well the SSD is integrated in next gen will be the key but probably will not see that until 2 years after release.

Of course it will scale down, but any engine is useless without the hardware to push it. I'm sure Unreal 5 will work on the Switch and mobiles as well, but the hardware is obviously not capable of rendering billions of polygons or tons of movie quality assets on the fly. 

The thing with this Unreal demo is that is showed exactly what Sony promised when they talked about their SSD tech. Bigger worlds, far more complex level design, tons of assets variation and new ways in how you move around in these worlds. The spider man tech demo showed it and here we also saw how fast she moved through the world without any sort of pop ins, and seamless transitions between indoor and outdoor locations. It's all stuff Sony's SSD was designed for and we'll have to see how MS's SSD compares. If both consoles are priced the same then I'm guessing Series X will be better at things like Ray Tracing and native 4k, while the ps5 can probably do things with their SSD that are not possible on Series X. In multiplatform games we might not see much of a difference, but I got a feeling it will be pretty obvious with the exclusives.   

Last edited by goopy20 - on 14 May 2020

Leynos said:
chakkra said:

Medium is the one that is going to be exclusive to Series X, and Scorn is going to be exclusive to Xbox famiy and PC.

Where did it say exclusive? Also Scorn has been in development hell for 6 years. The guy running that show is a prick and had a failed KS for this game. It keeps starting over. Welcom to the new Deep Down. 90s Arcade Racer and what not.

The developers confirmed it on this tweet:

https://twitter.com/TheMediumGame/status/1258786146273955851?s=20

Now, with that being said, their last game was a timed-exclusive for X1 so I guess there is always the chance that this one might come to PS5 some time in the future.



Kristof81 said:

Well UE5 was way more impressive, however, it's a tech demo. UE4 tech demos also looked very impressive (7 years ago), and not many games achieved this level of fidelity since then. Remember PS3 tech demos? Also, the UE5 is not going to be available until next year. MS, on the other hand, showed actual games, so of course it's less impressive, but more important.

Unreal Engine 3 tech demo (2011)

Wait, that UE3 demo looks better than the current gen games



I do think that Sony will show actual gameplay from exclusives that will look like or come near of what we have seen in this techdemo,they have to have calculated in that otherwise it would look like a step back in the eyes of the consumer.

They have their own engines that could possible achieve the same(nearly) .



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Oneeee-Chan!!! said:
Kristof81 said:

Well UE5 was way more impressive, however, it's a tech demo. UE4 tech demos also looked very impressive (7 years ago), and not many games achieved this level of fidelity since then. Remember PS3 tech demos? Also, the UE5 is not going to be available until next year. MS, on the other hand, showed actual games, so of course it's less impressive, but more important.

Unreal Engine 3 tech demo (2011)

Wait, that UE3 demo looks better than the current gen games

Eh, not really imo. I see a fair amount of aliasing artifacts in the Samaritan demo, many current gen games make use of good anti-aliasing solutions that almost entirely eliminate aliasing. We have definitely seen character models that surpassed those in the Samaritan demo, just look at the characters in games like Uncharted 4, God of War, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Batman Arkham Knight is a great game for comparing the night-time rainy city graphics against the Samaritan demo, I'd say that Arkham Knight largely matches Samaritan in that regard.  

I do feel like the Infiltrator Unreal 4 demo from 2013 hasn't really been matched by any current-gen games though sadly.



shikamaru317 said:
thismeintiel said:

Maybe with pop in galore.

@ OP

Funny how people thought Sony was behind. Now we have reveals of what really matters, gameplay/games. XSX is getting ratioed and the PS5 is going viral. Who's behind?

The SSD in XSX is plenty fast enough to prevent pop-in. It's throughput is something like 40x faster than the 5400 RPM hard drives in XB1 and PS4. The faster SSD in PS5 will mainly show itself in load times I think, but even then I think it'll be a fairly small improvement.

You still haven't figured out what the Cerny talk was about, apparently. Hint: It has pretty much nothing to do with load times.

As far as this UE5 demo goes, we have no idea how much data is streamed, averaged per second, or what the peak rates are. I somehow doubt it's in the GB/s as that would end in games that are TBs in size...

We know that in the PS5 architecture, the whole streaming is in hardware and apparently has a theoretical ceiling of 20GB/s as per Cerny, and averages <=8.5GB/s after decompression. All we know from the XSX is that it has a transfer rate that bests around 4.8GB/s after decompression for texture files (and lower GB/s for other stuff). We have no idea what happens afterwards with that <=4.8GB/s but we know the data is in gpu memory space at least. We know that PCs currently are heavily disadvantaged because the decompressed (by one or more cpu cores) data is in cpu memory space.

As UE5 won't be available until 2021 (probably with a somewhat steep learning curve attached to it), it'll be a long wait for the first spectacular games in UE5 to show up on consoles.



goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

How in the world could you of all people have been remotely impressed by that demo, you who have been preaching for months about how Microsoft's continuing to support Xbone would ruin their next gen games and have them offer nothing new outside of graphics. That tech demo was literally a current gen game with effects turned way up, right down to the whole "squeeze through this corridor" sequence next gen was supposed to get rid of with SSD's. Plus it's 30 frames per second and 1440p. With nothing much at all happening in the game for the hardware to handle. There were some birds or bats flying around in a scripted sequence.

Your second paragraph makes no sense. This is an engine. Of course it can scale lol

edit, apparently it was a scaling resolution and went lower than 1440p, that was simply the max.

I never said I had a problem with just better graphics. I mean isn't more immersion the whole point of next gen consoles? Having the same graphics we're seeing now but in native 4k and 60fps is a different story, though. That's the difference with that Unreal demo and Series X's first look at next gen games. One is build specifically to push and showcase the ps5 capabilities at 30fps/ 1440p (what I've been saying for months should be the standard next gen), while MS only showed current gen graphics that scale to 4k/ 60fps on Series X. 

Now I'm sure the tech demo could run on Series X as well, but only if it was designed exclusively to push Series X to its limits and not if it also had to run on Xone. My whole issue with MS's strategy is that pushing the Series X's hardware isn't their main goal. Instead, they're going with a cross gen (smart delivery) strategy and want to reach as broad an audience as possible. Maybe I'm totally wrong and MS will surprise me in July, but I highly doubt it as they've been pretty open about their vision for next gen. I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of "optimized for Series X" logos during their 1st party showcase that will look nowhere close to that unreal tech demo. I'm also guessing Sony will have games that are designed to push next gen visuals with a much higher wow factor, not because Sony has the better hardware or better studios, it's simply because they have different strategies. And for anyone interested in next gen visuals, MS's approach kinda sucks.

You made a ton of posts about how next gen is about more than better graphics and how it should be about new experiences not possible on previous hardware and how Microsoft was ruining that by supporting cross gen for a year max. This tech demo offered nothing new gameplay wise and was just better graphics and that’s fine by you? Bizarre. If that’s all it takes then all your worrying about XSX was for naught. They can crank up the graphics to 11 on any title regardless of cross gen or not.

They had a showcase for third party content. Where are you getting this idea that they’re pushing Smart Delivery and not focusing on the XSX hardware. If that were true then what is the point of smart delivery lol



goopy20 said:

The thing with this Unreal demo is that is showed exactly what Sony promised when they talked about their SSD tech. Bigger worlds, far more complex level design, tons of assets variation and new ways in how you move around in these worlds. The spider man tech demo showed it and here we also saw how fast she moved through the world without any sort of pop ins, and seamless transitions between indoor and outdoor locations. It's all stuff Sony's SSD was designed for and we'll have to see how MS's SSD compares. If both consoles are priced the same then I'm guessing Series X will be better at things like Ray Tracing and native 4k, while the ps5 can probably do things with their SSD that are not possible on Series X. In multiplatform games we might not see much of a difference, but I got a feeling it will be pretty obvious with the exclusives.   

But this demo showed the stuff Microsoft promised with Series X as well. Bigger and more detailed worlds and stuff. But I didn't see the stuff Sony promised about level design for example. To me it looked like the demo still did things like squeezing through corridor, turning a wheel etc to load things on background. It was very linear. 



Soundwave said:

Who cares, the XBox SX will run the same demo at likely higher performance.

Yep so true!