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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Unreal 5 Demo vs Series X Reveal

 

Which event got you more impressed?

Xbox Series X Gameplay Event 25 27.17%
 
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 Demo 67 72.83%
 
Total:92
LudicrousSpeed on 14 May 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

How in the world could you of all people have been remotely impressed by that demo, you who have been preaching for months about how Microsoft's continuing to support Xbone would ruin their next gen games and have them offer nothing new outside of graphics. That tech demo was literally a current gen game with effects turned way up, right down to the whole "squeeze through this corridor" sequence next gen was supposed to get rid of with SSD's. Plus it's 30 frames per second and 1440p. With nothing much at all happening in the game for the hardware to handle. There were some birds or bats flying around in a scripted sequence.

Your second paragraph makes no sense. This is an engine. Of course it can scale lol

edit, apparently it was a scaling resolution and went lower than 1440p, that was simply the max.

I never said I had a problem with just better graphics. I mean isn't more immersion the whole point of next gen consoles? Having the same graphics we're seeing now but in native 4k and 60fps is a different story, though. That's the difference with that Unreal demo and Series X's first look at next gen games. One is build specifically to push and showcase the ps5 capabilities at 30fps/ 1440p (what I've been saying for months should be the standard next gen), while MS only showed current gen graphics that scale to 4k/ 60fps on Series X. 

Now I'm sure the tech demo could run on Series X as well, but only if it was designed exclusively to push Series X to its limits and not if it also had to run on Xone. My whole issue with MS's strategy is that pushing the Series X's hardware isn't their main goal. Instead, they're going with a cross gen (smart delivery) strategy and want to reach as broad an audience as possible. Maybe I'm totally wrong and MS will surprise me in July, but I highly doubt it as they've been pretty open about their vision for next gen. I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of "optimized for Series X" logos during their 1st party showcase that will look nowhere close to that unreal tech demo. I'm also guessing Sony will have games that are designed to push next gen visuals with a much higher wow factor, not because Sony has the better hardware or better studios, it's simply because they have different strategies. And for anyone interested in next gen visuals, MS's approach kinda sucks.

You made a ton of posts about how next gen is about more than better graphics and how it should be about new experiences not possible on previous hardware and how Microsoft was ruining that by supporting cross gen for a year max. This tech demo offered nothing new gameplay wise and was just better graphics and that’s fine by you? Bizarre. If that’s all it takes then all your worrying about XSX was for naught. They can crank up the graphics to 11 on any title regardless of cross gen or not.

They had a showcase for third party content. Where are you getting this idea that they’re pushing Smart Delivery and not focusing on the XSX hardware. If that were true then what is the point of smart delivery lol



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KiigelHeart on 14 May 2020
goopy20 said:

The thing with this Unreal demo is that is showed exactly what Sony promised when they talked about their SSD tech. Bigger worlds, far more complex level design, tons of assets variation and new ways in how you move around in these worlds. The spider man tech demo showed it and here we also saw how fast she moved through the world without any sort of pop ins, and seamless transitions between indoor and outdoor locations. It's all stuff Sony's SSD was designed for and we'll have to see how MS's SSD compares. If both consoles are priced the same then I'm guessing Series X will be better at things like Ray Tracing and native 4k, while the ps5 can probably do things with their SSD that are not possible on Series X. In multiplatform games we might not see much of a difference, but I got a feeling it will be pretty obvious with the exclusives.   

But this demo showed the stuff Microsoft promised with Series X as well. Bigger and more detailed worlds and stuff. But I didn't see the stuff Sony promised about level design for example. To me it looked like the demo still did things like squeezing through corridor, turning a wheel etc to load things on background. It was very linear. 



Jigsawx1 on 14 May 2020
Soundwave said:

Who cares, the XBox SX will run the same demo at likely higher performance.

Yep so true!



Machiavellian on 14 May 2020
goopy20 said:
Machiavellian said:

Your last paragraph doesn't really make sense.  UE5 is a cross platform engine that scales all the way down to mobile devices.  As with any game, you turn on new features for the latest hardware and just turn off those features for hardware that doesn't support it.  This has been going on for PC games since forever so it makes no difference in the Console space.  Having a game that cost millions to make only work on your newest hardware probably in this day and age probably way to expensive.  I doubt we will see any only PS5 games from Sony as well unless they are small projects. If anything it will be like UE.  At the end of the day, only the SSD is really anything special on the PS5, everything else is just more memory and more grunt on the CPU/GPU.  Expecting to see anything more than graphical leaps at this point any of the consoles including PC can do with more power.  Seeing how well the SSD is integrated in next gen will be the key but probably will not see that until 2 years after release.

Of course it will scale down, but any engine is useless without the hardware to push it. I'm sure Unreal 5 will work on the Switch and mobiles as well, but the hardware is obviously not capable of rendering billions of polygons or tons of movie quality assets on the fly. 

The thing with this Unreal demo is that is showed exactly what Sony promised when they talked about their SSD tech. Bigger worlds, far more complex level design, tons of assets variation and new ways in how you move around in these worlds. The spider man tech demo showed it and here we also saw how fast she moved through the world without any sort of pop ins, and seamless transitions between indoor and outdoor locations. It's all stuff Sony's SSD was designed for and we'll have to see how MS's SSD compares. If both consoles are priced the same then I'm guessing Series X will be better at things like Ray Tracing and native 4k, while the ps5 can probably do things with their SSD that are not possible on Series X. In multiplatform games we might not see much of a difference, but I got a feeling it will be pretty obvious with the exclusives.   

Still, not understanding your point.  The UE5 can work on any hardware new and old. Its not being held back by supporting the PS4,X1 or supporting a mobile platform so how does that translate to MS holding back the pontential of the XSX when they either use UE5 or their own engine since they can also do the same.  Add features that support new hardware.

In the UE5 demo we did not see any new gameplay design. Everything that was demoed could be scaled down to work on older hardware.  We saw the lighting engine which can be scaled down, we saw the polycount and textures which can be scaled down.  Even the flying part can be scaled down.  Nothing shown could not be scaled down to work on older hardware which is what a good engine does.

Also the SSD has nothing to do with the lighting or polycount in the demo, at best the only part of the demo where I can see the SSD helping was during the flying part to stream in assets.



Oneeee-Chan!!! on 14 May 2020
Jigsawx1 said:
Soundwave said:

Who cares, the XBox SX will run the same demo at likely higher performance.

Yep so true!

Waiting for MS to show us how to run the demo on Series X.



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goopy20 on 14 May 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

I never said I had a problem with just better graphics. I mean isn't more immersion the whole point of next gen consoles? Having the same graphics we're seeing now but in native 4k and 60fps is a different story, though. That's the difference with that Unreal demo and Series X's first look at next gen games. One is build specifically to push and showcase the ps5 capabilities at 30fps/ 1440p (what I've been saying for months should be the standard next gen), while MS only showed current gen graphics that scale to 4k/ 60fps on Series X. 

Now I'm sure the tech demo could run on Series X as well, but only if it was designed exclusively to push Series X to its limits and not if it also had to run on Xone. My whole issue with MS's strategy is that pushing the Series X's hardware isn't their main goal. Instead, they're going with a cross gen (smart delivery) strategy and want to reach as broad an audience as possible. Maybe I'm totally wrong and MS will surprise me in July, but I highly doubt it as they've been pretty open about their vision for next gen. I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of "optimized for Series X" logos during their 1st party showcase that will look nowhere close to that unreal tech demo. I'm also guessing Sony will have games that are designed to push next gen visuals with a much higher wow factor, not because Sony has the better hardware or better studios, it's simply because they have different strategies. And for anyone interested in next gen visuals, MS's approach kinda sucks.

You made a ton of posts about how next gen is about more than better graphics and how it should be about new experiences not possible on previous hardware and how Microsoft was ruining that by supporting cross gen for a year max. This tech demo offered nothing new gameplay wise and was just better graphics and that’s fine by you? Bizarre. If that’s all it takes then all your worrying about XSX was for naught. They can crank up the graphics to 11 on any title regardless of cross gen or not.

They had a showcase for third party content. Where are you getting this idea that they’re pushing Smart Delivery and not focusing on the XSX hardware. If that were true then what is the point of smart delivery lol

I never said that man. I said games like Infamous SS and Shadowfall were true next gen game. Maybe they weren't great games but they did a good job showing the leap from ps3, and at the very least, were good promotion for a next gen console. As I said, true next gen games don't need an explanation why they can't be on current gen, the graphics should speak for itself. That's not the same as cross gen titles running at a higher res/ framerate on next gen consoles. I mean, why do you think people are far more excited about next gen after seeing the Unreal demo than any of the "optimized for Series X" games?

We already know MS is not focusing on pushing the Series X hardware because Phil Spencer has straight out told us so lol. They're being all consumer friendly, making all their 1st party games cross gen, so people aren't "forced" to upgrade, remember? 



kirby007 on 14 May 2020
Bandorr said:
Jigsawx1 said:

Yep so true!

That's already been disproved.  Windows Central had the same thought. They deleted their tweet. It could run a different demo. It couldn't ran that demo, and definitely not at a higher performance.

Actually I'd like to see that. A different demo running for the XSX. Then the digital foundry comparing them.

fun fact he saids its better then PCs not the XSX



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kirby007 on 14 May 2020

the statement he made was specifically comparing with current gen PCs, not with XSX but hey just copy a random guy on twitter



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 on 14 May 2020

i dont get how you dont grasp the simple fact that the Epic CEO never said the XSX couldnt run this demo



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

chakkra on 14 May 2020
Bandorr said:
Jigsawx1 said:

Yep so true!

That's already been disproved.  Windows Central had the same thought. They deleted their tweet. It could run a different demo. It couldn't ran that demo, and definitely not at a higher performance.

Actually I'd like to see that. A different demo running for the XSX. Then the digital foundry comparing them.

This is a piece of the PCGamer interview with Epic Games:

"A number of different components are required to render at this level of detail," says Sweeney. "One is GPU performance and GPU architecture to draw an incredible amount of geometry. You're talking about a very large number of teraflops being required for this. The other is the ability to load and stream it efficiently."

Would this demo run on my PC with a RTX 2070 Super? Yes, according to Libreri, and I should get "pretty good" performance. For comparison, the PlayStation 5 GPU the demo video was captured on achieves 10.28 teraflops, while the RTX 2070 Super hits just over 9 teraflops. 

Regarding loading and streaming, though, Sweeney says that the PlayStation 5's SSD architecture is "god-tier" and "pretty far ahead of PCs," but that you should still get "awesome performance" with an NVMe SSD, which I'm using."

https://www.pcgamer.com/unreal-engine-5-tech-demo/