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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Next gen PS5/XB1SX sales ratio will look the same as this gen's. Huge changes in console marketshare require huge changes in the industry.

smroadkill15 on 14 May 2020
eva01beserk said:
smroadkill15 said:

Halo Infinite has been in development for 5 years. I would consider that a break. Turn 10/playground are given extra time to work on their games. Their is a reason a Forza game didn't release last year.  Bleeding edge just released as a passion project from a small team and so will Grounded from Obsidian. MS has been very open about not rushing their games out and giving more development freedom. 

Giving devs more time is not creative freedom or a brake. The forza halo gears teams must have nightmares dreaming of doing the same thing monotuously. Its always the same game for them. Bleeding edge and grounded where both in development before MS bought them. But as soon as MS acquired ninja theory guess what, more hellblade. A new caged hamster on a wheal. 

343I was made to make Halo games. If someone is working there it's because they want to work on Halo. Halo has such a vast universe, there is so much they can explore. Playground is not only working on forza horizon games, but also a new RPG. Turn 10 was made to make racing games. Ninja Theory is working on Hellblade 2 and Project Mara because that is what they want to work on. Ninja Theory and all the other developers MS acquired have been very open about the creative freedom MS is giving them. 



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smroadkill15 on 14 May 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:

I went into this with my previous response to Shikamaru. I wasn't talking about Playground, Obsidian, or Ninja Theory, with the post you quoted. At least not in regards to them being unproven studios.

Doublefine's last critically acclaimed game was Brutal Legend in 2009. No, we aren't counting remasters here. Before that it was Psychonauts in 2005.

I really think you ought to look at InXile's previous games. They've made more mediocre to bad games than they've made good games. I'd call them a coin flip of a developer. Take any game they release, and flip a coin. That's the odds that it'll be a critically acclaimed game.

Double fine's last big budget game was Brutal Legends, but they've released plenty of great games since then like Rad, Knights and Bikes, broken Age, Massive Chalice, stacking, Costume quest, and others. Psychonauts 2 is releasing this year and it looks great!

InXile is in the same boat. Most of their games turn out good like Bards Tale series, Wasteland 1/2, Torment, and some others. Unfortunately they've had the same issue as Double Fine when it comes to financial backing, so they have had to rely on kickstarters and make IOS games to stay afloat. Now they are secure and can work on games they want to. Wasteland 3 is looking excellent with the extra development time and financial backing.  

Last edited by smroadkill15 - on 14 May 2020

DonFerrari on 14 May 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure there will be a difference in quality, but same as on the smart delivery they may just push a patch to TLOU2 instead of making an exclusive disc for it. TLOU moved HW and sold a lot as a port a year later and already months into the gen, so if Sony pushed for a TLOU2 enhanced for launch it would also push some HW.

I know people will buy new HW to play crossgen because the want the best performance and long term they need to upgrade anyway. But the claim that it will sell more by being in more platforms don't help the argument that it will push new HW.

That’s fair, though the odds of that are small. Sony is very traditional, I’d expect a box re release next year. But hey, who knows. Wonder what game they got to headline the launch. 

As for Halo, I think it can do both. Appeal to the people willing to upgrade and sell to those who never had the intention to do so. So many possibilities of what could happen :)

Edit: forgot there’s a high chance they will make a limited bundle for Series X only. Wonder how many of those will be made. It’s literally the only thing making me upgrade day 1 instead of sticking with my Xbox X

Yes I wouldn't call it unexpected of Sony to make a new package and say TLOU2 for PS5 putting the patch inside it that wouldn't run on PS4 and call a day =p

Sure Halo can both sell good on the older platform and also push some sales as launch title, I just think it is a little impact for the new HW being a crossgen because if the person just want to play Halo he can on his HW, the Halo for XSX would need to look and play much better than the one in Xbox One to be effective in pushing the new HW. We will see it. I hope it works well for MS.

smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I went into this with my previous response to Shikamaru. I wasn't talking about Playground, Obsidian, or Ninja Theory, with the post you quoted. At least not in regards to them being unproven studios.

Doublefine's last critically acclaimed game was Brutal Legend in 2009. No, we aren't counting remasters here. Before that it was Psychonauts in 2005.

I really think you ought to look at InXile's previous games. They've made more mediocre to bad games than they've made good games. I'd call them a coin flip of a developer. Take any game they release, and flip a coin. That's the odds that it'll be a critically acclaimed game.

Double fine's last big budget game was Brutal Legends, but they've released plenty of great games since then like Rad, Knights and Bikes, broken Age, Massive Chalice, stacking, Costume quest, and others. Psychonauts 2 is releasing this year and it looks great!

InXile is in the same boat. Most of their games turn on good like Bards Tale series, Wasteland 1/2, Torment, and some others. Unfortunately they've had the same issue as Double Fine when it comes to financial backing, so they have had to rely on kickstarters and make IOS games to stay afloat. Now they are secure and can work on games they want to. Wasteland 3 is looking excellent with the extra development time and financial backing.  

From the games you have listed I wouldn't expect much really from these devs.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Cerebralbore101 on 14 May 2020
smroadkill15 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I went into this with my previous response to Shikamaru. I wasn't talking about Playground, Obsidian, or Ninja Theory, with the post you quoted. At least not in regards to them being unproven studios.

Doublefine's last critically acclaimed game was Brutal Legend in 2009. No, we aren't counting remasters here. Before that it was Psychonauts in 2005.

I really think you ought to look at InXile's previous games. They've made more mediocre to bad games than they've made good games. I'd call them a coin flip of a developer. Take any game they release, and flip a coin. That's the odds that it'll be a critically acclaimed game.

Double fine's last big budget game was Brutal Legends, but they've released plenty of great games since then like Rad, Knights and Bikes, broken Age, Massive Chalice, stacking, Costume quest, and others. Psychonauts 2 is releasing this year and it looks great!

InXile is in the same boat. Most of their games turn on good like Bards Tale series, Wasteland 1/2, Torment, and some others. Unfortunately they've had the same issue as Double Fine when it comes to financial backing, so they have had to rely on kickstarters and make IOS games to stay afloat. Now they are secure and can work on games they want to. Wasteland 3 is looking excellent with the extra development time and financial backing.  

Wait so InXile and Doublefine would make fantastic games if only they had the funding? There's heaps of critically acclaimed small budget Indies every year, proving that you don't need a AAA or AA budget to make a great game. Some of the best Indie games are one person affairs like Stardew Valley, or Undertale. 



Cerebralbore101 on 14 May 2020
RolStoppable said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Non-exclusivity is definitely a stupid thing. I think Sony will eventually have all their games coming to PC three years from each game's PS5 launch. So if we get GoW2 in 2021, then it comes to PC in 2024. Horizon 2 in 2022, goes to PC in 2025, and so on, and so forth. But that will take some time for them to implement, and for consumers to figure out. That also goes against your idea that exclusives just plain don't matter. As far as Sony wanting to make PSN more like Gamepass, though that's a good thing. Gamepass doesn't really have the numbers to back up the idea that it's a killer-app, but that doesn't mean that Sony shouldn't copy it.

It's more likely that PS5 games will eventually have simultaneous launches on PC, just like you should expect PS Now to match Microsoft's day and date releases for Game Pass eventually. Sony is bound to provide more clarity on these two points once they present their full strategy for the PS5. I doubt that Sony will stick with the current status quo, because the two logical options for them were either to do their own thing and keep their first party games on the PS5 or try to match what Microsoft offers. Any inbetween thing comes across as directionless.

I never said that exclusives don't matter. If you recall my post, I said something along the lines of if exclusives didn't matter, then I wouldn't bother to put them on the list of importance at all.

Well that's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one. Do countries need to either be Laissez faire capitalism, or full blown Communism? Does somebody need to either be a full blown born again Christian, or a Dawkins Level Atheist? 

All Sony needs to do is match the 3rd party library of Gamepass on PSN, and allow for game downloading, running off local hardware. 

Okay, then you think exclusives matter, but not by much. I think Wii U would have had sales similar to 3DO or Jaguar without Nintendo's exclusives. 



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sales2099 on 14 May 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
smroadkill15 said:

Double fine's last big budget game was Brutal Legends, but they've released plenty of great games since then like Rad, Knights and Bikes, broken Age, Massive Chalice, stacking, Costume quest, and others. Psychonauts 2 is releasing this year and it looks great!

InXile is in the same boat. Most of their games turn on good like Bards Tale series, Wasteland 1/2, Torment, and some others. Unfortunately they've had the same issue as Double Fine when it comes to financial backing, so they have had to rely on kickstarters and make IOS games to stay afloat. Now they are secure and can work on games they want to. Wasteland 3 is looking excellent with the extra development time and financial backing.  

Wait so InXile and Doublefine would make fantastic games if only they had the funding? There's heaps of critically acclaimed small budget Indies every year, proving that you don't need a AAA or AA budget to make a great game. Some of the best Indie games are one person affairs like Stardew Valley, or Undertale. 

Well that goes into double standard territory. Not you, but I see lots of fans on the other side heavily implying only AAA games matter. That A-AA games just aren’t worth their time. Xbox gamers are fine with this, Ori for example is a fantastic game, but ultimately they are shit talked for “not being system sellers” or not on the same level as games they are used to. To tie into the thread people can and will argue small exclusives for Xbox won’t move the sales pendulum their way. 

Im all for a healthy mix: 2 AAA games every year with A-AA to space out the rest. Can’t wait to see those two studios make games without having to worry too much about budgets. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Cerebralbore101 on 14 May 2020
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Wait so InXile and Doublefine would make fantastic games if only they had the funding? There's heaps of critically acclaimed small budget Indies every year, proving that you don't need a AAA or AA budget to make a great game. Some of the best Indie games are one person affairs like Stardew Valley, or Undertale. 

Well that goes into double standard territory. Not you, but I see lots of fans on the other side heavily implying only AAA games matter. That A-AA games just aren’t worth their time. Xbox gamers are fine with this, Ori for example is a fantastic game, but ultimately they are shit talked for “not being system sellers” or not on the same level as games they are used to. To tie into the thread people can and will argue small exclusives for Xbox won’t move the sales pendulum their way. 

Im all for a healthy mix: 2 AAA games every year with A-AA to space out the rest. Can’t wait to see those two studios make games without having to worry too much about budgets. 

Well, I have in the past, said that Cuphead and Ori "didn't count". But not because I thought Indies didn't count. I love and celebrate Indies. I've probably bought more Indies in the last 2 years than I have full blown AAA titles. My criticism towards Cuphead and Ori "not counting" had more to do with the fact that any potatoe PC would be able to run those games. I mean, can you imagine the following conversation? 

"I'm going to buy a XB1!"

Why? 

"So I can play Cuphead, and Ori of course!"

But your 2009 non-gaming laptop can play those games perfectly. Why spend $300 to play a game that you can already play? 



Cerebralbore101 on 14 May 2020
RolStoppable said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Well that's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one. Do countries need to either be Laissez faire capitalism, or full blown Communism? Does somebody need to either be a full blown born again Christian, or a Dawkins Level Atheist? 

All Sony needs to do is match the 3rd party library of Gamepass on PSN, and allow for game downloading, running off local hardware. 

Okay, then you think exclusives matter, but not by much. I think Wii U would have had sales similar to 3DO or Jaguar without Nintendo's exclusives. 

Looks like you don't know what a false dichotomy is. I mentioned the two logical options, but that doesn't mean that only those two options are available because I acknowledged alternatives. You can call the other options directionless, half-baked, not thought through, whatever. Giving up PS5 exclusivity while not coming close to matching Microsoft's offer is rather pointless, because then you might as well keep exclusivity. Horizon: Zero Dawn is the first of more to come. It's a recent change in strategy, because simultaneous development for PS and PC wasn't a thing when Layden was the boss. Newer games won't take three years to arrive on the PC, at least that's what I expect. Heck, there's the actual example of the Sony-funded Death Stranding that will be on PC in a year or less after its PS4 release.

I mentioned it in a previous post that Sony and Nintendo aren't comparable when it comes to the importance of exclusive games. Saying how it is for Nintendo has no bearing on how it would play out for Sony, so all we would get are moot points. Likewise, the situation of Nintendo isn't applicable to Microsoft either.

Yes, well an economist can acknowledge alternatives like Democratic Socialism, or a mixed economy, while still claiming that the only logical way forward is either untethered capitalism, or emulating North Korea. Said economist would still be presenting a false dichotomy. 

Okay, I'll take the exclusives matter for Nintendo, but not Sony stance. I disagree with it, but it's consistent with what you've said before, which is the important part. 



sales2099 on 14 May 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:

Well that goes into double standard territory. Not you, but I see lots of fans on the other side heavily implying only AAA games matter. That A-AA games just aren’t worth their time. Xbox gamers are fine with this, Ori for example is a fantastic game, but ultimately they are shit talked for “not being system sellers” or not on the same level as games they are used to. To tie into the thread people can and will argue small exclusives for Xbox won’t move the sales pendulum their way. 

Im all for a healthy mix: 2 AAA games every year with A-AA to space out the rest. Can’t wait to see those two studios make games without having to worry too much about budgets. 

Well, I have in the past, said that Cuphead and Ori "didn't count". But not because I thought Indies didn't count. I love and celebrate Indies. I've probably bought more Indies in the last 2 years than I have full blown AAA titles. My criticism towards Cuphead and Ori "not counting" had more to do with the fact that any potatoe PC would be able to run those games. I mean, can you imagine the following conversation? 

"I'm going to buy a XB1!"

Why? 

"So I can play Cuphead, and Ori of course!"

But your 2009 non-gaming laptop can play those games perfectly. Why spend $300 to play a game that you can already play? 

Fair enough, but being a console gamer and PC gamer are two different things. If both options are on the table then I see your point. But if it’s just between Xbox and PS I see no reason to not count them. That said you definitely need more then small games to move systems, so guess we’ll see in July what’s cooking. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

smroadkill15 on 14 May 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
smroadkill15 said:

Double fine's last big budget game was Brutal Legends, but they've released plenty of great games since then like Rad, Knights and Bikes, broken Age, Massive Chalice, stacking, Costume quest, and others. Psychonauts 2 is releasing this year and it looks great!

InXile is in the same boat. Most of their games turn on good like Bards Tale series, Wasteland 1/2, Torment, and some others. Unfortunately they've had the same issue as Double Fine when it comes to financial backing, so they have had to rely on kickstarters and make IOS games to stay afloat. Now they are secure and can work on games they want to. Wasteland 3 is looking excellent with the extra development time and financial backing.  

Wait so InXile and Doublefine would make fantastic games if only they had the funding? There's heaps of critically acclaimed small budget Indies every year, proving that you don't need a AAA or AA budget to make a great game. Some of the best Indie games are one person affairs like Stardew Valley, or Undertale. 

InXile and Double fine have made great games before with a smaller budget. There is a really both studios have been around for as long as they have. Now they can continue and expand on that without having to worry about funding.