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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

Even though it would be appalling to endorse that kind of behavior, I'm kind of hoping they keep it up so that it just drives the centrist-moderates and slight leaning Republicans away and causes more fraction within the GOP. Especially if Trump tries to run again in 2024, which we all know he will, then he's setting himself up to do even worse than this year so long as the Democrats put up a good candidate. 



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curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

It's a cult. That's the way cults work. 

When one of these doomsday cults predicts the world is going to end and it doesn't, the believers never say "oh I guess we were wrong, back to sanity". They just make some bullshit rationalization and move on to the next prophecy. If they were rational and believed in evidence, then they wouldn't be in the cult.

Man, you're not kidding, some of the stuff the hardcore MAGA folks are posting online is absolutely cult material, worshipping Trump as a literally Christ-like figure and calling for civil war, dictatorship, mass executions of the "left", etc. Genuinely frightening stuff.

I'm working on a note for my law journal that deals with conspiracy theories... Among the interesting things I learned is that, at least as of 2012, the people most likely to believe in conspiracy theories were the least likely to be politically engaged and vote.

This explains a big part of Trump's success. That's the part of the right wing he catered to whereas McCain and Romney rejected it. He told them yes the government is evil and out to get you, (drain the swamp) liberals are indeed evil and out to destroy the world, and the media is lying to you about everything. He's also somehow managed to convince people that Democrats are both hardcore communists and pawns of big business... which I dunno how that one works. Combine this with the radical Christian base the party had been courting since Reagan, and this is really not a surprise.

What is a surprise to me is how much the rest of the party is just willing to look the other way. I know plenty of people who are generally sensible, but are passionate about gun rights, lower taxes, abortion, or whatever. I disagree with their views, but they're not like insane. And I figured that at a certain point they'd realize Trump is just too extreme and they'd have to vote against him whether that meant putting the rest of their agenda on hold for four months. But... nope... even as he's literally trying to end American democracy they're not willing to leave. 



PAOerfulone said:

Even though it would be appalling to endorse that kind of behavior, I'm kind of hoping they keep it up so that it just drives the centrist-moderates and slight leaning Republicans away and causes more fraction within the GOP. Especially if Trump tries to run again in 2024, which we all know he will, then he's setting himself up to do even worse than this year so long as the Democrats put up a good candidate. 

I wish I could still hold this much faith in humanity, but if the last two elections have taught me anything, it is that the bar can always be lowered.



Newsflash.......ABC News reported tonight that Donald Trump is considering imposing Martial Law in the US to allow the US Military to conduct an election recount.

Haha. That would be awesome. Bring it on. I wanna see Martial Law imposed in the US. My gun is cocked and loaded.



Nighthawk117 said:

Newsflash.......ABC News reported tonight that Donald Trump is considering imposing Martial Law in the US to allow the US Military to conduct an election recount.

Haha. That would be awesome. Bring it on. I wanna see Martial Law imposed in the US. My gun is cocked and loaded.



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Nighthawk117 said:

Newsflash.......ABC News reported tonight that Donald Trump is considering imposing Martial Law in the US to allow the US Military to conduct an election recount.

Does he have the power to do that? Cos that's kinda terrifying.



curl-6 said:
Nighthawk117 said:

Newsflash.......ABC News reported tonight that Donald Trump is considering imposing Martial Law in the US to allow the US Military to conduct an election recount.

Does he have the power to do that? Cos that's kinda terrifying.

Well, he won't reply, so I will. And, basically no. 

Here is the text of the Insurrection Act which would be the basis of that power.

"Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion."

I'm not sure how on Earth you'd get from there to actually implementing martial law. They can allege that states did not follow proper voting procedures, but that's not a matter of Federal law, it's state law. And, judicial proceedings were available. The courts are responsible for interpreting the law, and they've already been pretty clear on the matter. Also, it's not clear that there is any obstruction, combination, assemblage, or rebellion against authority. What those are is not crystal clear, but it's clear that it has to be some group of people.

Part of the act also says "Whenever the President considers it necessary to use the militia or the armed forces under this chapter, he shall, by proclamation, immediately order the insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably to their abodes within a limited time."

So, it's clear that the power is limited to dispersing a group of people and that martial law in no way allows the President to redo an election.

There's more on it here https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-2/clause-1/martial-law-and-constitutional-limitations but to sum it up, there is no way Trump could legally do that, if he wanted to, which has not been proven (though I wouldn't put it past him).

Of course, in theory, anyone can declare martial law. If Kanye West wanted to declare he actually won the election and invoke martial law right now, he could try... and if the military listens, they listen. They have the guns, so if they really want to take control, there isn't a whole lot that can be done to stop them. But, I'd say the military listening to Kanye is only slightly less realistic then them reholding an election. 



EricHiggin said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Since when?

Seriously, the last US President who could fit that bill would have been FDR. Both Trump and Biden are living proofs that the bolded part of what you said isn't true.

Also, just look who Germany put on top when things went terribly bad in their country during the great depression...

Ka-pi96 said:

History would suggest that's actually when you put the very worst at the top.

"The Great War" was 'great' until it wasn't, because of an even greater unforeseen war. Now they're known as the World Wars. What's important is the difference between them and what made one worse (or 'greater') than the other, without disregarding the distant past beyond them and how it compares.

Again, the point being, we've just been in the degrading portion for quite a while now, so the cycle isn't evident from experience.

It's still known as the great war in most of Western Europe. It mostly just started to become known as World War One in those regions due to the US Film Industry and Pop Culture Osmosis.

About the bolded part, you make no sense here, or at least I can't understand what you want to tell us with that. Care to explain in more detail?



JWeinCom said:
Machiavellian said:

The problem is that you are way to rational in thinking about this whole thing. Rational thinking is not on the menu.  Also you have Ted Cruz and Graham who would be willing to throw this situation into conflict.  The thing is they see it as solidifying their careers.  Trump will be playing this game for at least another 4 years and these 2 want those base voters for when he ultimately decides after 4 years and probably a billion dollar payday that he will not run.  Ted Cruz definitely has his eyes set to run in 2024 so trying to appear he is concerned and cares about Trump is how he is making his move.  The thing is, its not about whether they can get Trump reelected because that really isn't the aim, the aim is to keep his base engaged and angry so that in 2024, one of these fools can step into his place. I really see this as a move for Ted Cruz and you can believe he feels this is his time.  74 million votes is still a lot of people and I am sure Ted believes he can keep that motivation going with someone more political savvy then Trump.  Trust me, these people hate Trump to the center of their soul but they probably believe they can still ride on his coattails.

Ted Cruz and Graham are rational thinking... Their rationality is based on doing what they feel is best for them in the long run, so they will embrace obvious irrationality from Trump (or whoever else) if it gets them there. Being Trumps bestie might help them, but not if Trump's base splits off even more from the GOP. 

Trump's base is only useful if it's part of the GOP. There's a reason that the GOP did so much better in house and senate races than Trump did on the national level. Forcing a further split by getting the GOP to either vote against Trump or embrace him hardcore is not in their best interest. 

Revisting this topic again, we have a Rep, Mr Madison Cawthorn from NC who is stating he will contest the EC on Jan 6th.  Now, you can believe he will get at least one more Rep to go along for he Ride so the question is, which Senator will also come to the party.  I am telling you this theater is not over yet.  Now of course if Mr. Cawthorn does not send in his objections in writing to both house and Senate then it really is just theater but you get my drift on this.  People are lining up to play the game for public opinion and they believe that Trump is the golden ticket.  It doesn't mean its smart or even good political strategy, but its definitely something that will happen.



Ka-pi96 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

It's still known as the great war in most of Western Europe. It mostly just started to become known as World War One in those regions due to the US Film Industry and Pop Culture Osmosis.

About the bolded part, you make no sense here, or at least I can't understand what you want to tell us with that. Care to explain in more detail?

I'd also argue there's some pro-French and anti-German bias involved there. Otherwise it'd be known as World War Two, with Napoleon being responsible for World War One.

You're just looking at short very specific points in time (which were bad), and assuming that breaks the cycle or automatically restarts it. A natural cycle is like the seasons, which don't go perfectly linearly from hot to cold, then cold back to hot. It's up and down and can vary greatly in short bursts in between.

Now while this cycle may not seem natural as it's man who the cycle pertains too, it is natural. Like with animal pop. As one pop grows, it's corrected by it's predators, then their predators, and so on, until there are too many top predators, then they correct themselves from too much competition. 

When things get really bad, which usually takes a while for people to smarten up and come together, they put the best in charge for a while. Once things are great again, people start to get careless and greedy. This allows for mediocre people to be put in charge, which eventually leads to things falling apart again.

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times." G.M. Hopf

This quote is a more general explanation of the cycle.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.