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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Which will prevail? Xbox Power or Playstation Speed?

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XBOX 27 31.03%
 
PLAYSTATION 50 57.47%
 
Master Race 10 11.49%
 
Total:87
DonFerrari on 23 March 2020
BraLoD said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

People forget the XSX has a SSD too. And all sorts of other technology MS engineered to make game development better. This SSD crap is worse than any eSRAM or cloud crap I heard about Xbone 😆

Of course the main thing people mess up on is they forget the power in PS5 is variable, so it’s not always a 2TF difference. Like we’ve been saying, all this SSD secret sauce will do for PS5 over XSX is make games load a few seconds faster.

Nah, you know very well how that crap was all over the place, that's when secret sauce got back into the spotlight, specially with TEH CLOUD, which was a lie.

Also nah, it won't just make games load a few seconds faster, even before the reveal the talk was all about how SSDs will change game development from now on.

Also, coming from the guy that believed Titanfall would change the tides from the XBO sales over the PS4, called Gran Turismo niche, said Uncharted 4 animations were wonky, pretended Quantum Break was perfect and calls Phil Spencer "Papa Phil"... well, not much to add to that.

He isn't saying SSD will only make games load a little faster (although some people say that). What he is saying is that the difference between PS5 SSD and XSX SSD (since XSX is already great on it) would mean just faster load times on multiplats and we would need to see what first party would do with the faster SSD.

And that is true. While going from 50Mb/s to 2500Mb/s is a massive improvement the incremental 2500 to 5000 isn't that big so the revolutionary aspects would already be possible on XSX.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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LudicrousSpeed on 23 March 2020
BraLoD said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

People forget the XSX has a SSD too. And all sorts of other technology MS engineered to make game development better. This SSD crap is worse than any eSRAM or cloud crap I heard about Xbone 😆

Of course the main thing people mess up on is they forget the power in PS5 is variable, so it’s not always a 2TF difference. Like we’ve been saying, all this SSD secret sauce will do for PS5 over XSX is make games load a few seconds faster.

Nah, you know very well how that crap was all over the place, that's when secret sauce got back into the spotlight, specially with TEH CLOUD, which was a lie.

Also nah, it won't just make games load a few seconds faster, even before the reveal the talk was all about how SSDs will change game development from now on.

Also, coming from the guy that believed Titanfall would change the tides from the XBO sales over the PS4, called Gran Turismo niche, said Uncharted 4 animations were wonky, pretended Quantum Break was perfect and calls Phil Spencer "Papa Phil"... well, not much to add to that.

Yikes, what a cringe response. I’d expect any shift in game design to also happen on XSX since it also has a SSD. Which leaves the only real advantage of the PS5 SSD to be... very small boosts in load time over XSX. I know you’re dreaming of this gaming world where the PS5 SSD makes the difference in the machines and leads to a revolution in game design but it’s not happening.

When the fuck did I say Titanfall would turn some tide in sales wars LOL. I also don’t remember calling GT niche or QB perfect, but I easily could have done both given context. And yeah I did say some of the animations in an Uncharted video looked wonky. Hey guess what, ND posted a video of Ellie climbing some snow covered vehicle recently. Guess how that animation looked? Wonky. Guess how the snow deformation looked? Wonky as fuck. But you keep going ad hominem on some nonsense 



Pemalite on 23 March 2020
BraLoD said:

Blast Processing is a myth, it doesn't exist and was a marketing stunt, even if the Mega Drive was indeed faster.

Blast Processing was actually real, it is what happens when the marketing team gets a-hold of a technical specification and runs with it.

Essentially Blast Processing was actually the DMA unit in the VDP graphics processor which expedited memory transfers... It was actually an underutilized feature, but it was there.

sales2099 said:
The more I go outside Vgchartz and see what the internet thinks of the specs between the two....the more I’m convinced multiplats will have a resolution and or FPS disparity between PS5/series x.

The sentiment is that the ssd overall can’t compensate for a weaker cpu and GPU. Too many factors favor the series x for the ssd to make up the gap. And the series x also has a ssd...I mean the only way I can believe the ssd clinging is if Xbox didn’t have one.

Storage subsystems are never going to compensate for a weaker CPU or GPU... Storage generally doesn't do any processing to aid those scenarios.

What a fast storage system can do is compensate for RAM constrained environments.

The Xbox Series X has the technical edge, that cannot be disputed, by how much? We need to wait for the games to see the real-world implications, for simpler games (Platformers etc'), ports from older systems (Xbox One, Playstation 4) the experience will absolutely be identical.

src said:

People need to understand: the entire gaming pipeline is loading data. Everything you see on screen is calculated by your GPU/CPU which loads data from memory.

There are two bottlenecks: how quickly you can load the data and how much you can calculate.

PS5's SSD is a 200% increase over XSX. 

Cerny explained it best. Usually a game loads data from the CD/HDD onto the RAM. Because this loading takes lets say 10 seconds, the game needs have all the data for the next 10 seconds of gameplay on the RAM so you can have stuff coming on the screen while the next batch of data is being loaded onto RAM. With faster SSD, the same amount of RAM can have fewer seconds of gameplay: 8GB of RAM can be used to store 5 seconds of data instead of 10 seconds. This means each second of gameplay can have more data in it, aka more fidelity (such as more animation, larger levels, AI, etc).

It's impossible to say how much the SSD difference means because it's so specific to each game and how it's coded. 

Keep that optimism going.

src said:

Its true, SSD allows a faster data stream into RAM but its the GPU crunching that produces the frames per second. However whats also true is that the CPU/GPU differences are much much smaller than PS4 and XB1. Furthermore there are architectural differences that are still not fully detailed (different compression techniques, additional cores for certain tasks like audio) that could change things.

In summary the FPS and resolution difference should be small. Meanwhile the SSD speed advantage the PS5 is massive. Will the gameplay designs be noticeably different? We will have to wait to see the games.

We don't know every aspect of the GPU yet, the differences could be larger than the current specifications entail.

Ray Tracing is the next-gen buzzword feature, the SSD helps... But the SSD isn't doing all the processing to showcase the pretty pictures on your display... And the Xbox Series X will potentially have additional functional units to possibly handle Ray Tracing better.

chakkra said:

For the life of me I do not understand how Mark Cerny managed to convince people of this BS when we have decades of graphics cards comparisons that prove quite the opposite.

Bigger GPUs with more CUs have ALWAYS performed better than smaller GPUs with higher Clock speeds. ALWAYS.

Not true. Vega 7 has 60 CU's vs Vega 64's, 64 CU's. Vega 7 is significantly faster due to it's bandwidth and clockrate advantages.

DonFerrari said:

Digital Foundry didn't disagree on Mark Cerny.

Also what reason would Sony have to choose less CUs with higher frequency (and much higher than what could be expected, and one that makes dies harder to make and cooling also harder to achieve)? Just for the giggles? I hope you don't come with a they decided to put the boost last week because of Xbox being much stronger or "because they are dumb".

Sony made the best decision for Sony and hitting their goals.

There are two ways to bolstering GPU performance... More functional units or higher clockrates. (If all else is kept equal of course!)

Both have their Pro's and Con's... And contrary to popular belief a smaller chip with higher clockrates isn't always cheaper to manufacture... If a process suffers from terrible power characteristics and the chip is extremely leaky, then yields can be lower than a larger chip.

In short, it's a balancing act... And Sony made the right choice for Sony... And instead put more engineering into the storage subsystems.

Both consoles will be fantastic pieces of kit.

chakkra said:

And there was one particular comment they did that people either missed or chose to ignore: " It's a fascinating idea - and entirely at odds with Microsoft's design decisions for Xbox Series X - and what this likely means is that developers will need to be mindful of potential power consumption spikes that could impact clocks and lower performance."

Microsoft has already confirmed that the Xbox Series X can maintain it's clockrates without throttling in it's reveal.

Which is in stark contrast to Sony as it is relying on mobile technology to share thermal/power.

Drakrami said:

So 6 vs 4.2 Tflops didn't make a difference this gen. What makes you think 12 vs 10 Tflops will make any difference next gen? Most of us throwing around the term Tflop don't even understand half of what the term means. 

There was a massive difference. Just not all developers decided to leverage the differences to the fullest extent... And many differences weren't even down to the computational capabilities... But in part thanks to the increased CPU and RAM capabilities.

Kyuu said:

The general prediction from PS fans was and still is that XSX would be the more capable platform for obvious reasons. But those few unusual and unexpected advantages may play their role. There also seems to be a few missing factors Sony may announce/explain that might reduce that gap further and maybe even give PS5 the upper hand if fully harnessed by 1st party studios. It'll be like X360 vs PS3 in a sense.

It will be nothing like the Xbox 360 vs Playstation 3 scenario.
The Playstation 3 had a multitude of technological advantages, not just one.

BraLoD said:

The Switch success is based on games.

They launched the system with one of the most praised games ever and withing that same year they got another big app killer.

Do you know why the PS4 sold so well at launch?

The Last of Us.

And it wasn't even available there at launch!

<SNIP>

Any consoles success isn't based on a singular aspect, that is a 2 dimensional way of looking at things.

The Switch was successful because it was portable, introduced new novel concepts and had amazing games... Even if it's best games are WiiU titles... All at the right price.

The Playstation 4 was successful because it was cheaper and more powerful and had amazing games.








--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

chakkra on 23 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
chakkra said:

"Digital Foundry didn't disagree on Mark Cerny."

They didn't outright agree with him either. And they even said "We will have to wait to see how this translates into real world scenarios"
Besides, even if they had agreed with them, we have already seen these scenerarios MULTIPLE times. In every single Graphics Card generation before. Did you take the time to look at the chart above?

And there was one particular comment they did that people either missed or chose to ignore: " It's a fascinating idea - and entirely at odds with Microsoft's design decisions for Xbox Series X - and what this likely means is that developers will need to be mindful of potential power consumption spikes that could impact clocks and lower performance."

"Also what reason would Sony have to choose less CUs with higher frequency (and much higher than what could be expected, and one that makes dies harder to make and cooling also harder to achieve)? Just for the giggles?"

Errr... because at the moment of designing the console they did not know how many CUs and what Clock speed MS was going to use? You know that they dont meet in the same room to design these things, right?

At the moment of the design they choose less CUs with higher clock speeds. That have nothing to do with MS. So please explain that if it is impossible to get better result by higher frequency lesser CU count why would they choose these instead of more CUs and lower frequency?

Errr... MS and Sony's decisions are ALWAYS influenced by what the other does or might do. Even if they publicly deny it, I will never believe otherwise. BUT, like I said before, at the moment of designing the console neither of them knew how many CUs and clock the other was going to use, so they both had to make a decision and shoot in the dark, and hope for the best.

Also you are forgetting another VERY important aspect of the decision making process, price. Companies design their products around a certain price point they are trying to meet. If you are planning to sell your device at $399-449 then you have to choose the parts that fit into that price range. Same if you are planning to sell it at $499-549.

Now, we don't really know what price points both MS and Sony were trying to hit but we do have MS on record saying that they were not going to make the same mistake of releasing a weaker console, so at least we know their INTENTION was to shoot as high as possible when it comes to performance. On the other hand, we also have Sony on record saying that they were planning to make PS5 "affordable" so I think is fair to assume that pricing influenced their final decision.



EricHiggin on 23 March 2020
Soundwave said:

lol at this

I get what they're trying to show here, but it's a pretty poor vid to use. Some of the gaming media is doing a poor job all around, and has been for quite a while when it comes to specs and how they relate to the games.

If PS5 was actually PS4 in the vid, based on the kid and their condition in comparison, it would make more sense in terms of specs and the tackle.

The worst part, is the giant crushing the kid who needs a heart transplant, and being thrilled about it. That's something to be proud of alright...... absolutely crushing PS4 specs...

Again, I get it, just think it was poorly executed, and a fairly poor comparison altogether. Could've been better portrayed and actually felt more legit.



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KratosLives on 24 March 2020

Both systems have failed to show anything really meaningful , besides the expected better fps,4k, some ray tracing and better load times. Shame no tech demo showcasing the future of gaming, true next gen experiences that change the way games are experienced. So far it's current gen times 1.2



LudicrousSpeed on 24 March 2020
BraLoD said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Yikes, what a cringe response. I’d expect any shift in game design to also happen on XSX since it also has a SSD. Which leaves the only real advantage of the PS5 SSD to be... very small boosts in load time over XSX. I know you’re dreaming of this gaming world where the PS5 SSD makes the difference in the machines and leads to a revolution in game design but it’s not happening.

When the fuck did I say Titanfall would turn some tide in sales wars LOL. I also don’t remember calling GT niche or QB perfect, but I easily could have done both given context. And yeah I did say some of the animations in an Uncharted video looked wonky. Hey guess what, ND posted a video of Ellie climbing some snow covered vehicle recently. Guess how that animation looked? Wonky. Guess how the snow deformation looked? Wonky as fuck. But you keep going ad hominem on some nonsense 

I'm not dreaming about anything, pal, you are free to point to me where am I doing it.

lol, there you go again. TLoU2 animations are wonky too.

That's the kind of pointing you don't do when its a MS exclusive, like Quantum Break.

You can find some of the best animations in the industry wonky for some reason, but you can't criticize anything from an actually quite flawed game if its in the green box.

Of course you don't remember what you say, there is no substance behind it, you say whatever you need to say to paint PS bad and XB good. Always. All the time. And you know it, it's your game.

But its ok, you'll have your XSX specs list to cling to when TLoU2 releases, everything is fine now.

Yes, I just said one animation and special effect in LoU2 looked wonky. No, that doesn’t mean I’m saying “LoU2 has wonky animations”. For all we know the rest are perfect. Hope that helps. Can’t imagine being so torn up over an opinion. 

I don’t remember saying any of that because I didn’t say them. Seeing how you exaggerate things here with the LoU2 comment, I think I can safely say you’re just full of shit. Also, I can cling to a copy of LoU2 if I want to buy it ;)

Sorry your thread didn’t turn out how you wanted and you want to derail with nonsense LOL 



DraconianAC on 24 March 2020
BraLoD said:
AsGryffynn said:

OTOH, if Lockhart is true, then they win. There's a reason Portables sell better 8 times out of 10. The Switch sold as it did because it could be both. 

The Switch success is based on games.

They launched the system with one of the most praised games ever and withing that same year they got another big app killer.

Do you know why the PS4 sold so well at launch?

The Last of Us.

And it wasn't even available there at launch!

TLoU was so good the whole Playstation brand elevated because of it.

The Last of Us was everywhere so Playstation was everywhere.

XBO horrible messaging aside, which helped a lot of dubious buyers for sure, it was that one game, that one piece of software was so impactful the PS4 was already locked for greatness.

Funny notion, but games sell gaming systems!

And do you know which game is coming right before the PS5... its sequel.

After TLoU2 the PS5 will be a nobrainer.

After we spend months talking about it, the new system launch.

There is no better buzzword for selling a gaming brand than great games.

https://youtu.be/FJdwQmpGs2E

It's an informative video, you should watch, about whats is currently happening in Naughty Dog, so you wont be surprised if game does not live up to the hype.



KratosLives on 24 March 2020
DraconianAC said:
BraLoD said:

The Switch success is based on games.

They launched the system with one of the most praised games ever and withing that same year they got another big app killer.

Do you know why the PS4 sold so well at launch?

The Last of Us.

And it wasn't even available there at launch!

TLoU was so good the whole Playstation brand elevated because of it.

The Last of Us was everywhere so Playstation was everywhere.

XBO horrible messaging aside, which helped a lot of dubious buyers for sure, it was that one game, that one piece of software was so impactful the PS4 was already locked for greatness.

Funny notion, but games sell gaming systems!

And do you know which game is coming right before the PS5... its sequel.

After TLoU2 the PS5 will be a nobrainer.

After we spend months talking about it, the new system launch.

There is no better buzzword for selling a gaming brand than great games.

https://youtu.be/FJdwQmpGs2E

It's an informative video, you should watch, about whats is currently happening in Naughty Dog, so you wont be surprised if game does not live up to the hype.

I'm sure it will win accolades. Rdr2 had a bad crunch aswell.



Angelus on 24 March 2020
KratosLives said:
Both systems have failed to show anything really meaningful , besides the expected better fps,4k, some ray tracing and better load times. Shame no tech demo showcasing the future of gaming, true next gen experiences that change the way games are experienced. So far it's current gen times 1.2

I seem to recall an in-engine Hellblade 2 trailer that was pretty fucking awesome.