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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Which will prevail? Xbox Power or Playstation Speed?

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BraLoD said:
sales2099 said:
The more I go outside Vgchartz and see what the internet thinks of the specs between the two....the more I’m convinced multiplats will have a resolution and or FPS disparity between PS5/series x.

The sentiment is that the ssd overall can’t compensate for a weaker cpu and GPU. Too many factors favor the series x for the ssd to make up the gap. And the series x also has a ssd...I mean the only way I can believe the ssd clinging is if Xbox didn’t have one.

What "internet" you mean?

XB focused sites? Forums full of people that don't know what they are talking about (like here)?

Nowhere in the internet people should be able to tell you the PS5 SSD will make up for its lower specs, as we simply don't know.

Now when you have people actually working with it saying it, it might be worth taking notice, but only believe it when you see it.

As of now the gap is in XSX favor and that's undisputed.

What we are doing here is wondering how much can actually be done for games on each platform.

If the PS5 SSD is such a big deal to outweight it that will be quite surprising for me, for example, as I don't understand how much it and the console being designed around it can mean for game development.

But if it does not, discussion around how much the system and games can benefit from it is still good discusion regardless.

People are too extreme, either the PS5 sucks or the PS5 SSD is a miracle technology that makes the XSX obsolete... that's not how things work.

Can't we be excited about those consoles without needing to try to prove how much it have to take away from the other?

The posts I have seem from sales regarding PS5 and XSX is that both will be great and the differences shall be smaller than PS4 vs X360 and he is just happy that this time Xbox is ahead so people won't be bad talking Xbox due to it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

My understanding is that more CU's with a slower clockrate usually beats less CU's with a higher clockrate even with equal flops, and XSX has a nearly 2 tflop advantage. On top of that, the PS5 is using boost clocks to arrive at their figures, so there will be times when it is outputting less power than advertised, if the system starts to get too hot. So yeah, XSX definitely has the technical advantage, except for PS5 having a faster SSD.

Now if we're talking sales, obviously Sony has the advantage due to a much strong worldwide presence and an already established quality 1st party. That being said, Xbox is a in a much better situation sales wise than they were this gen; they didn't botch the reveal (quite the opposite in fact), they have the specs crown with XSX (and will also have the cheapest next-gen console if Series S is real), and their 1st party for next-gen is looking way stronger than it was for XB1, thanks to multiple studio acquisitions and hiring sprees. I think that will be enough for MS to take back the US and possibly the UK, while also gaining some ground in mainland Europe and the rest of the world.

So you got your understanding wrong, yes XSX will be more powerful. But the higher clock benefits more than the higher CU count (look DF analysis), surely it won't cover the difference of CUs that large (36 vs 52 or something like that). PS5 won't have problem with temperature, it will work the same on the fridge or hot cabinet. The fluctuation on the frequency will be small percentage to up to 10% saving on power consumption, because power will be constant (as will be heat generation on the unit) so when you get near the limit on CPU it may drop the GPU a little.

Proper reveal haven't occured yet if we look at the number of people reacting and hyping to both. But yes I do expect formal reveal and 1st party games for Xbox to be much better this time around.

For the life of me I do not understand how Mark Cerny managed to convince people of this BS when we have decades of graphics cards comparisons that prove quite the opposite.

Bigger GPUs with more CUs have ALWAYS performed better than smaller GPUs with higher Clock speeds. ALWAYS.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11180/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review

Now, with that being said, after seeing the effects of SSDs on PCs I think that the much faster SSD on the PS5 will help it close the gap between them and might even outperform the XSX in some scenarios. But if it does, is going to be because of that and not because of this "smaller chips with higher clock perform better than bigger chips with lower clock speed" bs.



sales2099 said:
BraLoD said:

What "internet" you mean?

XB focused sites? Forums full of people that don't know what they are talking about (like here)?

Nowhere in the internet people should be able to tell you the PS5 SSD will make up for its lower specs, as we simply don't know.

Now when you have people actually working with it saying it, it might be worth taking notice, but only believe it when you see it.

As of now the gap is in XSX favor and that's undisputed.

What we are doing here is wondering how much can actually be done for games on each platform.

If the PS5 SSD is such a big deal to outweight it that will be quite surprising for me, for example, as I don't understand how much it and the console being designed around it can mean for game development.

But if it does not, discussion around how much the system and games can benefit from it is still good discusion regardless.

People are too extreme, either the PS5 sucks or the PS5 SSD is a miracle technology that makes the XSX obsolete... that's not how things work.

Can't we be excited about those consoles without needing to try to prove how much it have to take away from the other?

Reddit, Youtube but especially tech sites that aren’t governed by gaming bias. The ssd can load things faster but the graphics and processing  ceiling is simply lower then Series X. Im not a tech guy but that’s the general sentiment. 

You speaking a lot of sense and practicality, but unfortunately you can’t speak for the fans as a whole. It’s human nature to create rivalries among each other. More importantly you can’t expect the internet to “wait and see games in action to make an informed consensus”. We bicker and compare with whatever we have and when new news is available the narratives and arguments shift like the wind.

I think it’s unfair for PS fans to mock Xbox for literally years but when the shoe is on the other foot me and others are expected to take some kind of moral high ground? I understand the forum rules and I would never outright mock others here, but I will call out hypocrisy when I see it, as others may call me out on it. 

So also don't forget that MS fans were mocking PS fans before (on vgc) with the multiplats on Xbox 360 looking and playing much better, about PS3 having no games, Xbox being the lead on sales... and all those guys just vanished from this site or kept secluded on the nation thread. Now some are coming back for the time being =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

chakkra said:
DonFerrari said:

So you got your understanding wrong, yes XSX will be more powerful. But the higher clock benefits more than the higher CU count (look DF analysis), surely it won't cover the difference of CUs that large (36 vs 52 or something like that). PS5 won't have problem with temperature, it will work the same on the fridge or hot cabinet. The fluctuation on the frequency will be small percentage to up to 10% saving on power consumption, because power will be constant (as will be heat generation on the unit) so when you get near the limit on CPU it may drop the GPU a little.

Proper reveal haven't occured yet if we look at the number of people reacting and hyping to both. But yes I do expect formal reveal and 1st party games for Xbox to be much better this time around.

For the life of me I do not understand how Mark Cerny managed to convince people of this BS when we have decades of graphics cards comparisons that prove quite the opposite.

Bigger GPUs with more CUs have ALWAYS performed better than smaller GPUs with higher Clock speeds. ALWAYS.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11180/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review

Now, with that being said, after seeing the effects of SSDs on PCs I think that the much faster SSD on the PS5 will help it close the gap between them and might even outperform the XSX in some scenarios. But if it does, is going to be because of that and not because of this "smaller chips with higher clock perform better than bigger chips with lower clock speed" bs.

Digital Foundry didn't disagree on Mark Cerny.

Also what reason would Sony have to choose less CUs with higher frequency (and much higher than what could be expected, and one that makes dies harder to make and cooling also harder to achieve)? Just for the giggles? I hope you don't come with a they decided to put the boost last week because of Xbox being much stronger or "because they are dumb".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Reddit, Youtube but especially tech sites that aren’t governed by gaming bias. The ssd can load things faster but the graphics and processing  ceiling is simply lower then Series X. Im not a tech guy but that’s the general sentiment. 

You speaking a lot of sense and practicality, but unfortunately you can’t speak for the fans as a whole. It’s human nature to create rivalries among each other. More importantly you can’t expect the internet to “wait and see games in action to make an informed consensus”. We bicker and compare with whatever we have and when new news is available the narratives and arguments shift like the wind.

I think it’s unfair for PS fans to mock Xbox for literally years but when the shoe is on the other foot me and others are expected to take some kind of moral high ground? I understand the forum rules and I would never outright mock others here, but I will call out hypocrisy when I see it, as others may call me out on it. 

So also don't forget that MS fans were mocking PS fans before (on vgc) with the multiplats on Xbox 360 looking and playing much better, about PS3 having no games, Xbox being the lead on sales... and all those guys just vanished from this site or kept secluded on the nation thread. Now some are coming back for the time being =p

Lol well played. War...war never changes. As you know I’m just glad the pendulum finally swung back. But I will counter that the better multiplats talk stemmed from “teh cell” bragging. And the leading in sales bragging stemmed from the royal ass kicking PS2 gave Xbox ;)

Last edited by sales2099 - on 22 March 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Dp 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

So also don't forget that MS fans were mocking PS fans before (on vgc) with the multiplats on Xbox 360 looking and playing much better, about PS3 having no games, Xbox being the lead on sales... and all those guys just vanished from this site or kept secluded on the nation thread. Now some are coming back for the time being =p

Lol well played. War...war never changes. As you know I’m just glad the pendulum finally swung back. But I will counter that the better multiplats talk stemmed from “teh cell” bragging. And the leading in sales stemmed from the royal ass kicking PS2 gave Xbox ;)

I know, I don't judge you for that. Fanbase bickering is based on who have the momentum and what points one can win over the other =]



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
chakkra said:

For the life of me I do not understand how Mark Cerny managed to convince people of this BS when we have decades of graphics cards comparisons that prove quite the opposite.

Bigger GPUs with more CUs have ALWAYS performed better than smaller GPUs with higher Clock speeds. ALWAYS.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11180/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review

Now, with that being said, after seeing the effects of SSDs on PCs I think that the much faster SSD on the PS5 will help it close the gap between them and might even outperform the XSX in some scenarios. But if it does, is going to be because of that and not because of this "smaller chips with higher clock perform better than bigger chips with lower clock speed" bs.

"Digital Foundry didn't disagree on Mark Cerny."

They didn't outright agree with him either. And they even said "We will have to wait to see how this translates into real world scenarios"
Besides, even if they had agreed with them, we have already seen these scenerarios MULTIPLE times. In every single Graphics Card generation before. Did you take the time to look at the chart above?

And there was one particular comment they did that people either missed or chose to ignore: " It's a fascinating idea - and entirely at odds with Microsoft's design decisions for Xbox Series X - and what this likely means is that developers will need to be mindful of potential power consumption spikes that could impact clocks and lower performance."

"Also what reason would Sony have to choose less CUs with higher frequency (and much higher than what could be expected, and one that makes dies harder to make and cooling also harder to achieve)? Just for the giggles?"

Errr... because at the moment of designing the console they did not know how many CUs and what Clock speed MS was going to use? You know that they dont meet in the same room to design these things, right?



sales2099 said:
BraLoD said:

What "internet" you mean?

XB focused sites? Forums full of people that don't know what they are talking about (like here)?

Nowhere in the internet people should be able to tell you the PS5 SSD will make up for its lower specs, as we simply don't know.

Now when you have people actually working with it saying it, it might be worth taking notice, but only believe it when you see it.

As of now the gap is in XSX favor and that's undisputed.

What we are doing here is wondering how much can actually be done for games on each platform.

If the PS5 SSD is such a big deal to outweight it that will be quite surprising for me, for example, as I don't understand how much it and the console being designed around it can mean for game development.

But if it does not, discussion around how much the system and games can benefit from it is still good discusion regardless.

People are too extreme, either the PS5 sucks or the PS5 SSD is a miracle technology that makes the XSX obsolete... that's not how things work.

Can't we be excited about those consoles without needing to try to prove how much it have to take away from the other?

Reddit, Youtube but especially tech sites that aren’t governed by gaming bias. The ssd can load things faster but the graphics and processing  ceiling is simply lower then Series X. Im not a tech guy but that’s the general sentiment. 

And thats the rub. All of this is unknown until we see some games. But the Xbox also has a very fast SSD, a larger SSD, and faster max speed RAM right?

That means huge amounts of data can be dumped in to the computing environment on Xbox as well, in specific circumstances perhaps faster than on PS5. And once its there, Xbox can do a lot more with it. And importantly it can guarantee it can do a lot more with it, without having to choose between whether you can run an (already weaker) CPU at max or an (already weaker) GPU at max.

Cerny managed to convince a lot of people of the unrealised benefits of one SSD over another, versus the far-better-proven benefits (See chakkra's post) of a faster GPU. Never mind the better CPU, and the assurance they can both run at full speed all the time, as opposed to the possibility one or both of the weaker chips in the PS5 will need to be throttled.

The PS5 is undoubtedly powerful, but there is some serious wishful thinking in this thread.

Happy to have any of the assertions I have made fact checked by developers in this thread.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

victor83fernandes said:

None, as always with all generations, exclusive games will dictate the outcome, of which xbox will have no exclusives for 2 years. So there's really no competition there.

I still will choose xbox if ps5 doesn't have vapor cooling and replaceable/upgradeable graphics card

PS - Just read that ps5 is not actually 10 tf, that's only overclocked sometimes, not at all times like 12tf on xbox. More and more Im leaning towards xbox.

Why are you reading so much into Tflops? XboxS has 1.8 more Tflops than Ps4Pro. 

Does XboxS play better and have better graphics on games? Nope. 

Does XboxS's exclusives have the most jaw dropping graphics? Nope. 

So 6 vs 4.2 Tflops didn't make a difference this gen. What makes you think 12 vs 10 Tflops will make any difference next gen? Most of us throwing around the term Tflop don't even understand half of what the term means.