By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Rumor: Xbox "Lockhart" specs leaked, is $300

DonFerrari on 21 March 2020
goopy20 said:
Conina said:

Probably 720p/30 fps if they are lazy or 800p to 900p with additional tweaks.

It also depends how much headroom the 1440p/30fps has. If 35 - 40 fps are possible for the Series X unlocked and they lock it down to 30 fps for consistency, 800p/30 fps with the same settings or 900p - 1080p with additional tweaks could be possible.

But don't you need roughly twice the processing power to go from 720p to 1440p and hit the same 30fps? Also, for argument sake, lets say that game is 100% optimized on Series X and there's no head room to play with. It's a visual spectacle that pushes Series X to its limits and even has some drops here and there below 30fps, just like we're seeing with most console games today.

You need 4x as much power, you were already explained that. So since XSX would be 3x over XSS then between 800 and 900p would be the area for the 3x difference.

More likely would be 1080p on Series S versus 4k on Series X. Plus there would be other assets differences like texture because it would be pointless to keep evertyhing else equal except it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
Conina on 21 March 2020
goopy20 said:
Conina said:

Probably 720p/30 fps if they are lazy or 800p to 900p with additional tweaks.

It also depends how much headroom the 1440p/30fps has. If 35 - 40 fps are possible for the Series X unlocked and they lock it down to 30 fps for consistency, 800p/30 fps with the same settings or 900p - 1080p with additional tweaks could be possible.

But don't you need roughly twice the processing power to go from 720p to 1440p and hit the same 30fps? Also, for argument sake, lets say that game is 100% optimized on Series X and there's no head room to play with. It's a visual spectacle that pushes Series X to its limits and even has some drops here and there below 30fps, just like we're seeing with most console games today.

The Xbox One S only has 23.3% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.4 / 6.0 TFlops). The Xbox One only has 21.7% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.3 / 6.0 TFlops). Their resolution is usually 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p). But their performance is also often a bit worse.

The Lockhart would probably have 33.3% of the Xbox Series X flops performance (4.05? / 12.15 TFlops). So the gap between Lockhart + Xbox Series X would be much smaller than in this gen. If the Lockhart resolution is again 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p), running as smooth as the X console shouldn't be a problem.



DonFerrari on 21 March 2020
Conina said:
goopy20 said:

But don't you need roughly twice the processing power to go from 720p to 1440p and hit the same 30fps? Also, for argument sake, lets say that game is 100% optimized on Series X and there's no head room to play with. It's a visual spectacle that pushes Series X to its limits and even has some drops here and there below 30fps, just like we're seeing with most console games today.

The Xbox One S only has 23.3% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.4 / 6.0 TFlops). The Xbox One only has 21.7% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.3 / 6.0 TFlops). Their resolution is usually 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p). But their performance is also often a bit worse.

The Lockhart would probably have 33.3% of the Xbox Series X flops performance (4.05? / 12.15 TFlops). So the gap between Lockhart + Xbox Series X would be much smaller than in this gen. If the Lockhart resolution is again 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p), running as smooth as the X console shouldn't be a problem.

And with it at 25% the res with 33% of the power you would still have some margin to help some other aspects, perhaps upscale for titles that render 720-900p or more anti-aliasing.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

goopy20 on 21 March 2020
Conina said:
goopy20 said:

But don't you need roughly twice the processing power to go from 720p to 1440p and hit the same 30fps? Also, for argument sake, lets say that game is 100% optimized on Series X and there's no head room to play with. It's a visual spectacle that pushes Series X to its limits and even has some drops here and there below 30fps, just like we're seeing with most console games today.

The Xbox One S only has 23.3% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.4 / 6.0 TFlops). The Xbox One only has 21.7% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.3 / 6.0 TFlops). Their resolution is usually 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p). But their performance is also often a bit worse.

The Lockhart would probably have 33.3% of the Xbox Series X flops performance (4.05? / 12.15 TFlops). So the gap between Lockhart + Xbox Series X would be much smaller than in this gen. If the Lockhart resolution is again 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p), running as smooth as the X console shouldn't be a problem.

Like I said, Series S only makes sense if Series X games would all run in native 4k. Because yes, then they could just downscale to 1080p and you will get roughly the same fps at the same graphics settings.

The whole point I'm trying to make here is that wasting so much resources on forcing native 4k will bite them in the ass. The reason is that the ps5 won't need to target native 4k and will likely go for 1440p or maybe even 1080p with a focus on maximum fidelity instead. Is it that hard to grasp that developers would be seriously limited if Series X would be wasting half its Tflops on a resolution boost that most people won't even notice? Or by making their games 120fps, while hardly anyone has a 120fps capable tv...  

It's almost exactly like the X1X. It's 4 times more powerful than the Xone and could potentially put out much better graphics. However, developers could never really tap into that extra horse power because it wasn't designed to fragment the base audience. Instead all they could do is raise the resolution/ fps of X1 games and put a sticker on the box that says "optimized for X1X". With Series X it will be the same thing, they will have a rack of Xbox games that you can play on 4 different consoles and main stream pc, and a sticker that'll say "optimized for Series X". Sony won't have that, they will just have ps5 games that were specifically designed for a single platform allowing developers to push its capabilities to its fullest. 

Why next-gen consoles shouldn't focus on 'true 4K'

The danger in prioritising 'true 4K' across the board is that too much of those extra GPU resources will be spent painting pixels, with not enough power dedicated to providing an actual leap in graphical fidelity - the stuff that actually matters in defining new experiences associated with a new wave of console hardware.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-why-next-gen-consoles-shouldnt-focus-on-true-4k-rendering

Last edited by goopy20 - on 21 March 2020

DonFerrari on 21 March 2020
goopy20 said:
Conina said:

The Xbox One S only has 23.3% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.4 / 6.0 TFlops). The Xbox One only has 21.7% of the Xbox One X flops performance (1.3 / 6.0 TFlops). Their resolution is usually 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p). But their performance is also often a bit worse.

The Lockhart would probably have 33.3% of the Xbox Series X flops performance (4.05? / 12.15 TFlops). So the gap between Lockhart + Xbox Series X would be much smaller than in this gen. If the Lockhart resolution is again 25% of the Xbox One X resolution (1080p instead of 4K, 900p instead of 1800p, 800p instead of 1600p, 720p instead of 1440p), running as smooth as the X console shouldn't be a problem.

Like I said, Series S only makes sense if Series X games would all run in native 4k. Because yes, then they could just downscale to 1080p and you will get roughly the same fps at the same graphics settings.

The whole point I'm trying to make here is that wasting so much resources on forcing native 4k will bite them in the ass. The reason is that the ps5 won't need to target native 4k and will likely go for 1440p or maybe even 1080p with a focus on maximum fidelity instead. Is it that hard to grasp that developers would be seriously limited if Series X would be wasting half its Tflops on a resolution boost that most people won't even notice? Or by making their games 120fps, while hardly anyone has a 120fps capable tv...  

It's almost exactly like the X1X. It's 4 times more powerful than the Xone and could potentially put out much better graphics. However, developers could never really tap into that extra horse power because it wasn't designed to fragment the base audience. Instead all they could do is raise the resolution/ fps of X1 games and put a sticker on the box that says "optimized for X1X". With Series X it will be the same thing, they will have a rack of Xbox games that you can play on 4 different consoles and main stream pc, and a sticker that'll say "optimized for Series X". Sony won't have that, they will just have ps5 games that were specifically designed for a single platform allowing developers to push its capabilities to its fullest. 

Why next-gen consoles shouldn't focus on 'true 4K'

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-why-next-gen-consoles-shouldnt-focus-on-true-4k-rendering

Man you are being very stubborn. Even if a game is made to be 1080p on Series X (I doubt any will be) they can still even run the same game at 1080 on Series S with other aspects being dialed down. It will all depend on the dev decisions. Don't dismiss what the console can do before you even see it.

Sure I do think Series S shall have some negative impact on the development of Series X games, but nothing really major or that we can really say was due to it. Because the differences would appear on exclusives (since multiplats if affecting Series X would also affect PS5). And considering PS exclusives have been a lot better and you can't directly compare to a version in Series X all would be speculation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 22 March 2020
goopy20 said:

I don't think it's an extreme scenario that next gen consoles will take a giant leap in fidelity, isn't that pretty much what we should be expecting from next gen games lol. But I don't see that happening if they're all running at native 4k/60fps. Especially if there are already some current gen games that can't hit 60 fps on a RTX2080ti at native 4k. And no GOW isn't native 4k/60fps, it's checkerboard 4k at 30fps or 1080p/60fps.

Ultimately, while the debate will continue to rage about the effectiveness of the technique, checkerboarding makes a lot of sense here - it would be impossible to render a game like God of War at native 4K on a PS4 Pro while maintaining a smooth frame-rate, and the visual payback compared to some of the 1800p and 1620p games we've seen is self-evident.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-god-of-war-tech-analysis

Series X's specs are great but MS is really creating a problem for themselves by focusing so much on compatibility with pc and their current gen consoles. I mean think about Halo Infinite. We will have the base Xone running the game in 1080p/30fps, a X1X version probably running at 4k/30fps, a Lockhart version running at 4k/60fps and a Series X version running in 4k/120fps with a bump in (inefficient) graphics settings. In the end, no matter which console you're playing on, you will still be getting the exact same game that was designed for the lowest common denominator. They'll probably drop X1 support after a year or so, but what about X1X and the fact that all their exclusives will still have to run on a 4Tflops Lockhart for the remainder of the console generation? 

It's going to be weird as hell and Sony will be laughing their asses off when their ps5 exclusives start pouring out, completely unhindered by compatibility with weaker hardware, and where those extra resources can be used in a ton of stuff that's more exciting than just native 4k and extra fps. Especially if their SSD tech is such a game changer as Sony believes it is and isn't even available on pc.

You start with a straw man. I essentially said PS5 could do 4K/60 fps in God of War and still have a lot of power to spare. What I said was factual, but your response was irrelevant.

Halo Infinite is a game that was designed for X1 at its core, but will have assets and effects that are much higher quality than X1 or even X1X will get. I anticipate this because we've already seen that with other 1st party games. As far as performance goes, nothing has been confirmed. But I assume X1 will be 30 fps campaign, 60 fps MP. While X1X may get 60 fps in campaign, much like Gears 5.

If Sony makes better looking games, good for them. My favorite games this gen haven't necessarily been the best looking. Many of the most popular games haven't been the best looking either.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 22 March 2020

Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 22 March 2020
Radek said:

Given PS4 is still delivering native 1080p (in 90% of 2020 games so far)

I think Series S will aim for 1080p as lowest allowed resolution (with next gen visuals of course)

I think it makes more sense to look at what visually demanding games PS4 is doing at 1080p. I mean there is a lot of content hitting 1080p on X1 as well.

If developers are obligated to support Series S, I think MS will allow them to be flexible. Hence, no 1080p minimum. If a studio feels they rather drop resolution than visual settings, they should have that option. I also think image reconstruction and dynamic resolutions will help the overall presentation.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 22 March 2020
Radek said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think it makes more sense to look at what visually demanding games PS4 is doing at 1080p. I mean there is a lot of content hitting 1080p on X1 as well.

If developers are obligated to support Series S, I think MS will allow them to be flexible. Hence, no 1080p minimum. If a studio feels they rather drop resolution than visual settings, they should have that option. I also think image reconstruction and dynamic resolutions will help the overall presentation.

Sorry, but I insist. 1080p is such an old resolution, I have been using it for my PC since 2010, and many did even earlier than that.

We already have people complaining that current generation games look blurry / soft in 1080p, so should we really look forward to NEXT GEN visuals in 900p?

That would look absolutely horrible... 1080p should be the minimum, otherwise I don't predict great sales for Series S, especially since Xbox One / One S is known for being 900p machine for past 7 years, let's no kid ourselves, majority of third party games are still 900p on One.

I could literally list like 200 of them if I looked at 2013-2020 Triple A games released.

Let's not forget Xbox One X often delivers 3X to 4X resolution of base PS4 and Series S is supposed to be faster than One X. Why would go back from 2160p on One X to 900p on Series S with next gen visuals?

1080p or bust IMO! This should be the minimum and most common resolution, with less demanding games going up to 1440p (like Next Gen Fifa)

If resolution is crucial for you, then you probably shouldn't consider a Series S anyway.

I imagine a lot of content will be 1080p on Series S, I think it would be a focus from studios, but I don't feel MS should or will force it.

Less demanding games will likely surpass 1080p. I mean the X1X already does 4K in impressive looking games.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Conina on 22 March 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
Radek said:

Sorry, but I insist. 1080p is such an old resolution, I have been using it for my PC since 2010, and many did even earlier than that.

We already have people complaining that current generation games look blurry / soft in 1080p, so should we really look forward to NEXT GEN visuals in 900p?

That would look absolutely horrible... 1080p should be the minimum, otherwise I don't predict great sales for Series S, especially since Xbox One / One S is known for being 900p machine for past 7 years, let's no kid ourselves, majority of third party games are still 900p on One.

I could literally list like 200 of them if I looked at 2013-2020 Triple A games released.

Let's not forget Xbox One X often delivers 3X to 4X resolution of base PS4 and Series S is supposed to be faster than One X. Why would go back from 2160p on One X to 900p on Series S with next gen visuals?

1080p or bust IMO! This should be the minimum and most common resolution, with less demanding games going up to 1440p (like Next Gen Fifa)

If resolution is crucial for you, then you probably shouldn't consider a Series S anyway.

I imagine a lot of content will be 1080p on Series S, I think it would be a focus from studios, but I don't feel MS should or will force it.

Less demanding games will likely surpass 1080p. I mean the X1X already does 4K in impressive looking games.

I agree. Why shouldn't 720p, 800p, 900p or dynamic resolutions with 720p+ not be allowed for a cheap Lockhart? It is also allowed for the Switch.

If you can't live with these resolutions: buy a PS5 or a Series X and not the low-cost model.



goopy20 on 22 March 2020
Radek said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think it makes more sense to look at what visually demanding games PS4 is doing at 1080p. I mean there is a lot of content hitting 1080p on X1 as well.

If developers are obligated to support Series S, I think MS will allow them to be flexible. Hence, no 1080p minimum. If a studio feels they rather drop resolution than visual settings, they should have that option. I also think image reconstruction and dynamic resolutions will help the overall presentation.

Sorry, but I insist. 1080p is such an old resolution, I have been using it for my PC since 2010, and many did even earlier than that.

We already have people complaining that current generation games look blurry / soft in 1080p, so should we really look forward to NEXT GEN visuals in 900p?

That would look absolutely horrible... 1080p should be the minimum, otherwise I don't predict great sales for Series S, especially since Xbox One / One S is known for being 900p machine for past 7 years, let's no kid ourselves, majority of third party games are still 900p on One.

I could literally list like 200 of them if I looked at 2013-2020 Triple A games released.

Let's not forget Xbox One X often delivers 3X to 4X resolution of base PS4 and Series S is supposed to be faster than One X. Why would go back from 2160p on One X to 900p on Series S with next gen visuals?

1080p or bust IMO! This should be the minimum and most common resolution, with less demanding games going up to 1440p (like Next Gen Fifa)

There are probably more Xone games that run in 720p than 1080p... You're saying we already have current gen games like GOW in 4k on current gen consoles and we should expect nothing less from a next gen console. What you're forgetting is that only very few people upgraded to a mid-gen console and experienced this, while the rest was fine with 1080, hell even 720p in flagship titles like Halo 4/5.

I think the problem here is that we don't really know what next gen graphics mean as we haven't seen it yet. But wouldn't you be disappointed if we would be playing almost the same games we're playing now, just in 4k and a higher fps? Don't we want to see completely new things and an even bigger leap from say RDR1 to RDR2, which by the way, run at almost the exact same resolution on 360 and Xone.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 22 March 2020