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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

KiigelHeart said:
JRPGfan said:


The same with the 78% fully vacinated rate..... why isnt it just mandatory? get everyone vaccinated, dont let it be a choice.

So let me get this straight.. when police were arresting rioters for destroying property etc you were yelling facism. But you want people to be taken into custody to inject them against their will?

If its a demand, and you cant be civil enough to show up, and get a jab, when asked too....
I know it sounds extreme..... but its a pandemic.

I'd like things to go back to normal, and hospitals not be strained to the breaking point.
People not getting vaccinated, and takeing up hospital beds, is causeing delays or cancellations of ther operations, and indirectly costing lives.

I think its fair, after a certain point, you just go "fu** it", and make it a mandate, that everyone gets vaccinated.

My opinion may be slightly biased.
My Dad got cancer, and got delays to operations (he needed), and when he did get them, they wheren't done by the best and brightest, but the only ones available to do so at the time (stressed hospital system). The operations went bad,..... and resulted in him not being able to handle his medication (he had some pills that targeted the cancer)...

Long story short, my dads outlook was 5-10 years with cancer, though it would eventually kill him anyways.
However, he passed away within 6months (earlier this year).

Because of poorly done work, with operations, and delays.
He was cheated of haveing maybe ~5 good years of life, maybe liveing upto 10 more, than he got.

Was his death caused by unvaccinated people? maybe indirectly.


Im just saying theres two sides to every story.
Theres bound to be a socialital cost, to people, health and economy, caused by people refuseing to get vaccinated.

-------------------

Also the "yelling facist" thingy, was more reguarding Trump and his attack on journalism, the fake news thing, and promoteing far-right propagada like stuff. You saw videos of police attacking tv crews, that where just standing around tapeing (persumably because they didnt want to be video'ed, beating the crap out of protesters).

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 08 December 2021

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JRPGfan said:

If its a demand, and you cant be civil enough to show up, and get a jab, when asked too....
I know it sounds extreme..... but its a pandemic.

I'd like things to go back to normal, and hospitals not be strained to the breaking point.
People not getting vaccinated, and takeing up hospital beds, is causeing delays or cancellations of ther operations, and indirectly costing lives.

I think its fair, after a certain point, you just go "fu** it", and make it a mandate, that everyone gets vaccinated.

My opinion may be slightly biased.
My Dad got cancer, and got delays to operations (he needed), and when he did get them, they wheren't done by the best and brightest, but the only ones available to do so at the time (stressed hospital system). The operations went bad,..... and resulted in him not being able to handle his medication (he had some pills that targeted the cancer)...

Long story short, my dads outlook was 5-10 years with cancer, though it would eventually kill him anyways.
However, he passed away within 6months (earlier this year).

Because of poorly done work, with operations, and delays.
He was cheated of haveing maybe ~5 good years of life, maybe liveing upto 10 more, than he got.

Was his death caused by unvaccinated people? maybe indirectly.


Im just saying theres two sides to every story.
Theres bound to be a socialital cost, to people, health and economy, caused by people refuseing to get vaccinated.

-------------------

Also the "yelling facist" thingy, was more reguarding Trump and his attack on journalism, the fake news thing, and promoteing far-right propagada like stuff. You saw videos of police attacking tv crews, that where just standing around tapeing (persumably because they didnt want to be video'ed, beating the crap out of protesters).

My condolences, it must have been a very tough time and still is. You're not alone getting hit by the fallout of the pandemic. My wife's friend barely survived her very much delayed diagnosed lung cancer and surgery and now has to live with one lung.


There are many sides, and not just because of those refusing to get vaccinated. The bigger problem always was those refusing to adhere to lock downs and social distancing. Vaccines aren't a solution, just another tool to fight the pandemic. (The most effective one sure, but not enough on its own)

An article was just released about the excess deaths indirectly caused by the pandemic
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/delayed-health-care-during-pandemic-may-have-led-to-thousands-of-excess-deaths-study-1.5686765

Health-care restrictions brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic may have contributed to thousands of excess deaths not related to the virus, along with increased incidents of mental health disorders and substance use, and have put a strain on the Canadian health-care system, according to a study commissioned by the Canadian Medical Association (CMA).

The study shows that delayed treatments or missed health-care services due to pandemic restrictions may have been a factor in more than 4,000 excess deaths unrelated to COVID-19 infections between August and December 2020 and have also resulted in a significant backlog of medical procedures.

...

Doctors and patients throughout the year have been warning about the perils of delayed cancer diagnoses due to limited access to health-care services during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Among the delayed procedures highlighted by the study was a reduction in cancer screenings in Ontario, some of which were paused early in the pandemic and apparently remained at 20 to 35 per cent below pre-pandemic levels at the beginning of this year.

The study estimated the backlog of eight procedures, including CT scans, MRI scans, knee replacement surgeries and cataract surgeries, which totalled 327,800 waiting to be performed across the country. It says the days lost to perform these procedures ranged from 46 days for breast cancer surgeries to 118 days for hip replacement surgeries.


On one side you have problem of overburdened hospitals due to high cases, while on the other you have the negative effects of lock downs.

Further research from Statistics Canada earlier this year showed the number of drug overdoses and alcohol-related deaths among Canadians under the age of 65 was on the rise as a result of extended lockdowns and isolation during the pandemic. 

Studies have also shown the pandemic has led to a stark rise in anxiety and depression, especially among youth, across the globe. 

Nearly 17 opioid-related deaths occurred per day across Canada in 2020, the study claims, which was a rise of 70 per cent from the previous year. The rate increased to nearly 20 deaths per day in the first three months of 2021.

Regarding mental health, roughly 20 per cent of Canadians reported high levels of anxiety at the onset of the pandemic in April 2020, the study says, and by June 2021 that number had increased to 24 per cent. In the same period, the number of Canadians reporting high levels of depression increased from 10 to 15 per cent.




Getting the shot to help bring the numbers down is the best thing people can do atm, while continuing to wear face masks in public and social distance where possible to avoid further lock downs. Our youngest got his first shot yesterday. 5 to 11 year olds are up now, getting a smaller doses. While we were there booster shots were given out to 65+. Vaccination is ongoing.



One can easily divide Europe in three geographic regions more or less corresponding to the advance of a winter wave through the continent, not unlike what happens in the US.

Eastern Europe falling:

Central Europe peaking:

Western and Northern Europe rising still:

Impact of restrictions of lack thereof seem restricted, but mortality rates are a good fit to vaccination rates. How Omicron is going to interact with these is anyone's guess. Since Delta and Omicron immunity don't quite overlap both can coexist to an extent. That could mean there could still be a lot of Delta mortality going on under a huge layer of milder Omicron infections. But rollout of boosters and the natural waning of the Delta wave in the upcoming weeks should make it less likely... maybe.



 

 

 

 

 

Unvaccinated Illinoisians Would Pay Covid Hospital Bills Under New Proposals

Illinois residents who are eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine and refuse to take it would have to pay for their treatment if they contract the virus under a proposed new bill.

"I think it's time that we say: 'You choose not to get vaccinated, then you're also going to assume the risk that if you do catch COVID, and you get sick, the responsibility is on you,'" State Representative Jonathan Carroll told the Chicago Sun-Times this week.

Legislation filed at the Illinois House of Representatives on Monday proposed that "a person who is eligible to receive a COVID-19 vaccine and chooses not to be vaccinated shall pay for health care expenses out-of-pocket if the person becomes hospitalized because of COVID-19 symptoms."

Such a bill would apply to any health insurance policies "amended, delivered, issued, or renewed on or after January 1, 2023."

Good, about time somebody said "you refuse to get the jab, you reap what you sow" instead of wasting resources. And (perhaps) more importantly, people with chronic conditions unrelated to Covid can actually get a bed. If states can regulate women's wombs, we can sure AF regulate their contagiousness.

I hope it passes.



Weekly update. Looks like Europe has reached its peak, starting to go back down.

Good news for Omicron, while cases continue to rise exponentially in South Africa, reported deaths are still in decline. If Omicron can push out Delta we might finally have a chance to go back to a more normal life.

In total 4.25 million new cases were reported last week (slightly down from 4.29 million) to a total of 269,414,918
Also another 53,654 more deaths were reported last week (up from 51,530) to a total of 4,253,214 (India had about 2,000 extra deaths counted this week)

Europe is starting to head back down, USA still seems to be climbing after the Thanksgiving wobble.

The continents

Europe reported 2.49 million new cases (slightly down from 2.58 million) and 26,981 more deaths (slightly down from 27,293)
North America reported 887K new cases (885K last week) and 11,163 more deaths (slightly up from 10,819)
Asia reported 568K new cases (down from 599K) and 11,685 more deaths (up from 9,653)
Africa reported 169K new cases (up from 78.7K) and 1,076 more deaths (929 last week)
South America reported 126K new cases (down from 134K) and 2,672 more deaths (2,776 last week)
Oceania reported 12.1K new cases (12.0K last week) and 77 deaths (60 last week)

Corners of the world

USA reported 827K new cases (827K last week) and 9,210 more deaths (slightly up from 8,978)
South Africa reported 108K new cases (up from 48.9K) and 140 deaths (157 last week)
India reported 58.7K new cases (down from 60.3K) and 4,874 more deaths (2,321 last week), looks like a correction in total deaths counted
Brazil reported 55.4K new cases (down from 61.8K) and 1,279 more deaths (down from 1,454)
South Korea reported 41.1K new cases (up from 29.7K) and 391 deaths (299 last week)
Canada reported 25.0K new cases (up from 20.2K) and 140 deaths (139 last week)
Iran reported 21.6K new cases (down from 27.1K) and 537 deaths (604 last week)
Australia reported 10.8K new cases (up from 9,614) and 52 deaths (52 last week)
Japan reported 850 new cases (737 last week) and 8 deaths (10 last week)

Europe in detail

France, Spain and Norway look to be the last to peak, although Denmark and the UK are heading further up again

Global vaccination rate is now 45.35% (+1.33%)

South America 60.54% (+1.57%)
Europe 59.28% (+0.89%)
Oceania 56.44% (+0.99%)
North America 55.72% (+0.78%)
Asia 51.27% (+1.71%)
Africa 7.93% (+0.46%)



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@haxxiy Omicron has me wondering. Is it possible to genetically alter a virus on purpose to make it non lethal, more contagious while teaching your body the antibodies to ward off the deadly variant? Basically using a virus to make a self replicating 'vaccine' against that virus.

Setting the obvious moral and ethical problems aside, is it possible to release a self replicating vaccine into the wild (and get stuff like The Rain...)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/south-african-doctors-see-early-signs-omicron-variant-is-milder-than-delta/
It's not quite a safe variant (don't go hosting Omicron parties yet) but much better than Delta so far.

Only 30% of hospitalizations in recent weeks serious, about half the rate of previous waves; just 3% of patients die, unlike 20% in earlier outbreaks.

As the Omicron coronavirus variant sweeps through South Africa, Dr. Unben Pillay is seeing dozens of sick patients a day. Yet he hasn’t had to send anyone to the hospital.

That’s one of the reasons why he, along with other doctors and medical experts, suspect that the Omicron version really is causing milder COVID-19 than Delta, even if it seems to be spreading faster.

“They are able to manage the disease at home,” Pillay said of his patients. “Most have recovered within the 10- to 14-day isolation period,” said Pillay.

It seems almost as effective as the vaccines are with Delta.



SvennoJ said:

@haxxiy Omicron has me wondering. Is it possible to genetically alter a virus on purpose to make it non lethal, more contagious while teaching your body the antibodies to ward off the deadly variant? Basically using a virus to make a self replicating 'vaccine' against that virus.

Setting the obvious moral and ethical problems aside, is it possible to release a self replicating vaccine into the wild (and get stuff like The Rain...)

I don't think our current gene editing techniques are good enough to reliably make such changes. First of all we usually don't know what effect changes on the genome result in. And then we have to specifically edit this parts. So currently no. But with future tech... I think that might be possible.



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SvennoJ said:

@haxxiy Omicron has me wondering. Is it possible to genetically alter a virus on purpose to make it non lethal, more contagious while teaching your body the antibodies to ward off the deadly variant? Basically using a virus to make a self replicating 'vaccine' against that virus.

Setting the obvious moral and ethical problems aside, is it possible to release a self replicating vaccine into the wild (and get stuff like The Rain...)

Theoretically speaking, sure. There is a natural precedent in alastrim, which is 98 - 99% similar to smallpox but ~ 30 times less lethal. Even without a smallpox vaccine, alastrim would have completely replaced smallpox because its lower lethality meant it could spread much more easily and it generated sterilizing cross-immunity.

In practice, you'd instantly earn a Nobel prize if you figured out a mechanism that reliably predicts how dangerous a virus is based only in its protein structures. The closest I can think of is breeding viruses to become less tolerant of the higher temperatures found in internal organs. This is how some attenuated vaccines were made in the past. The problem is, since this was found to depend on a couple of mutations at most, the virus can randomly "revert", which for instance seldom causes vaccine-induced polio.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 13 December 2021

 

 

 

 

 

H3N2 is spreading like wildfire around here. From 1 to 23,000 cases in a month. I wonder if that's the same strain that can hit the Northern Hemisphere soon.



 

 

 

 

 

I’ll leave this link that many here may find interesting. I’m not sure if it’s been posted before.
Keep an open mind, and hear this guy out.

https://www.amazon.com/Pandemia-Coronavirus-Hysteria-Government-Rights-ebook/dp/B08XJRRZJP/ref=nodl_