JRPGfan said:
Bullshit. Eric what you just said is wrong (so either you dont know better, or are lying). |
The CDC is a federal agency and the last 4 years have shown that the federal government only lies. So can we really trust them?
If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.
EnricoPallazzo said:
Agree 100%. NZ deserves the kudos for handling the situation but we need keep those things in mind when people say "ZN did why cant we do the same?". It is a very different situation. Still I think government could have been more nefarious in dealing with the situation. I would much rather close the borders 100% and deny people entering and leaving the country to be able to have a life that is closer to "normal" and keep stores open and us being able to see family and friends, than live at least 2 years in this miserable situation. What happened after people came back from summer holidays was so predictable. What you said about 100 deaths per day, I believe vaccination will bring this number drastically down while contamination will still he high. Which brings me to my initial point which was considered by some as nonsense: - If we know the vast majority of the people that die are older than 70 and people in group risk, and this people is being vaccinated and the number of deaths will go down drastically, what would be the threshold for us to come back to normal? 10 deaths per day? 1? Maybe hospital capacity? - What about the people that refuse to take the vaccine (50% in France) still keeping the rates high? Are they still going to keep us locked because of it? - What about religious groups that still refuse to cancel their gatherings, keeping contamination and death rates high? Are they still going to keep us locked because of it? There needs to be a moment when government will tell us "now it is under your responsibility regarding your life, you are allowed to leave home now". And if you want to stay forever locked just do it. If you want to be part of a gangbang with strangers just do it. Want to go to a football game, just do it and you deal with the consequences. |
How would closing the borders 100% and keeping the stores open at the same time even work? What would they sell when truck drivers or ship crews can't pass the borders? After all, tons of wares are manufactured abroad.
How would you secure the borders of continental countries? You'd need to position a border guard every 100m or so in order to keep someone from entering or leaving. Many countries have border cities or villages where you can easily walk from one country to the other without even having to use roads. Just a short trip through a forest or a field and you're on the other side. Therefore for many countries you'd need tens of thousands of border guards. That's pretty much the reason why the GDR built a wall back in the days (and fences) to stop people from fleeing into West Germany.
Also you can't legally deny entry to your own citizens. No constitutional court would allow that.
And once the virus has spread enough in your country, closing the borders won't have a bif effect for your own country.
Last edited by Barozi - on 18 December 2020
The FDA authorises Massachusetts-based Moderna's vaccine for emergency use:
Yesterday the prices for the vaccines got leaked accidentally. These are prices that were negotiated between the vaccine manufacturers and the EU.
Price per dose from cheapest to most expensive:
1. AstraZeneca (GB/SWE): €1.78
2. Johnson & Johnson (USA): €6.94
3. Sanofi/GlaxoSmithKline (FRA/GB): €7.56
4. Curevac (GER): €10
5. Pfizer/BioNTech (USA/GER): €12.00
5. Moderna (USA): €14.70
Well just i heard this morning the virus has reappeared in Sydney Australia from The Northern beaches and Greater Sydney is now on alert.
People are such sheep. Currently there is over an hour line up at our local supermarket, outside, around the store. Thursday morning there was hardly anyone. What changed, yesterday Ford warned we would be going to red zone status on Monday. Shops close, but not supermarkets. Yet people are hoarding again anyway.
I heard from my sister that he Netherlands locked down again. All the holiday shopping caused a big spike so now everyone has to stay home again. We'll be next.
| SvennoJ said: People are such sheep. Currently there is over an hour line up at our local supermarket, outside, around the store. Thursday morning there was hardly anyone. What changed, yesterday Ford warned we would be going to red zone status on Monday. Shops close, but not supermarkets. Yet people are hoarding again anyway. |
Same thing happending in denmark.
From the 25th to the 3rd of jan, we re going full lockdown.
(only allowed to visit crocery stores, basically)
In a attempt to stomp out some of the increased spread likely to come from christmas.
What this does to new-years eves? no idea... wonder how many will disreguard it.
"I heard from my sister that he Netherlands locked down again. All the holiday shopping caused a big spike so now everyone has to stay home again. We'll be next."
Yep, we already closed down most "normal" shops back december 16th.
Shopping malls ect, and they where barely given any warning (ei. a days warning, to close down malls ect). The short warning, was done on purpose so it would cause a massive spike in people going out shopping at mauls last minute.
The good news is something like 8 outta 10, danes are more than willing to go get vaccinated.
No idea what the split is like other places, but thankfully most danes seem fine with takeing a shot to get back to normal.
Weekly update, cases keep climbing
In total 4.57 million new cases were reported last week (up from 4.37 million) to just shy of 76 million total.
Also 79,906 more deaths were reported (up from 76,833) to a total of 1,680,295
USA and Europe are close together, Europe is on the rise again. Reported deaths are increasing again in Europe, and still increasing in the USA.
The continents
North America reported 1.75 million new cases (up from 1.68 million) and 23,727 more deaths (up from 22,664)
Europe repored 1.48 million new cases (up from 1.38 million) and 34,788 more deaths (up from 33,264)
Asia reported 723K new cases (down from 816K) and 10,134 more deaths (down from 10,833)
South America reported 488K new cases (up from 430K) and 8,633 more deaths (up from 7,691)
Africa reported 125K new cases (up from 110K) and 2,672 more deaths (up from 2,368)
Oceania reported 709 new cases (646 last week) and 12 deaths (13 last week)
Corners of the world
USA reported 1.59 million new cases (up from 1.52 million) and 18,095 more deaths (up from 17,200)
Brazil reported 328K new cases (up from 301K) and 5,234 more deaths (up from 4,472)
India reported 178K new cases (down from 219K) and 2,509 more deaths (down from 2,926)
Iran reported 53.2K new cases (down from 75.5K) and 1,546 more deaths (down from 2,032)
South Africa reported 56.4K new cases (up from 39.3K) and 1,333 more deaths (up from 989)
Canada reported 46.5K new cases (46.3K last week) and 789 deaths (755 last week)
Japan reported 18.6K new cases (up from 16.3K) and 281 deaths (261 last week)
South Korea reported 6.73K new cases (up from 4.45K) and 73 deaths (36 last week)
Australia reported 83 cases, no deaths
Europe in detail
Germany takes the hot seat, UK is close behind.
The Netherlands is experiencing a surge and has now closed down.
Denmark is still rising, as well as Sweden although their data is only stable up to a week behind
With Brazil and South Africa back on the rise, USA not going down yet, totals keep creeping closer to 5 million infections a week.
Rab said:
That's out of context and you know it :P We all give up some "freedom" to be together in a harmonious community, covid has shown some communities are better than others at this, to have absolute freedom means being alone, few including yourself choose that path |
SvennoJ said:
Out of context, yet if you want to apply it to this situation it becomes |
The Gov should not be choosing who lives and dies (unless the situation was different and significantly more dire). The Gov should have been more clear and consistent to begin with. You can't change from don't bother with masks to you have to wear one. You can't shut down small businesses who follow the rules but allow big box stores to remain open. You can't install rules and guidelines then disregard them yourself. The Gov should be doing extra to specifically take care of those at risk, even though it may be a considerable inconvenience for those at risk individuals.
If the Gov sends individuals to war (in which case they ask first and don't force you to unless it's an extremely serious threat to many of it's people), they don't arm the population with a uniform, helmet, gun, ammo, etc. Just those who are the most at risk. Everyone else is asked to chip in however they can, though they aren't forced either, again, unless it's dire for many.
In this situation, as it's understood, asking for social distancing and masks indoors up front, would've made sense. Forcing everyone to do so, along with lockdowns, and curfews in some places, is the kind of thing you would expect when millions upon millions or more of your people are expected to succumb. The only way lockdown would make sense in this situation is if the Gov could guarantee that others who weren't at risk, wouldn't suffer much or die, which they certainly didn't achieve.
It's about individuals freedom of choice. The choice to come together or be apart when individuals see fit. Yes, by all means, give up some freedoms if you choose to, but you then have to deal with the consequences. Don't force others to give up their freedoms if they don't see the need to, otherwise eventually they'll decide to 'return the favor' in some manner. Everyone giving up some of their freedom has led to people suffering and dying who likely wouldn't have. The answer is to do a professional job of convincing most to protect those at risk, within reason, not take away everyone's right to choose. If you do a good job, are logical, and can unite (which is easier said than done), people will follow.
| EricHiggin said: The Gov should not be choosing who lives and dies (unless the situation was different and significantly more dire). The Gov should have been more clear and consistent to begin with. You can't change from don't bother with masks to you have to wear one. You can't shut down small businesses who follow the rules but allow big box stores to remain open. You can't install rules and guidelines then disregard them yourself. The Gov should be doing extra to specifically take care of those at risk, even though it may be a considerable inconvenience for those at risk individuals. If the Gov sends individuals to war (in which case they ask first and don't force you to unless it's an extremely serious threat to many of it's people), they don't arm the population with a uniform, helmet, gun, ammo, etc. Just those who are the most at risk. Everyone else is asked to chip in however they can, though they aren't forced either, again, unless it's dire for many. In this situation, as it's understood, asking for social distancing and masks indoors up front, would've made sense. Forcing everyone to do so, along with lockdowns, and curfews in some places, is the kind of thing you would expect when millions upon millions or more of your people are expected to succumb. The only way lockdown would make sense in this situation is if the Gov could guarantee that others who weren't at risk, wouldn't suffer much or die, which they certainly didn't achieve. It's about individuals freedom of choice. The choice to come together or be apart when individuals see fit. Yes, by all means, give up some freedoms if you choose to, but you then have to deal with the consequences. Don't force others to give up their freedoms if they don't see the need to, otherwise eventually they'll decide to 'return the favor' in some manner. Everyone giving up some of their freedom has led to people suffering and dying who likely wouldn't have. The answer is to do a professional job of convincing most to protect those at risk, within reason, not take away everyone's right to choose. If you do a good job, are logical, and can unite (which is easier said than done), people will follow. |
The government is made up of fallible people just like you and me. It took a long time to find proof in all the data how useful masks were. At first, the masks we use now, were not working for first responders. They are still pretty useless for long exposure, breathing the air in the same enclosed space. However then the data showed that mask use still reduces the rate of infection, and mandating masks allows loosening of other restrictions, ie opening up businesses with social distancing rules in place.
Big box stores playing by different rules is scummy, agreed. Talking to my sister she told me that in the Netherlands everything but grocery stores had to close. However some stores, like walmart here, sell groceries on the side. Thus many big stores got exemptions that way, and even added groceries to get around it. (Now the rules have been updated that stores have to be 90% groceries to be allowed to remain open)
I grew up when conscription was still normal, called up, tested, approved, but got an exemption for going to university first. I would have been recruited, against my will, however conscription was abandoned just in time. You had the freedom to choose jail over joining the army though...
We're dealing with the consequences of apparently too much freedom right now. It was left up to the population from summer until now to self regulate and get the numbers down. No amount of advertisements, reporting, announcements, pleas, and appealing to common sense helped to get the second wave under control. Sadly people won't follow.
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