By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
Barozi on 18 December 2020
Edit Thread
EnricoPallazzo said:
SvennoJ said:

Out of context, yet if you want to apply it to this situation it becomes

"Those who temporarily give up a little freedom, purchase long lasting safety"


EnricoPallazzo said:

 I think what really helps is that they just hard closed their borders. And somehow they were not being attacked for it.

I remember the first thing I thought when the pandemic started was "just close the borders!!!". In UK that never really happened and it was just sad, when Italy was in the middle of a chaos there were daily flights arriving here from Italy, people even filmed them entering the country by Heathrow and not even being asked questions.

Later on before the second wave things were getting better then a lot of people flew to other countries for vacation and then when they came back the rate of infection increased again.

NZ did the right thing, ignored those complaining about closing the borders and the political impact of it and now they just beat it. But just try to open borders again and you will see that it will come back. It is a nasty virus.


You have a point there, one of the reasons we can't get rid of it. NZ doesn't have truck drivers that cross the border on a daily basis nor people working cross border as a daily commute, nor Americans traveling through the country to get to Alaska or their second homes or business.

Canadians do the same thing, heck even now people are going to Florida for the winter. You can't stop your own population from leaving and you can't deny them re-entry. Plus we won't put incoming people in quarantine hotels, we just tell to them to self isolate for a few weeks and hopefully they listen.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-travel-covid-19-1.5843872

In late March, Canada closed its borders to foreigners visiting for non-essential reasons. Since then, there have been more than seven million entries into the country by land or air by Canadians and foreigners.

Vinette said truck drivers account for the largest group of people entering Canada during the pandemic, making up about half of the total entries so far.

The second-biggest group is individuals who live in border towns and have jobs on the opposite side of the border, he said.

Both groups are exempt from Canada's 14-day quarantine requirement — which was designed to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

The virus will keep coming in. It seems to be impossible to hand trucks off at the border so drivers don't cross borders, only the trailers. Plus making arrangements for those working cross border is too complicated as well, while nurses etc have to live away from home as a precaution...

Of course we can still do much more to limit community spread, yet people need to live (have fun) and (short term) money is more important in the end. It could be worse, it's just a bit over 100 deaths per day...

Agree 100%. NZ deserves the kudos for handling the situation but we need keep those things in mind when people say "ZN did why cant we do the same?". It is a very different situation. Still I think government could have been more nefarious in dealing with the situation. I would much rather close the borders 100% and deny people entering and leaving the country to be able to have a life that is closer to "normal" and keep stores open and us being able to see family and friends, than live at least 2 years in this miserable situation. What happened after people came back from summer holidays was so predictable. 

What you said about 100 deaths per day, I believe vaccination will bring this number drastically down while contamination will still he high. Which brings me to my initial point which was considered by some as nonsense:

- If we know the vast majority of the people that die are older than 70 and people in group risk, and this people is being vaccinated and the number of deaths will go down drastically, what would be the threshold for us to come back to normal? 10 deaths per day? 1? Maybe hospital capacity? 

- What about the people that refuse to take the vaccine (50% in France) still keeping the rates high? Are they still going to keep us locked because of it?

- What about religious groups that still refuse to cancel their gatherings, keeping contamination and death rates high? Are they still going to keep us locked because of it?

There needs to be a moment when government will tell us "now it is under your responsibility regarding your life, you are allowed to leave home now". And if you want to stay forever locked just do it. If you want to be part of a gangbang with strangers just do it. Want to go to a football game, just do it and you deal with the consequences.

How would closing the borders 100% and keeping the stores open at the same time even work? What would they sell when truck drivers or ship crews can't pass the borders? After all, tons of wares are manufactured abroad.

How would you secure the borders of continental countries? You'd need to position a border guard every 100m or so in order to keep someone from entering or leaving. Many countries have border cities or villages where you can easily walk from one country to the other without even having to use roads. Just a short trip through a forest or a field and you're on the other side. Therefore for many countries you'd need tens of thousands of border guards. That's pretty much the reason why the GDR built a wall back in the days (and fences) to stop people from fleeing into West Germany.

Also you can't legally deny entry to your own citizens. No constitutional court would allow that.

And once the virus has spread enough in your country, closing the borders won't have a bif effect for your own country.

Last edited by Barozi - on 18 December 2020