Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

You concerned yet?

Yes 85 48.02%
 
No, but I will be followi... 50 28.25%
 
No, its being overblown 42 23.73%
 
Total:177
Lafiel said:
SvennoJ said:
The death toll of one man's rampage in Nova Scotia now stands at 22, compared to 10 covid19 deaths there... The worst mass shooting in modern Canadian history. No clue yet what set him off but since he was wearing a police uniform and had made his car look like a police car, definitely well planned. It was also a 100km rampage leaving 16 crime scenes behind before he got shot in a standoff with police.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/portapique-shooting-memorials-april-21-1.5539894

I wonder if the doom and gloom or lock down from the corona virus set him off. Around the world crime rates are dropping since the lock downs:
https://time.com/5819507/crime-drop-coronavirus/
Yet I suspect domestic violence got worse.

the anti-virus measures definitely didn't "set him off", but the state of affairs might have provided him the opportunity to act out his fantasies he clearly had beforehands (which is why he had police-disguise at the ready)

Any prior mental health issues?
It should be a policy not to tell weapons to these people, and/or if they had ones (guns) before a mental illness, to have them taken away by someone,
once they get such.  Crazy person + gun = bad combo.



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vivster said:

KiigelHeart said:

How can they be sure which deaths are caused by corona? Lockdown and hysteria will also kill people.

Here in Finland, doctors are worried that many severely ill people aren't going to the hospitals anymore. 30% less people have gone to cardiologists for example. They're afraid to catch corona but end up being at for greater risk staying at home.

I'd expect this has been far worse in US past month with all the panic. And there was been much more people dying by heart failures...

The panic isn't even close to being as much as causing a multitude of additional heart failures. They're diagnosed as such because they're not tested for anything else. You know what else makes your heart stop beating? Not being able to breath.

Since the US has a vested interest to cover up COVID19 deaths I doubt we'll ever get any accurate numbers before the year is over and we get a tally of total deaths. Of all the western countries the US should not only have the most COVID19 deaths but also by far the most deaths caused indirectly due to people not getting the care they need.

As I understood, many deaths at home are not tested for COVID-19 either. I read it was thousands of deaths reported as COVID-19 without testing.

What makes your heart stop beating is usually a coronary heart disease that stops the heart from getting oxygen. Most people probably had this condition and were then pushed through the edge by either COVID-19, heavy stress load, increased alchohol consumption at home, not going to hospital for treatment etc or all of the above. Corona would be the biggest factor of course, I'm not disputing that. 

But yeah, if these people had heart attacks simply for not being able to breathe because of corona symptoms, and they still didn't go to hospital, it's pretty fucked up. Unnecessary deaths..

JRPGfan said:
KiigelHeart said:

It's not a ten fold increase though. I agree it doesn't explain all of the increase, but it would still be misleading to report all of them as COVID-19 deaths.

Serious cases should be treated at a hospital. Paints a sad picture of US healthcare system if people stay home while suffering such bad symptoms. 

hmmm close enough? 

read this:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/scores-of-probable-coronavirus-deaths-are-not-being-counted-by-the-city/

JRPGfan said:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/scores-of-probable-coronavirus-deaths-are-not-being-counted-by-the-city/

“Out of the 12 [cardiac cases], I did on Sunday 10 had COVID symptoms. Flu-like symptoms, cough, etc. Nobody made it back. That’s going on all over the city,” said Anthony Almojera, vice president of FDNY, EMS union local 3621.

“There’s gotta be 200 a day… obviously are not all COVID, but they aren’t being tested,” he said.

The FDNY confirmed that paramedics are seeing more than 300 calls for cardiac arrest with “well over” 200 people dying each day. Typically paramedics would deal with around two dozen deaths on around 54 to 74 cardiac arrest calls.

So normally theres ~50-75 calls for cardiac arrests, calls each day. Out of these ~24 or so die.
Now they have 300+ calls each day, and over 200 pr day dieing? and its not noted as due to Coronavirus.

"New York City’s death toll — which surged past 3,000 on Tuesday — only includes the number of confirmed cases. The city does not test people for the disease after they’ve died — even if they end up in the Medical Examiner’s Office after fighting coronavirus-like symptoms."

Number of deaths due to this thing is being under reported by alot.

If you go from a "normal" avg of ~24 deaths due to heart attacks pr day.
To suddenly haveing 200+ every day.

Thats basically a factor of 10.


Just a "odd" coincidence most of these happend to have Covid19 symptoms before haveing heart attacks? yet wheren't tested for it after they died.
Cause of death noted down = Cardiac arrest.


I would not be surprised if in the US, you guys arnt counting nurseing homes, hospice,... or home deaths, correctly, or to the same degree as most european countries have.  Basically there could be twice as many deaths due to covid19 in the USA right now, as worldometers.info shows, and I wouldn't even be surprised.

Other news sites reported it's 4-6x increase on average during certain time period. So not ten fold. 

Testing dead people is tricky as far as I know. I'm a police officer and I've been to two home death scenes where people died after having COVID-19 symptoms. We would've liked to know for sure if these people had it but doctors said testing dead bodies is unreliable and they won't do it.. 

Both these cases had been drinking heavily for weeks before dying so who knows. I'm still healty though.



@KiigelHeart "I'm still healty though."

Hopefully it stays that way, so many in the "frontlines" get sick from this virus.
In future be extra mindfull if your visiting houses like that, theres a good chance it could be the virus.


"Both these cases had been drinking heavily for weeks before dying so who knows."

Its one of those things that also hurts your immune systems ability to cope, makeing it more likely you get infected (and have a worse outcome):
If ever theres a time to not excessively drink, this is it.  Time to take vitamins pills + vitamin D/C supplement instead.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 22 April 2020

US just published a study it ran, a "test study" of chloroquine on a group of military veterans.

There findings:
Chloroquine treatment = 28% mortality rate.
Chloroquine + antibiotics = 22% mortality rate.
Normal Treatment = 11% mortality rate



JRPGfan said:
US just published a study it ran, a "test study" of chloroquine on a group of military veterans.

There findings:
Chloroquine treatment = 28% mortality rate.
Chloroquine + antibiotics = 22% mortality rate.
Normal Treatment = 11% mortality rate

the study (non-peer reviewed at this stage) also mentioned that (hydroxy-)chloroquine was more often used in more serious cases, but even adjusted for that the pure hcq treatment showed a statistically significant increase in mortality compared with the normal treatment in their sample, while the hcq + antibiotics treatment was within the margin of error with the normal treatment

Last edited by Lafiel - on 22 April 2020

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Trump ordered the US mulitary to destroy any Iranian gunboats that start that close manoeuvring BS again, this should put a cap on their actions for a while and make them think twice. It's bette than the alternative of having some unskilled fuck attack a US ship by accident or a civilian ship. This might desculate things for a while on that front but he needs to rally the EU states, every day that passes China are gifting more and more EU countries with aid while the US was until not long ago draining EU countries of supplies. He needs to start fighting them socially to keep the order of things and STFU about dismantling unionships and organizations or he'll loose western allies and weaken the US even further. Gather your country together yeah but please, for the love of fuck hold up international relations and keep quiet on pulling out of China until you can actually sustainably manage to do so. China is out here winning a war of support and strengthening themselves further with other governemnts without barely making a sound to the worlds people.

That said, I've seen a lot of people above give Trump final agency on this, he has about as much agency in this as a cat being chased by a pack of German Shepards. He is only is a position to react militarily and he knows it but what he still can do is retain order, sadly he has shown himself to be a fucking terrible leader in this regard and he looks visably rattled by current events. Ya'll need to impeach this weak mother fucker and get Pence in office for the sake of Western alliances yet that will not happen now cause you empowered him with false allegations for three years, he's been made politically bulletproof even when he fucks up.
And if you thinknyou're safe that european people will stick to western ideals, think again, you lost many of us when you painted Trump as some kind of new age Hitler and thr youth have eaten it up. They'd fight for Eastern alliance values out of ignorance too as we are so damn socialised it could go wither way on the side of the union, maybe a little more difficult to predict on a nation level should the union fall apart.



 

China Numba wan!!

JRPGfan said:
Lafiel said:

the anti-virus measures definitely didn't "set him off", but the state of affairs might have provided him the opportunity to act out his fantasies he clearly had beforehands (which is why he had police-disguise at the ready)

Any prior mental health issues?
It should be a policy not to tell weapons to these people, and/or if they had ones (guns) before a mental illness, to have them taken away by someone,
once they get such.  Crazy person + gun = bad combo.

Likely, he had prior violent offense

https://globalnews.ca/news/6848816/nova-scotia-shooting-gunman-assault-2001/

Matthew said he was just 15 years old when an allegedly drunk Gabriel Wortman assaulted him outside a denture clinic in Dartmouth, N.S., almost 20 years ago.

“He came out, I guess, in a half-drunken rage and ended up punching me as many times in the head as he could,” said Matthew, who is now 34 and works in sales in Dartmouth. Global News has chosen not to reveal Matthew’s full name as he was a minor at the time of the assault.

“Then he had a friend who came over from around the corner and hit me with a crowbar,” Matthew said. “Then the two men stomped on my head and all over my body.”

The court documents related to Wortman’s arrest do not mention a second person. Global News called and emailed Halifax Regional Police for comment but has not yet received a response.

Matthew said he tried to defend himself and was thrown into a newspaper box as the assault ended and police officers arrived.

The denturist was charged with assault in October 2001, according to court documents.

.....

Details are slowly emerging about the shooter’s life that included a string of disputes with police, tenants and even family members, according to interviews and court records.

He was involved in an encounter in February with Halifax Regional Police over an unmarked cop car that was parked in the lot outside his clinic.

Wortman’s uncle filed a case against him in Nova Scotia Supreme Court over a property in Portapique [where the rampage started], N.S., after a dispute arose over financing, according to court records.


It's unclear whether he was allowed to have guns.

Reading that it seems he was going to snap at some point. Whether the lock down put him over the edge or gave him opportunity to act, don't know. Whether the lock down made the outcome worse, probably not. Most people were inside and he shot a random jogger along the way. He could have killed a lot more people if they were outside. It's a quiet rural area, not a lot there to stop him. Police did stop him before reaching Halifax.







Back on topic, current trends

Daily reported cases is holding steady world wide while Europe and USA are slowly starting to decline.
Daily reported deaths are declining in Europe while corrections in the USA still drive it upwards.
However while Russia is now already contributing 20% to the daily reported cases in Europe, their reported deaths (<2% of Europe) still lag behind and can drive up the reported deaths in Europe in a week or so.

Closer look at Europe

Russia is now on top for adding new cases each day, edging out the UK.
France did a big drop after working through corrections.
Sweden is still holding steady but has a lot of variation in test results.
Austria continues to go down the fastest.


The UK currently reports the most deaths each day.
Sweden's death toll is rising again while Norway is still doing the best.
Spain and Italy continue their slow decline while France came down after adding corrections.

I added Turkey to my corners of the world graph

Canada is still slowly climbing while Iran has a few less cases each day, too regular to put much faith in it.
Brazil is still climbing while Australia seems to have beaten covid19.
South Korea continues to keep the virus at bay while China suddenly added some big numbers to go back down after.
Turkey started testing late, resulting in explosive test results like Russia but has now also flattened the curve.



Some behind the scenes looks of the heroic efforts to save people

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/inside-a-toronto-icu-what-it-takes-to-care-for-covid-19-s-most-critically-ill-1.4901853


“This is not like a disease we have seen before,” said internal medicine specialist Dr. Jamie Spiegelman. He says COVID-19 does not behave like a regular pneumonia, making medical management “unpredictable and day by day we have to change what we do."

There are even signs the disease may be causing heart inflammation, kidney disease, blood clots and liver problems.

...

Turning over a COVID-19 patient on a ventilator requires six people. It must be done slowly and carefully so breathing tubes don’t get disconnected, which would be dangerous for the patient, but also risk spreading the virus.

...

“People are not getting better quickly, and they are on breathing machines for a very long time,” she said. “We don't have any treatments, all we can do is support the body with the machines we have and hope the body itself recovers from the disease."

...

Hospitals are also reporting shortages of sedatives, with COVID-19 patients requiring a lot of sedation to keep them calm and to prevent them from coughing -- a dangerous means of transmitting the virus to health-care workers -- during procedures.

...

Nurse Sugandha Pandya, who is overseeing 32 COVID-19 patients, has one message: “Just please stay home and be safe and keep us safe.”

Outside the ICU, COVID-19 patients who are less severely ill are still closely watched in case stable breathing turns into a crisis. That can happen within seconds, says nurse Ayotunde Ajiboye.

“It is a deadly disease. I wouldn’t want anybody to have it. It is unpredictable.”

...

“You know the fact that only a tiny percentage of the population has had this at this point, so we're still looking at many months going on,” said Dr. Michael Gardam, chief of staff.

“The economic impact of that is going to be astounding.”

...

Bruno Iozzo was a healthy 73-year-old before he developed a cough in late March. By the time he got to Humber River, he was gasping for breath.

He was one of the first COVID-19 patients admitted there, and he is still on a ventilator, three weeks later.

Dr. Sanjay Manocha says X-rays of Iozzo’s lungs show the toll the virus is taking. What should be black on the image is white and hazy, meaning his lungs are filled with fluid inflammation and can’t send enough oxygen into his blood.

It’s the “classic picture that we see of these corona pneumonias,” said Manocha. In Iozzo’s case, that has led to kidney failure and dialysis.

“We're learning as we go, because it's not the same and our approach is different for these patients compared to other patients who have pneumonia.”

ICU staff at Humber have yet to see any of their patients recover enough to go home.


Stay home, don't listen to herd immunity BS, this needs to be stopped.



KiigelHeart said:

.. but doctors said testing dead bodies is unreliable and they won't do it.. 

No. Doctors are scared shit about cutting up dead covid bodies. The local university hospital has done post mortems on 20 bodies (surgeons volunteered) which had serious conditions and found covid viruses everywhere, in masses. So this is very dangerous thing to do. Until recently, the WHO advised against doing it. In a nutshell, it was seen that giving the oxygen treatment was useless in all 20 cases as the lungs were incapable of taking up enough oxygen.