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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

DonFerrari on 02 January 2020

I love that we still have the bets that MS will subside Xbox a lot to win the gen, same bet done on Xbox One.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari on 02 January 2020

I would hold a little the hype for all the MS bought or newly created studios until they release their games under MS. Expecting to much can lead to frustration.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LudicrousSpeed on 02 January 2020
goopy20 said:
shikamaru317 said:

The Initiative- AAA studio being built slowly with top tier talent from some of the best studios in the world. Believed to be working on a new AAA story driven 3rd person game, which is confirmed for announcement in 2020. Other 1st party studios are providing some development assistance while they staff up, since they don't want to rush the staffing process. 

Playground Studio 2- AAA RPG studio being built slowly with top tier talent. Believed to be working on a Fable Reboot.

Ninja Theory- AA studio capable of developing AAA games by using technology to make up for the developer deficit. They made Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice in 3 years with a team of just 20 people, and they are expanding that team for Hellblade 2. They also have a 3rd project other than Hellblade 2 and Bleeding Edge in development.

Obsidian- 1 AA team working on DLC for The Outer Worlds and a sequel to The Outer Worlds. 1 AAA team rumored to be working on a 3D Pillars of Eternity game that plays like Skyrim. 1 A team working on Grounded. 

Double Fine- One of the top indie/single A developers in the industry, with multiple hits under their belt. Unknown what they are working on besides Psychonauts 2, though it is highly likely that they have multiple games in development at once given their track record. 

Compulsion- AA studio. Their first game, We Happy Few, was shaky at best, but they are currently staffing up for a new IP, and they're hiring AAA talent for that project, including most recently 2 developers who formerly worked at Eidos Montreal on Deus Ex and Thief. 

Meanwhile they're rumored to be searching for more studios to acquire right now, with scouting teams spotted in Poland and Phil Spencer saying in interviews that he would like to get an Asian 1st party studio.

Doesn't Playground make the Forza Horizon games? Anyways, we will see. But lets be honest here, building new successful ip's to keep things fresh isn't exactly MS's strong suit. Since the original Xbox launched almost 2 decades ago, they have only managed to build 3 successful ip's (Halo, Gears and Forza) and they have been desperately trying to clamp onto them ever since, even when those franchises aren't that popular anymore. Compare that to Sony's studio's who are given the creative freedom to try new things and come up with games like: Horizon Zero Dawn, Spiderman, TLOU, Ghost of Tsushima etc.

I'm sure MS knows they will never beat Sony with their exclusives so it's a smart move to launch a more powerful console. Risky move for sure because if they launch $100 or more expensive than the ps5 and the extra performance doesn't really translate to that much better graphics, they are pretty much screwed. Also, if Sony's console does fit normally under most people's telly's it could also be a problem for MS. Still, if these rumors are true I have to applaud MS for having the balls to go all out on their next console's hardware.

What makes continuing successful franchises "desperate"? Sony does this with their big franchises, too. Nintendo does it with their big franchises. This year we'll see new Fast and Furious, Wonder Woman, and Bond movies. Are these studios "desperate"? Is Sony "desperate" for making new Ghostbusters, Venom, Hotel Transylvania, Bad Boys, etc film sequels? Hell aren't they making an Uncharted movie?

During the PS/PS2/PS3 era you might have a point about Sony and new IP's but that certainly wasn't the situation this gen. Both MS and Sony failed this gen when it came to new IP's, for different reasons. Was it laziness on Sony's part with their huge sales lead or are they just at a point where they'd rather their studios release one or two games per gen? Either way it's a far cry from past generations. I've mentioned on this forum how Sony's game output was way way down this gen and was told "quality over quantity" but again I'll ask, why not both? Sony used to deliver both. Now they're way down on quantity and even quality. They're obviously still ahead of MS simply thanks to studios like Naughty Dog and Insomniac's track records but people are talking about Sony's success building studios and they mention these please others like Guerrilla.. Sony didn't build these, they bought them.

MS can very easily beat Sony on exclusives because you never know what will happen from one gen to the next. Look at Nintendo and the Switch. Look at Sony's output this gen compared to past gens. I'm not saying it will happen, just that there's no guarantee of anything not happening.



NextGen_Gamer on 02 January 2020
setsunatenshi said:
NextGen_Gamer said:
Quick question: has either Microsoft or Sony ever confirmed they are using 7-nm for their next-gen systems? I know that is the current "Navi" and "Zen 2" manufacturing node - but when Sony/MS release the next consoles in Holiday 2020, TSMC's 5-nm process node will already be in mass production and already have a MASSIVE product scale going on - Apple's A14 in next year's iPhone release in Sep/Oct, which still sell in the 10 million+ range in the first weekend. That is far higher than any console launch. It would be riskier to go with a brand-new manufacturing node from the beginning, but using 5-nm right away would allow something like a 56 CU behemoth from Microsoft to launch at $399...

yes, it was confirmed by AMD's CEO Lisa Su at the Microsoft stage. They should be using the 7nm+ process

Ah, okay thank you for that. So that would be the 7-nm EUV process - which does improve a little on transistor density compared to the "regular" 7-nm one, but not enough for any kind of serious money savings on MS' part if the 56 CU GPU turns out to be true.



Otter on 02 January 2020
exclusive_console said:
Otter said:

No one should be confident in this IMO. Developers will decide on a game by game basis and I'm sure 7/10 times graphical fidelity will be prioritised over resolution & frame rate. The only way we'll be getting consistent 4k/60fps is if Xbox Series S is very weak & used as the base developement system. Hopefully this is not the case and developers start from PS5 as the base and worry about Xbox S later. 

I think we will see lots of 1440p/30fps and even some 1080p 30fps games where devs really want to push raytracing.

I think Microsoft is aiming for that native 4k benchmark with the X1X but framerate will very.

I am pretty sure they will not go 1080P. May be checkerboard or some other solution. But I expect most will be 4K as that is nice way to advertise next gen. AMD first time ray tracing implementation is not going to be anything special either. I agree that devs will decide.

Most will be 4k at first only because we will be looking at cross gen games which are built to run on PS4/Xbox One at 900/1080p, after that I think its highly unlikely.

Ultimately you do not need games to be native 4k to market the system as a 4k system, we have proof of this in PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. PS4 Pro barely ever hits 4k and the majority of 3rd party Xbox One X games miss native 4k too. Stunning graphics trumps pixel counts in terms of marketing what next gen is about, even Hellblade 2's trailer was not a native 4k pixel count because cinematic presentation was more important.

We've seen it already with the pro systems, but performance modes will be even more common next gen where resolution is either locked at 1080p or made dynamic (going as low as 1080p) in order to hit 60fps.

Also as far as Raytracing goes we've already seen Metro exodus show how ray traced global illumination can have a much stronger visual impact than the selective reflection we see in BF5, I think continued innovation in its application will surprise people once its actually part of the console landscape

Last edited by Otter - on 02 January 2020

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Otter on 02 January 2020

Also arguing about studios/exclusives doesn't make sense

Its an entirely subjective thing (doesnt matter how many studios x or y own) and people have had a whole generation to inform their platform of preference game wise. For everyone who has loved sonys offerings, they will get a PS5. For everyone who loved Microsofts, they will get an Xbox X. No early adopter with strong preferences and relationships with existing IPs is going to be swayed by E3 trailers for games which won't come out for another 2 years.



goopy20 on 02 January 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

Doesn't Playground make the Forza Horizon games? Anyways, we will see. But lets be honest here, building new successful ip's to keep things fresh isn't exactly MS's strong suit. Since the original Xbox launched almost 2 decades ago, they have only managed to build 3 successful ip's (Halo, Gears and Forza) and they have been desperately trying to clamp onto them ever since, even when those franchises aren't that popular anymore. Compare that to Sony's studio's who are given the creative freedom to try new things and come up with games like: Horizon Zero Dawn, Spiderman, TLOU, Ghost of Tsushima etc.

I'm sure MS knows they will never beat Sony with their exclusives so it's a smart move to launch a more powerful console. Risky move for sure because if they launch $100 or more expensive than the ps5 and the extra performance doesn't really translate to that much better graphics, they are pretty much screwed. Also, if Sony's console does fit normally under most people's telly's it could also be a problem for MS. Still, if these rumors are true I have to applaud MS for having the balls to go all out on their next console's hardware.

What makes continuing successful franchises "desperate"? Sony does this with their big franchises, too. Nintendo does it with their big franchises. This year we'll see new Fast and Furious, Wonder Woman, and Bond movies. Are these studios "desperate"? Is Sony "desperate" for making new Ghostbusters, Venom, Hotel Transylvania, Bad Boys, etc film sequels? Hell aren't they making an Uncharted movie?

During the PS/PS2/PS3 era you might have a point about Sony and new IP's but that certainly wasn't the situation this gen. Both MS and Sony failed this gen when it came to new IP's, for different reasons. Was it laziness on Sony's part with their huge sales lead or are they just at a point where they'd rather their studios release one or two games per gen? Either way it's a far cry from past generations. I've mentioned on this forum how Sony's game output was way way down this gen and was told "quality over quantity" but again I'll ask, why not both? Sony used to deliver both. Now they're way down on quantity and even quality. They're obviously still ahead of MS simply thanks to studios like Naughty Dog and Insomniac's track records but people are talking about Sony's success building studios and they mention these please others like Guerrilla.. Sony didn't build these, they bought them.

MS can very easily beat Sony on exclusives because you never know what will happen from one gen to the next. Look at Nintendo and the Switch. Look at Sony's output this gen compared to past gens. I'm not saying it will happen, just that there's no guarantee of anything not happening.

Not really man. The only franchises Sony has kept alive are GT and GOW. All their other exclusives have been pretty fresh across console generations. I mean if ND was owned by MS they would probably still be making Jack & Daxter games but instead they moved on and came up with amazing new franchises. Like I said: Horizon Zero Dawn, TLOU, Spiderman, Ghost of Tsushima, Dreams, Days Gone etc. are all brand new ip's that Sony can build on next gen. Now ask yourself which brand new AAA ip's MS has build, this and previous gen, that they can really build on in the future? I do agree that the quantity from Sony's studios this gen was a bit disappointing but the quality was pretty great, though. 

The difference with Sony and MS is that MS doesn't like to take risks and try new things. That's why they are so predictable and why people are losing interest in their exclusives. Hell, we've had 7 Forza games this generation lol.  



HollyGamer on 02 January 2020
Conina said:
HollyGamer said:

actually the gap between 9.2 to 12 teraflop are around 28 to 30 % less then PS4 pro to Xbox One X 42%

Trust me we will not see the same thing with PS5 and Xbox 12 because both will be using the same CPU that rid all of the bottle neck and developer have many technique like VRS (variable rate shading)  CRB , etc etc that will be available on both consoles. also having a faster GPU clock at 2 Ghz and the same bandwith  already have benefit for both  design and will ended  very close.

PS5 has a great  spec while Xbox X has slightly better sepc then PS5, unlike PS4 with great design and Xbox One is bad design choice. 

Trust you? But you told us several times that "GPU Nvidia 2080 super is bare minimum" to play PC versions of multiplatform games after the PS5/XSX launch.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241513&page=1

And now suddenly 30% less performance will not be noticeable and without going to Digital foundry nobody will be able to pint point the difference?

So why not also lower the bar for "bare minimum" on PC, if anything below 30% ain't noticeable? And there you can tweak even more with the settings, so 40% or even 50% less than a "GPU Nvidia 2080 super" should be okay, don't you think?

Trust me , Because why buy PC with cheap GPU, if you want PC then buy RTX 2080. Only idiot buy PC to achieved console graphic. Want to go cheap buy consoles or never  buy consoles. 



crissindahouse on 02 January 2020
HollyGamer said:
Conina said:

Trust you? But you told us several times that "GPU Nvidia 2080 super is bare minimum" to play PC versions of multiplatform games after the PS5/XSX launch.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241513&page=1

And now suddenly 30% less performance will not be noticeable and without going to Digital foundry nobody will be able to pint point the difference?

So why not also lower the bar for "bare minimum" on PC, if anything below 30% ain't noticeable? And there you can tweak even more with the settings, so 40% or even 50% less than a "GPU Nvidia 2080 super" should be okay, don't you think?

Trust me , Because why buy PC with cheap GPU, if you want PC then buy RTX 2080. Only idiot buy PC to achieved console graphic. Want to go cheap buy consoles or never  buy consoles. 

Because you can use your PC for more than just gaming? Because your friends are on PC? Because you like PC exclusives?  Or you prefer to decide the graphics settings on your own and don't need the developer to decide for you how important shadows, textures or whatever are for you? 

Or like 100 other reasons which you might not care about but other people do?



HollyGamer on 02 January 2020
crissindahouse said:
HollyGamer said:

Trust me , Because why buy PC with cheap GPU, if you want PC then buy RTX 2080. Only idiot buy PC to achieved console graphic. Want to go cheap buy consoles or never  buy consoles. 

Because you can use your PC for more than just gaming? Because your friends are on PC? Because you like PC exclusives?  Or you prefer to decide the graphics settings on your own and don't need the developer to decide for you how important shadows, textures or whatever are for you? 

Or like 100 other reasons which you might not care about but other people do?

The more reason to go with RTX 2080 or premium one, and I am agree with your statement . Nvidia will come out with new GPU in 2020 and the price of RTX card also will be cheaper. Both PS5 and Xbox X will be around RTX 2080 or 2070 .