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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Stagnant Working Class

If capitalism is responsible of any science-related change to our lives, it's the reason why the american guy at the end of the video is half the man than the american at the beginning.

It's also why Snoopy Jr. Jr. won't be able to have kids the traditional way. Unless the government does something about it, that is. It's highly unlikely that "anything goes" capitalism will fix it on its own, because there's big money to be made if every couple needs a fertility clinic whenever they want to have a kid.

Last edited by Player2 - on 14 July 2019

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NightlyPoe said:
the-pi-guy said:

Everybody understands the video is poking fun at the "hypocrisy" of the "liberals" who complain about capitalism while benefitting from the progress, the technological achievements and the wealth that it has given them.  

Just because someone disagrees with the conclusions of the videos, doesn't mean they don't understand that it's trying to make that point.   

Then why are you still misunderstanding it?

Up until like the very end when it takes a couple pot shots, it's pretty much focused on what is a common complaint:  That the working class is not keeping up while showing that the conditions are constantly improving.  People don't see how their lives are improving at such a rapid rate.

That conclusion is basically correct.  I'm sure you want to add some nuance that it could be better still, but the basic point is solid.  Things are getting better and they always have been getting better.  The feeling of being "left behind", which is not necessarily a liberal idea, in fact such populism is a major factor in the Trump coalition, is, as a whole, incorrect.

I'll tell you what. I agree: the lives of the working class has indeed improved. The majority of the population in the West no longer lives in abject poverty. 

So what? What's the next logical question? 



NightlyPoe said:

No it's not.

That's a line in the Declaration of Independence.  A document that didn't create any new laws.

Yes you are correct.  

I was pointing it out, not because I thought it created a law, but because it was something that was the founding father's would have intended.  

NightlyPoe said:

My post and yours don't even match up.  If you want that answered, scroll up.  I don't feel like going in circles on this subject.

Well firstly I never said anything about your post.  I was asking whether you agreed with it or not.  

I am trying to get clarification to see what fundamental differences you think there are between my explanation and yours.  Both explanations mention that people don't realize the improvements in their lives.  



NightlyPoe said:
Fallawful said:

I'll tell you what. I agree: the lives of the working class has indeed improved. The majority of the population in the West no longer lives in abject poverty. 

So what? What's the next logical question? 

It's just breaking down a myth.  The next question is then one that can be asked without the myth being a part of it.

The myth's been broken. Ask the question. 



NightlyPoe said:
Chrkeller said:

But it isn't a myth entirely, but rather is driven by specificity in terms of end market. 

You aren't actually disputing that it's a myth.  Just trying to distract with other things.  Namely...

"Things aren't getting worse because cell phones" has nothing to do with college continually becoming out of reach financially.

Government interference and the bloating of the bureaucracy on campus are causing that issue.

College is an area where we need more capitalism injected into the system, not less.  There's absolutely no reason why college shouldn't be getting cheaper as more people join as it would in practically any other market.

Same goes for medical expenses.

Too complex to even begin to untangle in a thread where people can't even get the point of a video without immediately rushing off to a separate subject.

However, medicine is also improving with each passing year as well.

People having cell phones has nothing to do with the income gap increasing exponentially.

Pfft, the income gap is the most childish complaint of all.  "Someone else has something and therefore I must be deprived."

Wanting to improve those areas isn't a bad idea, because "cell phones."

Again, not the point of the video.

Additionally, and this is what makes the video beyond stupid, the same "logic" can be applied to China.  China's general population has more technology in the home today when compared to 100 years ago.  Proof communism works, am I right???

Really man?  You're going to use the economic basket case that was communist China?  An economy that couldn't even figure out how to farm?

Communist China was an abject failure.  They're communist in name only these days and are really a state capitalist economy.

Technology is one aspect of "being better off" and cannot be used to extrapolate to a completely unrelated metric.  That is like me performing a biologic survey, I count the number of birds and conclude the reptiles are healthy....

That is literally what you've done this entire post.

Your entire post in shockingly inaccurate and objectively wrong on all accounts.  Never thought it was possible to have so many errors in a single post.



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In terms of if health is a protected right, something to consider:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Welfare definition: the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.



NightlyPoe said:
Fallawful said:

I'll tell you what. I agree: the lives of the working class has indeed improved. The majority of the population in the West no longer lives in abject poverty. 

So what? What's the next logical question? 

It's just breaking down a myth.  The next question is then one that can be asked without the myth being a part of it.

Except the video literally doesn't demonstrate nor validate anything related to economics systems, good or bad.  The video literally only shows technology moving forward over years, and concludes people have it better because capitalism.  Two issues:  

1) Technology moves forwards for all countries.  Even third world countries have more technology today than 100 years ago.  So technology singularly isn't a capitalist metric.  It is a metric that has always evolved, heck technology moved forward before this country was even founded via the wheel, bridges, boats, aqueducts, etc.  Technology is absolutely not a metric of how well our system is working for the masses.      

2) Technology is a singular metric, not a comprehensive metric.  It doesn't speak to a wide variety of other metrics that would comprehensively determine how well an economic system is.  Glaringly omitted is social class mobility between generations, which is a far better metric than if phone technology has improved since 1906.     

Which is why the video is literally for morons who can't think for themselves and only want to have their bias confirmed.  

Edit

In case you actually want to read and educate yourself on a exceptionally complex topic, as opposed to believing a 2 minute video explains economic complexity in meaningful detail.  

http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 14 July 2019

NightlyPoe said:

I can assure you that Jefferson was no fan of an expansive central government.

See above.

I know Jefferson wasn't.  Some of the other founding father's were.

>See above.  

The only difference seems to be that you think that's what the video is solely about.  Simply busting the myth >It's just breaking down a myth

Despite the fact, that literally the entire first quarter of the video is about someone criticizing capitalism as an unfair system.  



It isn't possible to point anything out to those who are not interested in learning.



Unwilling to learn is the opposite of convenient. Which is why we are on page 8 and you are parroting the same nonsense as page 1. Have fun with that, I'm off to play DQ Builders 2 and some MHW.