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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Stagnant Working Class

Mnementh on 23 July 2019
Immersiveunreality said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

That's not a proof, that's an opinion - and a hitpiece.

But if you think governmental involvement is so bad for healthcare, then how come everywhere else in the world where the government handles the healthcare, healthcare is significantly cheaper?

Have a look at this, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_system#International_comparisons

The US are last by a country mile in every single category. The only category they are leading, is the pricetag - as in, they're by far the most expensive.

Or how about this here:

US citizens have to pay much more for their healthcare even by purchase parity compared every other nation. And the gap just keeps growing.

Healthcare in the US is not working not because of governmental involvement, but because Republicans continually torpedo every resolution and water them down if they can. Their problem right now is that Obamacare is too popular to repeal without murdering the party, so they just leave it as is. But otherwise they certainly would have repealed it already. They cut coverage where they can not because it helps the patients, but the healthcare lobby who pays them millions and rake in billions due to less coverage.

Also, just consider this: If you're an insurer, do you want to pay for a vaccine or prefer not to, as the statistics say the chance that you get that infection are below 1%? Do you want to cover preventive care or look at the statistics, which say that less than 1% get seriously sick? Or do you want to cover those things, but not the possible less than 1% chance of serious illness?

That's how purely private healthcare works: They cut out their costs so much that they also cut down the benefits for most people who can't afford to pay several extras. They cherry-pick what they cover, and on top of that have their own hospitals, so you just can't go to any hospital, either. You have to go to their hospital to get your coverage.

Also, just think about this: If you travel to the US from most European countries, you need to pay for a travel healthcare which covers flight back in case of illness. Because flying you back over the pond on a stretcher in a special plane is much cheaper than the healthcare in the US. And that rule got included by popular demand from frequent US travelers.

Do you take in account that a lot of european citizens firstly take a pretty big cut on their wages for unemployment/retirement and health insurance....and that is not included in that graph or is it?

I mean on top of higher taxes all included i pay more than the highest amount on that graph and i do not have a very high payed job in Europe,some countries here are way more expensive than the US and it does look like you guys have a bit more money on the side on average not to mention that the people i know that worked in the US got payed a decent amount more than they got in this country for doing the same work.

Sacrifices will need to be made to have a decent healthcaresystem for everyone and more cuts on wages might happen,but i do support a good healthcare for the US ofcourse!

It is included in the graph, because it pretty much everything europeans pay for health care in most countries, additional payments for medicine or treatments are unusual and often negligable if present. So the cost in the graph would be below Chile or so, if these loan cuts wouldn't have been included.



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CrazyGamer2017 on 23 July 2019
LuccaCardoso1 said:
Whoa, what a groundbreaking idea this is.

I don't think anyone is advocating for the end of capitalism. At least not any relevant group. What people are actually advocating for is a more equal capitalism. A capitalism where the top 1% doesn't hold 50% of the wealth. A capitalism where people don't die because they made the mistake of getting sick and not being able to pay for the cure. A capitalism where everyone can get well-educated and a capitalism where we don't destroy the planet we live in. A capitalism where you don't get punished for being something you didn't choose to be.

The phrase "capitalism made our lives better" is also only true for portion of the population. I bet the people who have to skip meals because they don't have money to buy them don't agree with that. Neither do the people who were forced into dictatorships because another country wanted cheap oil.

I mean, it's great that the middle class in the United States has access to healthcare, education and comfort. What these people you criticize are trying to do is granting that for every human being.

Except capitalism is by definition predatory. Speaking of a more equal capitalism is as saying, nazism should be more humane or when tigers catch smaller animals to eat them, they should do it in a nicer way... It's IMPOSSIBLE.

Capitalism is the problem. You can't tell an elite with a multi-billion dollars idea that he should carry out his idea in a more fair way that will benefit everyone cause that's not why he cares to carry out his idea, if he did it with a more humane and fair approach where everyone would benefit, even the lower class workers, first he'd make way less money as the product would cost more to be developed (by paying everyone fairly) and second that would be sharing and not capitalizing in other words it would be ideologically closer to communism than capitalism proper.

I personally advocate for the end of capitalism because on top of being inherently unfair and morally wrong it also is the tool that helps destroy the environment. But the truth is that humans are in my opinion incapable of creating a fair system where no one is left behind so in a way we deserve capitalism cause we are no better.



RaptorChrist on 23 July 2019
Pemalite said:
Either way... The evidence says that universal healthcare is cheaper... And provides higher quality care, It's blatantly that simple, there isn't even a debate to be had on this point anymore unless you are living in blatant ignorance.

As for Minimum wage... If someone works flipping burgers and earns $19 an hour, then someone who works in say... Carpentry are going to be earning even more than that as they are viewed as a more valuable worker.
And considering that there are 10's of millions of Americans on minimum wage... If they got a big minimum wage increase, then spending will increase across the low-income earners... Meaning more economic activity, companies profit, government gets taxes... And so on.

Higher minimum wages also means that people can get out of poverty, afford to further their education, gives them more opportunities in life and become successful...

A stagnant minimum wage means that over time people actually earn less... As a dollar actually ends up depreciating in value over time... Which isn't actually a good thing... No one should need 4-5 jobs to make ends meet, that's not a good thing.

I often ponder about the impacts of drastic changes to the minimum wage. People in this world are too greedy. Or at the very least, Americans are too greedy (as I've never been anywhere else). So what would happen if there was no minimum wage? How much would McDonalds be paying it's workers. Why is it that Americans put up with such low wages and why is it that people need this sort of government intervention in the form of policing the minimum amount of money that one is to be paid. I think I understand why, but am moreso disturbed that this is the reality we live in.

I live near Chicago, and recently the minimum wage in the city has been set up such that by 2025 it will be $15 per hour. I think right now it's $12 per hour.

I'm not super big into politics, but if little 'ol me had control over things, I would think that taxing the upper 1% would solve many more of our problems. It's astonishing how many loopholes there are such that some of the biggest companies in the world oftentimes owe zero dollars on taxes at the end of the year.

I would imagine that the solution to the problem is simple, but passing laws to put said solution into motion is the difficult part, as the wealthy are using their dollars to keep things the way they are (or make things more lopsided). In a majority rules system, why is the majority getting screwed by such a small percentage of people? Does every member of congress get bribed by large corporations?

What sort of shenanigans went on to allow for net neutrality to be tossed away...



Bofferbrauer2 on 23 July 2019
RaptorChrist said:
Pemalite said:
Either way... The evidence says that universal healthcare is cheaper... And provides higher quality care, It's blatantly that simple, there isn't even a debate to be had on this point anymore unless you are living in blatant ignorance.

As for Minimum wage... If someone works flipping burgers and earns $19 an hour, then someone who works in say... Carpentry are going to be earning even more than that as they are viewed as a more valuable worker.
And considering that there are 10's of millions of Americans on minimum wage... If they got a big minimum wage increase, then spending will increase across the low-income earners... Meaning more economic activity, companies profit, government gets taxes... And so on.

Higher minimum wages also means that people can get out of poverty, afford to further their education, gives them more opportunities in life and become successful...

A stagnant minimum wage means that over time people actually earn less... As a dollar actually ends up depreciating in value over time... Which isn't actually a good thing... No one should need 4-5 jobs to make ends meet, that's not a good thing.

I often ponder about the impacts of drastic changes to the minimum wage. People in this world are too greedy. Or at the very least, Americans are too greedy (as I've never been anywhere else). So what would happen if there was no minimum wage? How much would McDonalds be paying it's workers. Why is it that Americans put up with such low wages and why is it that people need this sort of government intervention in the form of policing the minimum amount of money that one is to be paid. I think I understand why, but am moreso disturbed that this is the reality we live in.

I live near Chicago, and recently the minimum wage in the city has been set up such that by 2025 it will be $15 per hour. I think right now it's $12 per hour.

I'm not super big into politics, but if little 'ol me had control over things, I would think that taxing the upper 1% would solve many more of our problems. It's astonishing how many loopholes there are such that some of the biggest companies in the world oftentimes owe zero dollars on taxes at the end of the year.

I would imagine that the solution to the problem is simple, but passing laws to put said solution into motion is the difficult part, as the wealthy are using their dollars to keep things the way they are (or make things more lopsided). In a majority rules system, why is the majority getting screwed by such a small percentage of people? Does every member of congress get bribed by large corporations?

What sort of shenanigans went on to allow for net neutrality to be tossed away...

The problem with that is that the Republicans would roll them back as soon as they could. Pretty much every Republican president since WW2 cut the taxes to the rich. But they can't do that with a minimum wage, as that would be political suicide and pretty much considered as stealing from the poor.

So, if you can't do it the way you should, at least they try the next best thing.



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Pemalite on 25 July 2019
RaptorChrist said:

I often ponder about the impacts of drastic changes to the minimum wage. People in this world are too greedy. Or at the very least, Americans are too greedy (as I've never been anywhere else). So what would happen if there was no minimum wage? How much would McDonalds be paying it's workers. Why is it that Americans put up with such low wages and why is it that people need this sort of government intervention in the form of policing the minimum amount of money that one is to be paid. I think I understand why, but am moreso disturbed that this is the reality we live in.

I live near Chicago, and recently the minimum wage in the city has been set up such that by 2025 it will be $15 per hour. I think right now it's $12 per hour.

I'm not super big into politics, but if little 'ol me had control over things, I would think that taxing the upper 1% would solve many more of our problems. It's astonishing how many loopholes there are such that some of the biggest companies in the world oftentimes owe zero dollars on taxes at the end of the year.

I would imagine that the solution to the problem is simple, but passing laws to put said solution into motion is the difficult part, as the wealthy are using their dollars to keep things the way they are (or make things more lopsided). In a majority rules system, why is the majority getting screwed by such a small percentage of people? Does every member of congress get bribed by large corporations?

What sort of shenanigans went on to allow for net neutrality to be tossed away...

Higher Minimum wage means more people in a higher tax bracket and thus potentially more tax revenue anyway.
A higher minimum wage isn't a bad thing... Especially as the low/medium wealth tax brackets tend to be where the majority reside.

So if anything, higher minimum wage should negate the requirement of more taxes if a Government is trying to claw more revenue in.

What I really find baffling when I went to the United States was this "tipping" thing. - Here in Australia we don't do that, our wages are high enough where such a thing isn't needed... And high quality service is generally expected from the get go.



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Bofferbrauer2 on 27 July 2019
the-pi-guy said:
Pemalite said:

Higher Minimum wage means more people in a higher tax bracket and thus potentially more tax revenue anyway.
A higher minimum wage isn't a bad thing... Especially as the low/medium wealth tax brackets tend to be where the majority reside.

So if anything, higher minimum wage should negate the requirement of more taxes if a Government is trying to claw more revenue in.

What I really find baffling when I went to the United States was this "tipping" thing. - Here in Australia we don't do that, our wages are high enough where such a thing isn't needed... And high quality service is generally expected from the get go.

Tipping in the US is horrid.  Workers who are expecting tips can actually be paid a much lower minimum wage than anyone else.  The federal law is less than $3/hour.  They're expected to make up the other minimum wage ($7.25) from tips.  

I think a law would need to be passed to get rid of it, since it's so ingrained in the culture here.  

Abd since it's so ingrained, good luck on getting such a law to pass the instances.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

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