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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What Nintendo systems has Switch already surpassed for you?

Soundwave said:

Nintendo actually doesn't get enough credit for some of the 3rd party monster moves they did make with the GameCube. They cut a deal for the entire freaking Resident Evil franchise to be exclusive. At the time, Resident Evil was probably like the 2nd or 3rd biggest 3rd party IP ... maybe even first? That would be like Nintendo getting I dunno, Call of Duty exclusive today. They also cut deals for Metal Gear Solid Remake, got a Final Fantasy game, repaired their relationship with Namco to the point where Namco would work on Nintendo games, Capcom 5 to go with the Resident Evil games, EA would even market with the GameCube logo and Mario characters in games like SSX and what not. 

They did quite a bit. It just wasn't enough. Because Sony had a huge headstart, they could leverage better deals with 3rd parties and Nintendo was kind of in a weird awkward spot where MS probably would also offer more money than Nintendo. 

The goal shouldn't have been the beat Sony, Sony was too much of a juggernaut, the goal should have been to bury the XBox before it could get momentum (the same way the PS2 shit on the GCN with its headstart). If they could have carved out their place as the no.2 console they probably could have hit their sales target for the GameCube which Nintendo stated was somewhere in the range of 40-50 million units. 

The Wii U analogy doesn't really work because the Wii U was a full generation behind the PS4 in tech without the fancy gimmick of a controller craze it was a very unappealing, outdated system next to the much more appealing PS4. The GameCube was better hardware than the PS2 though. Unfortunately the XBox was even better hardware than probably the both of them (PS2 and GCN) and was easy to develop for also, so it stole a lot of the GCN's thunder. If it was just PS2 vs GCN, I think over time people would have been more appreciative of the GameCube's strengths versus the PS2. 

I don't think Apple gave two shits about gaming when designing the iPhone honestly. They didn't even highlight gaming at all when they unveiled it. Gaming is just something that developed on the iPhone later on as it made sense in the App ecosystem and developers themselves kinda took the intiative to start making games, not really something Apple themselves was pushing for. Once they realized it was a revenue source, of course they were fine with it. In fact one of the most famous moments in Jobs' iconic iPhone reveal event in 2007 was taking a giant shit on resistive touchscreen devices (which is what PDAs and the DS were) by saying basically "you don't need that stupid touch pen". 

If the iPhone had been designed for gaming, really a trackball (small one) in place of the home button would've been much better for gaming. The main thing that sucks about smartphone gaming is the lack of a physical directional input. On-screen buttons are OK (not ideal, but you can get used to that) ... but a touchscreen really can't replace a physical directional input for character controls.  

Nintendo didn't cut a deal Shinji Mikami decided to exclusively switch to Nintendo's platform if Nintendo cut a deal do you think RE4 would have gotten a PS2 version? People are still waiting for the mythical Bayonetta 2 on other platforms Mikami had grievances with Sony, RE wasn't the second biggest franchise the series at that point was in decline that's probably why Capcom didn't bat an eye at all with Mikami's decision because they thought RE was on it's way out even watch the RE4 developers interview Capcom developers didn't even want to work on the games anymore RE4 is what turned the series around and saved it.

Apple very much did as the DS execution showed them something that is standard for all smart phones, versatile user friendly interface, it gave apple a tried and tested foundation for their own concepts as before the iPhone their smart phone attempts were a collaboration with Motorola in the iTunes Phone released in 2005 and was no different from other phones in design the DS' success caught everyone's eye with it's screen usage due to it's interface which inspired a rethink they then employed the new concept on the iPod with the iPod Touch and iPhone this is what setting the groundwork does as you don't have to be aiming at the same market to be inspired by an idea Nintendo weren't thinking about phones but inadvertently set the tone for a new era to come in as they had even created the template for the tech and also the perfect market for it.



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N64's problem was it barely had any games. There were constant game draughts and like one or two games a month was the norm. Now yes it had the absolute best, industry defining games, but the lqck of quantity and diversity made it a hard sell for many people compared to PlayStation. I had N64 and personally I'm very glad i had it and not PlayStation else i would've missed out on a significant part of gaming history and would have had a hell of a lot fewer afternoons with friends piled into my basement for gaming. Two of my friends in the neighborhood had PS and our home was by far the normal place to go to game. Only real regret of not having PS was missing out on the RPGs.

Third parties straight up hardcore abandoned Nintendo on the N64, but if you wanted the absolute best game experiences you had to get N64.

GameCube fixed what caused all the developers to leave Nintendo (got rid of cartridges), but it was too late at that point. They found their home on PlayStation and the PlayStation brand was already huge. Nintendo did bring back a lot of AAA third party support with GC (only to then lose it permanently by going with innovation over graphics with the Wii) but a lot of it was multiplatform, so you could go to any system for those games. That was the one generation where all three systems were close enough in power to make it easy to port between them all so there were plenty of games on all three systems. But PS2 got the majority of the third party exclusives.

And Nintendo and Rare that gen, unlike with the N64, were not putting out a bunch of industry defining experiences. Sure you had great first party games on GC, but it wasnt a top lineup we still marvel at today like N64 had. Prime and Melee stand out historically but thats not close to what stands out on N64. So while GameCube got a lot more games the standouts didn't stand out nearly as much. Plus you had Xbox competing for the title of party system (which N64 easily had taken) with Halo, Halo 2, and Xbox live. Nintendo sort of found themselves cornered suddenly between the third party monster PlayStation and the new multiplayer/online Xbox.

GameCube did not have the bad game droughts, but if you already had a PlayStation 2, which most people did, You were only going to get a GameCube if you were a big Nintendo fan.

Also many of Nintendo's main IP on GC kinda got looked down on conpared to the nostalgia and groundbreaking experiences from the N64. MK:DD, in it's day, was considered much worse than MK64, though I think certainly personally and maybe generally now DD is considered the better game. Sunshine was looked down on and only later on did people start viewing it in a somewhat improved light. Wind Waker was lambasted for going with cel shaded graphics rather than giving people a realistic looking Zelda on the first system when fairly advanced 3D graphics were available, but WW was gorgeous and later on people gave WW its due and it is now a beloved game. There was just a lot less buzz on many of Nintendo's big games and poor critical reception which only was reversed after years had passed. Meanwhile Xbox had Halo 1 & 2 and Playstation had just about everything.



Slownenberg said:

N64's problem was it barely had any games. There were constant game draughts and like one or two games a month was the norm. Now yes it had the absolute best, industry defining games, but the lqck of quantity and diversity made it a hard sell for many people compared to PlayStation. I had N64 and personally I'm very glad i had it and not PlayStation else i would've missed out on a significant part of gaming history and would have had a hell of a lot fewer afternoons with friends piled into my basement for gaming. Two of my friends in the neighborhood had PS and our home was by far the normal place to go to game. Only real regret of not having PS was missing out on the RPGs.

Third parties straight up hardcore abandoned Nintendo on the N64, but if you wanted the absolute best game experiences you had to get N64.

GameCube fixed what caused all the developers to leave Nintendo (got rid of cartridges), but it was too late at that point. They found their home on PlayStation and the PlayStation brand was already huge. Nintendo did bring back a lot of AAA third party support with GC (only to then lose it permanently by going with innovation over graphics with the Wii) but a lot of it was multiplatform, so you could go to any system for those games. That was the one generation where all three systems were close enough in power to make it easy to port between them all so there were plenty of games on all three systems. But PS2 got the majority of the third party exclusives.

And Nintendo and Rare that gen, unlike with the N64, were not putting out a bunch of industry defining experiences. Sure you had great first party games on GC, but it wasnt a top lineup we still marvel at today like N64 had. Prime and Melee stand out historically but thats not close to what stands out on N64. So while GameCube got a lot more games the standouts didn't stand out nearly as much. Plus you had Xbox competing for the title of party system (which N64 easily had taken) with Halo, Halo 2, and Xbox live. Nintendo sort of found themselves cornered suddenly between the third party monster PlayStation and the new multiplayer/online Xbox.

GameCube did not have the bad game droughts, but if you already had a PlayStation 2, which most people did, You were only going to get a GameCube if you were a big Nintendo fan.

Also many of Nintendo's main IP on GC kinda got looked down on conpared to the nostalgia and groundbreaking experiences from the N64. MK:DD, in it's day, was considered much worse than MK64, though I think certainly personally and maybe generally now DD is considered the better game. Sunshine was looked down on and only later on did people start viewing it in a somewhat improved light. Wind Waker was lambasted for going with cel shaded graphics rather than giving people a realistic looking Zelda on the first system when fairly advanced 3D graphics were available, but WW was gorgeous and later on people gave WW its due and it is now a beloved game. There was just a lot less buzz on many of Nintendo's big games and poor critical reception which only was reversed after years had passed. Meanwhile Xbox had Halo 1 & 2 and Playstation had just about everything.

N64's library should be have had all the Final Fantasy games (exclusive too), Dragon Quest VII, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil 1/2/3, Final Fantasy Tactics, Tekken 2/3, etc. etc. to go with Mario 64, Zelda: OoT, GoldenEye 007. 

Nintendo was insane and needed to be talked out of the 64DD also being a dumb idea. Just keep the cartridge slot so Miyamoto can have his Mario 64, and the CD drive can then keep your 3rd party business. CD drive costs would collapse by 1996 anyway, just a stupid decision to look off it. 

Losing 3rd party support aside from just a gamer's POV was monumentally stupid for Nintendo as a business. As a business a 3rd party game you get a $10 licensing fee cut for doing nothing, so by missing out on like 700 games, and each individual copy giving Nintendo a $10 cut even if it sold or not (that's the 3rd party's problem, not Nintendo's) ... Nintendo probably cost themselves a billion dollars or more in lost revenue for nothing. 

The Super Famicom (SNES) had 1448 games released for it. The N64 only had 388 ... that was a ridiculous drop. It's actually kind of amazing the N64 sold as well as it did, it basically matched the SNES sales in North America + Europe but still they should've sold 100 million systems that gen IMO. 

And yeah for GameCube ... I'd say first off cut out that Fisher Price bullshit styling, if it has to be a cube, then at least make it look cool, mettalic with some LED lighting or something, no purple. Have it ready to launch in November 2000 with Zelda: MM, Perfect Dark, Paper Mario as your launch titles and some 3rd party multiplats. Lose the mini-disc thing too the GameCube disc tray is large enough to accomodate full sized discs anyway. Stop trying to be different for the sake of being different. 

Honestly maybe it would've been smarter for Nintendo to just accept a money deal with Microsoft to use Windows OS (like the Dreamcast did) that might've placated them enough to not even bother with the XBox at all. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 01 December 2022

Slownenberg said:

 Nintendo did bring back a lot of AAA third party support with GC (only to then lose it permanently by going with innovation over graphics with the Wii) 

Not quite permanently; Switch has plenty of AAA third party titles, thanks to utilising modern hardware with enough oomph to run the games and standardized, off the shelf chips instead of semi-custom or outdated architecture.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023. (And over 130 million lifetime)

curl-6 said:
Slownenberg said:

 Nintendo did bring back a lot of AAA third party support with GC (only to then lose it permanently by going with innovation over graphics with the Wii) 

Not quite permanently; Switch has plenty of AAA third party titles, thanks to utilising modern hardware with enough oomph to run the games and standardized, off the shelf chips instead of semi-custom or outdated architecture.

And it's for the best really. 

You get good tech for a good price, even know I bet Nintendo's hardware engineers are kinda miffed to be cut out of the process a bit, you're not going to out engineer Nvidia or AMD anyway. 

The GameCube was a seriously impressive chip for 2000 though, I remember at the time people falling over themselves declaring PS2 a super computer and how Nintendo and Sega could not even come close to competing, but Nintendo sure enough learned from every mistake on the N64 and made a genuinely very nice piece of kit for an affordable price. PS2 was the worse hardware for sure. 

The other thing is even though GCN was easier to program for, it didn't seem to shorten development times at all, lol, Nintendo seemed to always be behind the ball development wise, they really should have just the N64 a bit short or repositioned the N64 as more of a kids console from 1999 onwards with things like the Pikachu N64 and Pokemon games and moved Zelda: MM and Perfect Dark to the GameCube. 

Mario 64 team in particular really needed a kick in the ass. How does 5 years pass from Mario 64 and you still don't have a Mario game ready for N64 launch? Just unacceptable. 



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Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Not quite permanently; Switch has plenty of AAA third party titles, thanks to utilising modern hardware with enough oomph to run the games and standardized, off the shelf chips instead of semi-custom or outdated architecture.

And it's for the best really. 

You get good tech for a good price, even know I bet Nintendo's hardware engineers are kinda miffed to be cut out of the process a bit, you're not going to out engineer Nvidia or AMD anyway. 

The GameCube was a seriously impressive chip for 2000 though, I remember at the time people falling over themselves declaring PS2 a super computer and how Nintendo and Sega could not even come close to competing, but Nintendo sure enough learned from every mistake on the N64 and made a genuinely very nice piece of kit for an affordable price. PS2 was the worse hardware for sure. 

The other thing is even though GCN was easier to program for, it didn't seem to shorten development times at all, lol, Nintendo seemed to always be behind the ball development wise, they really should have just the N64 a bit short or repositioned the N64 as more of a kids console from 1999 onwards with things like the Pikachu N64 and Pokemon games and moved Zelda: MM and Perfect Dark to the GameCube. 

Mario 64 team in particular really needed a kick in the ass. How does 5 years pass from Mario 64 and you still don't have a Mario game ready for N64 launch? Just unacceptable. 

Yeah, the age of consoles being highly custom machines is pretty much over, and while it was cool to see what could be done with specialized designs, it is overall for the best.

Gamecube was indeed an impressive piece of hardware that outclassed the PS2; it just shows that graphics alone aren't a ticket to victory.

And yeah Nintendo makes great games but they can be painfully slow at doing so. That's why the Switch is such a winner; using standardized hardware that is easy to develop for allowed it to coax back enough third party support to pick up the slack between big first party releases and avoid droughts.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 01 December 2022

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023. (And over 130 million lifetime)

curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

And it's for the best really. 

You get good tech for a good price, even know I bet Nintendo's hardware engineers are kinda miffed to be cut out of the process a bit, you're not going to out engineer Nvidia or AMD anyway. 

The GameCube was a seriously impressive chip for 2000 though, I remember at the time people falling over themselves declaring PS2 a super computer and how Nintendo and Sega could not even come close to competing, but Nintendo sure enough learned from every mistake on the N64 and made a genuinely very nice piece of kit for an affordable price. PS2 was the worse hardware for sure. 

The other thing is even though GCN was easier to program for, it didn't seem to shorten development times at all, lol, Nintendo seemed to always be behind the ball development wise, they really should have just the N64 a bit short or repositioned the N64 as more of a kids console from 1999 onwards with things like the Pikachu N64 and Pokemon games and moved Zelda: MM and Perfect Dark to the GameCube. 

Mario 64 team in particular really needed a kick in the ass. How does 5 years pass from Mario 64 and you still don't have a Mario game ready for N64 launch? Just unacceptable. 

Yeah, the age of consoles being highly custom machines is pretty much over, and while it was cool to see what could be done with specialized designs, it is overall for the best.

Gamecube was indeed an impressive piece of hardware that outclassed the PS2; it just shows that graphics alone aren't a ticket to victory.

And yeah Nintendo makes great games but they can be painfully slow at doing so. That's why the Switch is such a winner; using standardized hardware that is easy to develop for allowed it to coax back enough third party support to pick up the slack between big first party releases and avoid droughts.

I think the N64 caused some kind of burn out internally at Nintendo. I remember reading one of the Mario 64 programmers quit programming after the game was finished because it just took such a toll. 

Or just bad luck I dunno. It sucks because N64 was really hard to develop for but Nintendo and Rare stepped up to do a superhuman job practically, then when they finally get a really great designed piece of kit in the GameCube, the software side lets them down. 

GameCube is accounting for time/price/power/ease of programming the finest hardware Nintendo has made though. The XBox was a bit more powerful but it also cost like double the amount to make. 

The big difference also I think today is there's an actual indie game scene. That didn't exist really for the N64 or Gamecube. The Switch has always had a flow of tons of indie games, that's just a benefit of the time era it exists in. It really has become like a third pillar of software, like the NES and SNES, the Switch always feels like there's new content coming constantly even when Nintendo isn't releasing much of anything. 

When the N64 had a drought ... lol it was reaaaaaaally a drought, like you'd be thinking "maybe I should rent War Gods from Blockbuster just to turn my N64 on" lol. Such a shame how Nintendo grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory with the N64, EAD and Rare were brilliant. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 01 December 2022

it's the 2º best Nintendo system ever, behind only Snes.



GoTY 2022:

Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah, the age of consoles being highly custom machines is pretty much over, and while it was cool to see what could be done with specialized designs, it is overall for the best.

Gamecube was indeed an impressive piece of hardware that outclassed the PS2; it just shows that graphics alone aren't a ticket to victory.

And yeah Nintendo makes great games but they can be painfully slow at doing so. That's why the Switch is such a winner; using standardized hardware that is easy to develop for allowed it to coax back enough third party support to pick up the slack between big first party releases and avoid droughts.

I think the N64 caused some kind of burn out internally at Nintendo. I remember reading one of the Mario 64 programmers quit programming after the game was finished because it just took such a toll. 

Or just bad luck I dunno. It sucks because N64 was really hard to develop for but Nintendo and Rare stepped up to do a superhuman job practically, then when they finally get a really great designed piece of kit in the GameCube, the software side lets them down. 

GameCube is accounting for time/price/power/ease of programming the finest hardware Nintendo has made though. The XBox was a bit more powerful but it also cost like double the amount to make. 

The big difference also I think today is there's an actual indie game scene. That didn't exist really for the N64 or Gamecube. The Switch has always had a flow of tons of indie games, that's just a benefit of the time era it exists in. 

When the N64 had a drought ... lol it was reaaaaaaally a drought, like you'd be thinking "maybe I should rent War Gods from Blockbuster just to turn my N64 on" lol. Such a shame how Nintendo grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory with the N64, EAD and Rare were brilliant. 

The indie scene definitely helps, though it's definitely more than just that, there are also plenty of AA and AAA games on Switch as well, since the hardware's capable of handling ports from PS4 and Xbone.

It helped the Switch a lot to be able to offer stuff like Witcher 3, Doom 2016/Eternal, Skyrim, Wolfenstein, Dying Light, It Takes Two, Nier Automata, Dragon Quest 11, Dark Souls, etc in addition to Nintendo games and indies.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023. (And over 130 million lifetime)

I think in Nintendo's eyes they did what they could with the GameCube

Exclusive Resident Evil series was a monstrous get.

Several more exclusives from Capcom (Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7, P.N. 03, etc.)

Exclusive Tales of Symphonia and Baten Kaitos RPGs from Namco.

Exclusive Metal Gear Solid game from Konami.

Exclusive Final Fantasy spin off game from Square.

Link in Soul Calibur 2.

Partnership with Sega and Namco and Nintendo to create the TRIFORCE Arcade boards

It must have been frustrating to get basically no traction. Sony had an iron lock on the main Final Fantasy series and there really wasn't anything Nintendo could do by that point.

They should have compromised with Squaresoft in 1995 and not let them leave for the Playstation and take Final Fantasy VII with them. They were so close too, just crazy that Yamauchi was so convinced of CD-ROM being bad. Even Nintendo themselves knew cartridges were a problematic format due to being very expensive, that's why they made the Famicom Disk Drive back in the 80s and the Famicom Disk Drive was actually supposed to be the only way Famicom/NES games would release in the future.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 01 December 2022