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Forums - Politics Discussion - Who Should Run For President on the Democratic Side?

Replicant said:
darkenergy said:

Unfortunately no matter what you say to these people they are brainwashed from the news media who spew propaganda bullshit for the oligarchs who really run the USA.

Yeah, that seems to be the case sometimes unfortunately. Naturally, the American people should be the ones shaping their own future without any interference from any other country, and I won't pretend that I know what's best for the US. The Scandinavian model may not be suitable (at least not without adjustments) but as a Dane I always struggle to see why some people hate the idea of creating better conditions for their fellow countrymen.

Snoopy said:

1. Don't worry it isn't sustainable for long. What you have going is only working in the short run. Which is why again a lot of the Nordic countries are leaning more right regarding politics lately. Also, if you are homeless it is usually due to mental issues rather than finance issues. America is one of the few countries where you don't have to work and still have a roof over your head, food, a tv, etc.

2.  Not all debt is bad as long as it makes you money and you can pay the interest. Which we can very easily. I have to find the article, but the profits from a few big tech companies alone can pay the interest on the debt. Another example is Donald Trump has a lot of debt in real estate but makes millions from it every year. Anyhow you better hope that America doesn't collapse because if it does you will be speaking Russian in no time. Also, I don't really listen to mainstream media, but independent media like Daily Wire for conservative views and TYT for liberal views. Then, I make my judgment.

3. I don't buy the 83% can't afford college argument. Anyone can get a loan to go to college and if they get a degree that is worth anything they should be able to pay it off in a few years. Also, there is more to education than just college. I had a friend recently who is making 75k a year after graduating from a coding boot camp and worked a year as a freelancer. There is also a lot of trades out there from construction, real estate, technology, etc. College is definitely not the end all be all.

1. People like you have been saying that since its inception 100 years ago. Our public AND private sectors are as strong as ever.

2. The US national debt is increasing $1 trillion a year since 2007. Interest is increasing rapidly and is likely to surpass military spending in 2023. At some point, the US has to address its debt. Being able to pay a rising interest won't be sustainable forever.
Regarding bold, I'm certainly not hoping for the US to collapse. Please don't confuse this as some kind of aversion to the US. Initially, I was just commenting on your "Danes don't like paying high taxes," remember? I've enjoyed my travels in the US, and the Americans I've met when traveling in Australia and Asia have been the best.

3. Many Americans do indeed get student loans but even though 85% work paid jobs while enrolled, many struggle to ever being able to repay.

1. Pretty sure most people don't even know where Denmark is so I think you're lying. Hell, the State I grew up in has a bigger population than Denmark four times over. How can your public sector and private sector be so strong, when we have to defend you all the time? Not to mention your GDP hasn't even hit HALF a trillion yet. One bad disaster and your country is ruined and you know it.

 

2. So? We can pay the interest of the debt without breaking a sweat. Also, people don't know that most of our debt is money we owe ourselves lol. Not to mention you neglect something called inflation.

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ugDU2qNcyg

 

3. Yes, they struggle because of 1. the federal government allows anyone to take loans out for any degree. So if a kid is willing to put himself thousands of dollars in debt for a liberal arts degree, why would a university lower the price? 2. Americans suck at saving money and investing. I know plenty of people who blew all their money, then when they were laid off/fired they went bankrupt and blamed America. However, speaking of college you can get degrees pretty cheap (~30k) actually if you know where to shop and look. For example, you can get rid of almost all your basic classes by going to straighterline.com for around ~2k.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 03 March 2019

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Snoopy said:
Replicant said:

1. People like you have been saying that since its inception 100 years ago. Our public AND private sectors are as strong as ever.

1. Pretty sure most people don't even know where Denmark is so I think you're lying.

Well, the whole world know that some americans can be pretty ignorant about the world (really strange as you also hold the view, that you can and should meddle in the business of every other country in the world, although knowing so few things about them), but this is really crazy. If you don't know where Denmark is, you should ask classics like Shakespeare. But he wasn't american either, so probably you ignore him too.

Most of europe has a health insurance for everyone for decades now. It works pretty well and many of the european economies are pretty strong. Most of europe has free college tuition for decades. Often we also pay poorer students a grant, so that they can get through education debt-free. And most european countries show higher level of education than the US. It all works for a long time, but suddenly americans say that can never work. They aren't interested in reality, they smear Bernie Sanders who basically wants stuff that works in europe for decades as a unrealistic dreamer. But the real dreamers are the ones closing their eyes for the real world, only because it is outside of their own country. You are saying that stuff like that can only work for a short time, while in reality that persists in most european countries over decades. You should go out more and learn about the world.

And about the thing with poor people and mental issues, there is some connection:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydKcaIE6O1k



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Snoopy said:
Replicant said:

Yeah, that seems to be the case sometimes unfortunately. Naturally, the American people should be the ones shaping their own future without any interference from any other country, and I won't pretend that I know what's best for the US. The Scandinavian model may not be suitable (at least not without adjustments) but as a Dane I always struggle to see why some people hate the idea of creating better conditions for their fellow countrymen.

1. People like you have been saying that since its inception 100 years ago. Our public AND private sectors are as strong as ever.

2. The US national debt is increasing $1 trillion a year since 2007. Interest is increasing rapidly and is likely to surpass military spending in 2023. At some point, the US has to address its debt. Being able to pay a rising interest won't be sustainable forever.
Regarding bold, I'm certainly not hoping for the US to collapse. Please don't confuse this as some kind of aversion to the US. Initially, I was just commenting on your "Danes don't like paying high taxes," remember? I've enjoyed my travels in the US, and the Americans I've met when traveling in Australia and Asia have been the best.

3. Many Americans do indeed get student loans but even though 85% work paid jobs while enrolled, many struggle to ever being able to repay.

1. Pretty sure most people don't even know where Denmark is so I think you're lying. Hell, the State I grew up in has a bigger population than Denmark four times over. How can your public sector and private sector be so strong, when we have to defend you all the time? Not to mention your GDP hasn't even hit HALF a trillion yet. One bad disaster and your country is ruined and you know it.

2. So? We can pay the interest of the debt without breaking a sweat. Also, people don't know that most of our debt is money we owe ourselves lol. Not to mention you neglect something called inflation.

3. Yes, they struggle because of 1. the federal government allows anyone to take loans out for any degree. So if a kid is willing to put himself thousands of dollars in debt for a liberal arts degree, why would a university lower the price? 2. Americans suck at saving money and investing. I know plenty of people who blew all their money, then when they were laid off/fired they went bankrupt and blamed America. However, speaking of college you can get degrees pretty cheap (~30k) actually if you know where to shop and look. For example, you can get rid of almost all your basic classes by going to straighterline.com for around ~2k.

1. You're saying that the country with a population of 325+ million people has a higher GDP than the country with a population of 5+ million people? Go figure.

2. No. I'm pretty sure most people know that. 30% of the US national debt is owned by foreign investors. You definitely don't want that to go over 50%. "lol"

3. Good job insulting your countrymen because they aren't as privileged as you. I'll take darkenergy's advice and end this pointless debate. I'm happy with the way things are in Denmark and you're happy with the way things are in the US. Wonderful.



I'd look forward to the candidate who has the balls (or cunt) to tell the US that the government minimum wage is a band-aid solution that's been left on way too long, and it's time to look at expanding and strengthening worker unions in order for the lower paying end of the labour market to properly heal.

As some have been saying, a mixed economy with elements of socialism and social democracy jives best with the technological direction. The number of routine jobs has drastically reduced in the Western world, and it has little to do with globalization, and everything to do with a drastic increase in automated technology. Non-routine jobs are next on the chopping block with the onset of AI advancement, Elon Musk's Open AI is already capable of writing articles with a few key phrases. How long before AI is capable of doing medical diagnostics 1000X more effective than a physician, corporate tear-downs, and accounting? We're not far off from that: the foundational technology is already there.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Snoopy said:
Replicant said:

Yeah, that seems to be the case sometimes unfortunately. Naturally, the American people should be the ones shaping their own future without any interference from any other country, and I won't pretend that I know what's best for the US. The Scandinavian model may not be suitable (at least not without adjustments) but as a Dane I always struggle to see why some people hate the idea of creating better conditions for their fellow countrymen.

1. People like you have been saying that since its inception 100 years ago. Our public AND private sectors are as strong as ever.

2. The US national debt is increasing $1 trillion a year since 2007. Interest is increasing rapidly and is likely to surpass military spending in 2023. At some point, the US has to address its debt. Being able to pay a rising interest won't be sustainable forever.
Regarding bold, I'm certainly not hoping for the US to collapse. Please don't confuse this as some kind of aversion to the US. Initially, I was just commenting on your "Danes don't like paying high taxes," remember? I've enjoyed my travels in the US, and the Americans I've met when traveling in Australia and Asia have been the best.

3. Many Americans do indeed get student loans but even though 85% work paid jobs while enrolled, many struggle to ever being able to repay.

1. Pretty sure most people don't even know where Denmark is so I think you're lying. Hell, the State I grew up in has a bigger population than Denmark four times over. How can your public sector and private sector be so strong, when we have to defend you all the time? Not to mention your GDP hasn't even hit HALF a trillion yet. One bad disaster and your country is ruined and you know it.

 

2. So? We can pay the interest of the debt without breaking a sweat. Also, people don't know that most of our debt is money we owe ourselves lol. Not to mention you neglect something called inflation.

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ugDU2qNcyg

 

3. Yes, they struggle because of 1. the federal government allows anyone to take loans out for any degree. So if a kid is willing to put himself thousands of dollars in debt for a liberal arts degree, why would a university lower the price? 2. Americans suck at saving money and investing. I know plenty of people who blew all their money, then when they were laid off/fired they went bankrupt and blamed America. However, speaking of college you can get degrees pretty cheap (~30k) actually if you know where to shop and look. For example, you can get rid of almost all your basic classes by going to straighterline.com for around ~2k.

1. If the US wouldn't have a higher GDP despite having over 80 times as much population, the US would be amongst the poorest countries in the World, if not the poorest. Better compare GDP per capita, and there both Denmark and the US are about the same level (56K for Denmark, 59K for the US)

2. That's funny, when the Republicans are not in power they make huge waves about the debt but once they are in power they just increase spending and cut taxes left and right, ensuring the debt increases further and further. And last year, they suspended the debt ceiling to avoid hitting that, but that could only last one year and got reinstated just yesterday. Now the government is shuffling around the money to avoid hitting the ceiling, but in early fall it will be unavoidable - and good luck getting that one solved quickly after the record shutdown over the holiday season and early this year.

Yes, the debt can be repayed pretty easily - for now. but at the rate it's increasing, it will get more and more difficult, especially if there's a recession in between. And it's already the fourth-biggest item on the paylist of the US with 350 billions a year (after Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security and Defense), and growing faster than those except Medicare/Medicaid, which grows at the same speed. In a couple years it will overtake the defense budget at the current rate of growth.

The biggest problem is that if the debt gets too large, then the rating firms will downgrade the US debt, which results in higher interest rates. Once that happens then there's almost no way out anymore, as a rising debt will be needed to cover the rising interests on said debt. That's still a ways off, though, that won't happen during this or the next decade (unless something totally unforeseen happens)

3. According to you only the elites have any right for higher education? Since that's what you strongly imply with your first sentences.

Besides, the degrees could be much cheaper, but they are spending all the money on prestige objects like lazy rivers, and the amount of non-teaching staff, especially executives of all kind, spiraling out of control (I'll check if I can find the Forbes article I read a couple weeks ago, where in one state in the 80 there were 12000 faculty personnel and 1600 in administration, but now the faculty members are at 12500 and those of administration at 14000). MBA degrees are ridiculously overpriced now at over 200.000$, you practically need to become a well-paid executive right away after that of struggle forever to pay your bills.



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Replicant said:
Snoopy said:

1. Pretty sure most people don't even know where Denmark is so I think you're lying. Hell, the State I grew up in has a bigger population than Denmark four times over. How can your public sector and private sector be so strong, when we have to defend you all the time? Not to mention your GDP hasn't even hit HALF a trillion yet. One bad disaster and your country is ruined and you know it.

2. So? We can pay the interest of the debt without breaking a sweat. Also, people don't know that most of our debt is money we owe ourselves lol. Not to mention you neglect something called inflation.

3. Yes, they struggle because of 1. the federal government allows anyone to take loans out for any degree. So if a kid is willing to put himself thousands of dollars in debt for a liberal arts degree, why would a university lower the price? 2. Americans suck at saving money and investing. I know plenty of people who blew all their money, then when they were laid off/fired they went bankrupt and blamed America. However, speaking of college you can get degrees pretty cheap (~30k) actually if you know where to shop and look. For example, you can get rid of almost all your basic classes by going to straighterline.com for around ~2k.

1. You're saying that the country with a population of 325+ million people has a higher GDP than the country with a population of 5+ million people? Go figure.

2. No. I'm pretty sure most people know that. 30% of the US national debt is owned by foreign investors. You definitely don't want that to go over 50%. "lol"

3. Good job insulting your countrymen because they aren't as privileged as you. I'll take darkenergy's advice and end this pointless debate. I'm happy with the way things are in Denmark and you're happy with the way things are in the US. Wonderful.

1. There are Countries like India with over a billion people and have around 2 trillion dollars in GDP. Go figure.

2. The interest on that debt is so low we can make a profit in the long run by borrowing money. If you really are a successful self-employed entrepreneur, you will know it takes money to make money. As long as you make wise investments, you don't have to worry too much.

3. It's called tough love. If you are a yes man, you will fail in the long run. Also, I grew up kind of poor, but I didn't make excuses and worked my butt off. However, I do consider myself privileged to live in the United States. I could've been born in a third world Country like Syria, North Korea or even worse Canada.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Snoopy said:

1. Pretty sure most people don't even know where Denmark is so I think you're lying. Hell, the State I grew up in has a bigger population than Denmark four times over. How can your public sector and private sector be so strong, when we have to defend you all the time? Not to mention your GDP hasn't even hit HALF a trillion yet. One bad disaster and your country is ruined and you know it.

 

2. So? We can pay the interest of the debt without breaking a sweat. Also, people don't know that most of our debt is money we owe ourselves lol. Not to mention you neglect something called inflation.

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ugDU2qNcyg

 

3. Yes, they struggle because of 1. the federal government allows anyone to take loans out for any degree. So if a kid is willing to put himself thousands of dollars in debt for a liberal arts degree, why would a university lower the price? 2. Americans suck at saving money and investing. I know plenty of people who blew all their money, then when they were laid off/fired they went bankrupt and blamed America. However, speaking of college you can get degrees pretty cheap (~30k) actually if you know where to shop and look. For example, you can get rid of almost all your basic classes by going to straighterline.com for around ~2k.

1. If the US wouldn't have a higher GDP despite having over 80 times as much population, the US would be amongst the poorest countries in the World, if not the poorest. Better compare GDP per capita, and there both Denmark and the US are about the same level (56K for Denmark, 59K for the US)

2. That's funny, when the Republicans are not in power they make huge waves about the debt but once they are in power they just increase spending and cut taxes left and right, ensuring the debt increases further and further. And last year, they suspended the debt ceiling to avoid hitting that, but that could only last one year and got reinstated just yesterday. Now the government is shuffling around the money to avoid hitting the ceiling, but in early fall it will be unavoidable - and good luck getting that one solved quickly after the record shutdown over the holiday season and early this year.

Yes, the debt can be repayed pretty easily - for now. but at the rate it's increasing, it will get more and more difficult, especially if there's a recession in between. And it's already the fourth-biggest item on the paylist of the US with 350 billions a year (after Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security and Defense), and growing faster than those except Medicare/Medicaid, which grows at the same speed. In a couple years it will overtake the defense budget at the current rate of growth.

The biggest problem is that if the debt gets too large, then the rating firms will downgrade the US debt, which results in higher interest rates. Once that happens then there's almost no way out anymore, as a rising debt will be needed to cover the rising interests on said debt. That's still a ways off, though, that won't happen during this or the next decade (unless something totally unforeseen happens)

3. According to you only the elites have any right for higher education? Since that's what you strongly imply with your first sentences.

Besides, the degrees could be much cheaper, but they are spending all the money on prestige objects like lazy rivers, and the amount of non-teaching staff, especially executives of all kind, spiraling out of control (I'll check if I can find the Forbes article I read a couple weeks ago, where in one state in the 80 there were 12000 faculty personnel and 1600 in administration, but now the faculty members are at 12500 and those of administration at 14000). MBA degrees are ridiculously overpriced now at over 200.000$, you practically need to become a well-paid executive right away after that of struggle forever to pay your bills.

1. Yet there are Countries like China and India with a bigger population and yet we have more money.

2. Eventually, we will have to drop social programs, tell other Countries they need to take care of themselves and end financial aid. It's as if social programs fail in the long run...

3. You assume wrong. Private banks will make loans, but for degrees that are actually worth it if the federal government just butt out. They will deny your loan for a liberal arts degree (unless it is really cheap) but approve your Engineering degree. And again, Universities have NO INCENTIVE to lower price because kids out of high school with no concept of money are willing to put themselves hundreds of thousand dollars in debt for joke degrees. If someone was willing to pay you a lot of money for a product, why would you lower the price?

Also, you don't need a college degree to be successful. There are other forms of education such as Coding boot camps, trade school, and even youtube videos.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 06 March 2019

Snoopy said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

1. If the US wouldn't have a higher GDP despite having over 80 times as much population, the US would be amongst the poorest countries in the World, if not the poorest. Better compare GDP per capita, and there both Denmark and the US are about the same level (56K for Denmark, 59K for the US)

2. That's funny, when the Republicans are not in power they make huge waves about the debt but once they are in power they just increase spending and cut taxes left and right, ensuring the debt increases further and further. And last year, they suspended the debt ceiling to avoid hitting that, but that could only last one year and got reinstated just yesterday. Now the government is shuffling around the money to avoid hitting the ceiling, but in early fall it will be unavoidable - and good luck getting that one solved quickly after the record shutdown over the holiday season and early this year.

Yes, the debt can be repayed pretty easily - for now. but at the rate it's increasing, it will get more and more difficult, especially if there's a recession in between. And it's already the fourth-biggest item on the paylist of the US with 350 billions a year (after Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security and Defense), and growing faster than those except Medicare/Medicaid, which grows at the same speed. In a couple years it will overtake the defense budget at the current rate of growth.

The biggest problem is that if the debt gets too large, then the rating firms will downgrade the US debt, which results in higher interest rates. Once that happens then there's almost no way out anymore, as a rising debt will be needed to cover the rising interests on said debt. That's still a ways off, though, that won't happen during this or the next decade (unless something totally unforeseen happens)

3. According to you only the elites have any right for higher education? Since that's what you strongly imply with your first sentences.

Besides, the degrees could be much cheaper, but they are spending all the money on prestige objects like lazy rivers, and the amount of non-teaching staff, especially executives of all kind, spiraling out of control (I'll check if I can find the Forbes article I read a couple weeks ago, where in one state in the 80 there were 12000 faculty personnel and 1600 in administration, but now the faculty members are at 12500 and those of administration at 14000). MBA degrees are ridiculously overpriced now at over 200.000$, you practically need to become a well-paid executive right away after that of struggle forever to pay your bills.

1. Yet there are Countries like China and India with a bigger population and yet we have more money.

2. Eventually, we will have to drop social programs, tell other Countries they need to take care of themselves and end financial aid. It's as if social programs fail in the long run...

3. You assume wrong. Private banks will make loans, but for degrees that are actually worth it if the federal government just butt out. They will deny your loan for a liberal arts degree (unless it is really cheap) but approve your Engineering degree. And again, Universities have NO INCENTIVE to lower price because kids out of high school with no concept of money are willing to put themselves hundreds of thousand dollars in debt for joke degrees. If someone was willing to pay you a lot of money for a product, why would you lower the price?

Also, you don't need a college degree to be successful. There are other forms of education such as Coding boot camps, trade school, and even youtube videos.

1. Still, since they are still a developing country. But China is growing much faster than the US and will overtake them soon. US Has a total GDP of 20 Trillion while China is at 15 Trillion and growing at twice the speed of the US. 20 years ago the US economy was still 3 times bigger than the Chinese economy, now that's down to 25%

2. Or just cut the military budget and get some taxes from corporations and the super-rich, as they are paying next to nothing now, and certainly much, much less than they should, even some of them acknowledged that, and that was before Trumps tax cuts.

Also, drop financial aid? You do know that the US already pay much less then every other developed country as part of their GDP, and that financial aid generally pays out in the long run as these countries tend to like to deal with you in very generous terms.

3. Because it's unsustainable on the long run. At some point even the banks won't be willing to lend that much money without guarantees anymore - but what guarantee do you have to make it to your diploma and get a well-paid job that you can present to the bank beforehand? Especially in times of crisis and/or recession there's nothing you can give them unless they have rich parents who can guarantee to pay it back or poorer families who will have to gamble on their house and/or car as guarantees to the bank - at which point many poorer people will not be going to get higher degrees as the risks get too high. This then means less income for the Universities, thus jacking up the prices even higher to compensate, resulting finally in just the rich being able to afford an University degree. That's also why I said you imply a degree only for the rich, as that would be the result in the long run if nothing changes.

Youtube videos? Tell that to headhunters and employers who only look at your diplomas.



SpokenTruth said:
Primary choice: Bernie Sanders.
Secondary choice: Tulsi Gabbard.

Would love to see them as candidate and running mate....either iteration.

By the way, don't bother arguing with Snoopy. To him, his opinions will always 'trump' your facts.

Yeah, I answered to him, but I'm gonna leave it at that

Bernie/Tulsi would be the perfect team in my opinion. Third choice would be Kamala Harris for me.

By the way, anybody of you guys check the polls? Wikipedia has them in a nice list:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

And for the most recent one: https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Political-Intelligence-3.5.19.pdf (.pdf file)

Joe Biden is in front, but I don't doubt that this won't last very long anymore. He's more the establishment candidate and thus the more conservative choice, but I don't think he's gonna make it. He got the name recognition from the Obama era, but that's gonna fade later down the road I think.

Tulsi Gabbard is sadly very low in the polls right now, I really hope she can improve.

I expect John Delaney to drop out of the race soon considering his numbers, he's almost always dead last in the polls



Bernie I suppose.