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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why is the Switch still not getting big games from 3rd parties? October edition

spurgeonryan said:
mZuzek said:
Because it can't run them.

That is a nice excuse maybe used during the N64 days, but we used to see devs bring ports to GB and Wii. Hell, even the N64 got or found a way to get some.

 

The Switch is a money printer and has no reason more games are not coming.

We’ll just have to see in 2019 if third parties, especially Japanese ones, will finally pull the trigger and develop more original content than just ports.

Though I hope to see Soul Calibur VI release on Switch in the future. SCII shows that a multiplat third party game on a Nintendo console can do well, albeit it has the advantage of having Link as a guest. I would like to see someone like Lyn, Lucina, or Shulk guest star in SCVI.

Last edited by Kai_Mao - on 19 October 2018

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potato_hamster said:
Kai_Mao said:

It’s also nice that PS4’s userbase is up 4:1 on Switch.

Wii U total sales:  ~14 million

Retail sales:
Mario Kart 8:  7.7M
New Super Mario Bros U: 5.6M
Super Smash Bros. U: 5.1M
Splatoon: 4.7M

Switch total sales: ~20M

Retail Sales:
Mario Odyssey: 10M
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 9.2M
Breath of the Wild: 7.8M
Spatoon 2: 6M

Using the userbase as an excuse why games aren't selling as well on a Nintendo platform as they would on others is complete nonsense. Nintendo has continuously demonstrated that you don't need a huge userbase to have huge sales.

It's not excuse it totally valid and logical point, how much those games will sell when Switch has install base for 40-50m, or 80m like PS4? Comparing sales of games on one platform that has 4x bigger install base than other currently, dont make sense, in that case attach rate makes much more sense.



Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:

Wii U total sales:  ~14 million

Retail sales:
Mario Kart 8:  7.7M
New Super Mario Bros U: 5.6M
Super Smash Bros. U: 5.1M
Splatoon: 4.7M

Switch total sales: ~20M

Retail Sales:
Mario Odyssey: 10M
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 9.2M
Breath of the Wild: 7.8M
Spatoon 2: 6M

Using the userbase as an excuse why games aren't selling as well on a Nintendo platform as they would on others is complete nonsense. Nintendo has continuously demonstrated that you don't need a huge userbase to have huge sales.

It's not excuse it totally valid and logical point, how much those games will sell when Switch has install base for 40-50m, or 80m like PS4? Comparing sales of games on one platform that has 4x bigger install base than other currently, dont make sense, in that case attach rate makes much more sense.

 If that''s the case, why are GTA V sales higher on PS4 than they are on PS3, even though it's been out for PS3 longer and PS3 still has a larger install base? Or why did Last of us remastered sell more than the original PS3 version despite the much lower install base on release? Or why did Super Mario Galaxy 2 sell 4 million copies less than Super Mario Galaxy even though the install base for Wii was higher for the SMG2 release?

Ohh right, it's because install base only limits the maximum amount of games you can sell, not the ability to sell a high number. Nintendo can not sell another Switch for an entire year and still have millions and millions of Super Mario Odyssey sales to existing Switch owners who have not yet bought it.



bubblegamer said:
Most developers don't have the extra time to downgrade their games just so the switch can handle them.

True, which is why that work is often given to another developer.

But even then, the sales of major 3rd party games haven't been great on Switch. There is definitely a possibility making a profit on Switch, but still not enough motivation to work on Switch.



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Because they can't get many of the third party multiplatform titles due to a power differential.



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potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:

It's not excuse it totally valid and logical point, how much those games will sell when Switch has install base for 40-50m, or 80m like PS4? Comparing sales of games on one platform that has 4x bigger install base than other currently, dont make sense, in that case attach rate makes much more sense.

 If that''s the case, why are GTA V sales higher on PS4 than they are on PS3, even though it's been out for PS3 longer and PS3 still has a larger install base? Or why did Last of us remastered sell more than the original PS3 version despite the much lower install base on release? Or why did Super Mario Galaxy 2 sell 4 million copies less than Super Mario Galaxy even though the install base for Wii was higher for the SMG2 release?

Ohh right, it's because install base only limits the maximum amount of games you can sell, not the ability to sell a high number. Nintendo can not sell another Switch for an entire year and still have millions and millions of Super Mario Odyssey sales to existing Switch owners who have not yet bought it.

Actually VGC numbers show that PS3 version of GTAV sold more than PS4 version of game with similar install base. But in any case you missing simple point, how much GTAV on PS4 sold when PS4 install base was 20m, 40m and now when 80m, or how much TLoU Remaster sold on PS4 when install base was 20m, 40m or now when install base is 80m, 100m? Or in Nintendo case, how much Zelda BotW, MK8D, Odyssey, Splatoon2...will sell when Switch has install base of 40m, 60m or 80m same like PS4 curently, instead of current 20m? Offcourse they will have much stronger sales than they having now.

Thats why is very wrong to compare sales of games on different platforms where one has 4x bigger install base than other. For instance do you think its fair to compare sales of games on 3DS and Vita? Of Course not, 3DS has around 4x bigger install base and of course that will have much better software sales in any case. In those cases attach rate makes much more sense.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 21 October 2018

The_Liquid_Laser said:
Dante9 said:

That's a weird statement. Do you think that the PS4 is some kind of an FPS haven? Sure, it gets all the big FPS titles but those are a miniscule portion of all the games. The PS library is actually the most diverse and expansive of the three, so if you can't find anything of interest in there, it's just a bias that you have. And that's fine, I'm all about single platform gaming as well, but let's not distort things here. That's like me saying Nintendo has nothing for me, because it seems to be mostly FPS games like Doom and whatnot :D

I can see why you misunderstand my point, so let me try to say it more clearly.

The focus of the PS4 library is different from the Switch library.  One genre where you can see this is FPS.  The PS4 has a much better selection of FPS games than the Switch does.  For a person who has FPS as their favorite genre, they are going to look at Switch and say, "it's got no games".  I mean it technically does have some FPS games, but PS4 (and XB1) have a much better selection.  On the other hand a person who really likes 2D platformers might look at the PS4 and say "it's got no games".  I mean I'm sure it probably does have some, but Switch is a better console for 2D platformers.

So, it all comes down to taste.  The OP doesn't consider Civ 6 a big release, because he will probably never play Civ 6.  I personally don't care about CoD, because I don't like FPS, but I really love great turn based strategy games like Civ.  The whole topic of this thread is subjective anyway.

If we were talking about objective things like sales numbers (hardware or software), then we wouldn't be talking about third parties only.  Obviously Nintendo has big first party games coming out this holiday that the other consoles don't have.  But since we are just talking about "big third party" games, then it's subjective.  CoD isn't big to me, but Civ 6 is.  The OP sees things differently and that is ok too, as long as we all see that it's subjective.

Yes, this is it. This site is heavily console centric, but gaming also happens on PC and mobile. As a console gamer Civilization might be no name, but Civ V actually sold 8 million copies and Civ VI is well on it's way to do similar numbers. So by all means Civilization is a big game and it's release on Switch a big deal. But it might be under the radar of mostly console gamers like the ones on this site.



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I think there are two primary reasons:

1. Power limitations: The Switch is in essence a mobile device and it is fairly powerful for such a device, but it does not have the same power as its contemporary stationary counterparts (which I think should be obvious given that one device is a mobile tablet and the others are desktop PC-like) . Naturally, games that really push the PS4 and Xbox One are likely not going to run in a playable manner on the Switch.

2. Use of cartridges: Judging by a lot of insider comments on ResetEra. It seems the use of cartridges is a far larger obstacle than the power of the system. Apparently, the 8 GB cart packages cost the same BD packages from Sony/Nintendo. The 16 GB and 32 GB cost more (though we are seeing the 16 GB carts being used more now, so maybe the prices have gone down). This would mean that the publisher would have to either increase the price of the game on Switch or work with thinner margins. The cost issue with cartridges is not really new (just look at how much support it cost the N64), but on a portable device like Switch, it really is the only practical solution for physical distribution. If Nintendo wants better support then they have to either A) use the larger carts on some of their own high-volume first-party titles (like Smash) in order to bring down the cost B) subsidize the larger carts C) work with developers that have larger games on case by case basis for subsidization.



Miyamotoo said:
potato_hamster said:

 If that''s the case, why are GTA V sales higher on PS4 than they are on PS3, even though it's been out for PS3 longer and PS3 still has a larger install base? Or why did Last of us remastered sell more than the original PS3 version despite the much lower install base on release? Or why did Super Mario Galaxy 2 sell 4 million copies less than Super Mario Galaxy even though the install base for Wii was higher for the SMG2 release?

Ohh right, it's because install base only limits the maximum amount of games you can sell, not the ability to sell a high number. Nintendo can not sell another Switch for an entire year and still have millions and millions of Super Mario Odyssey sales to existing Switch owners who have not yet bought it.

Actually VGC numbers show that PS3 version of GTAV sold more than PS4 version of game with similar install base. But in any case you missing simple point, how much GTAV on PS4 sold when PS4 install base was 20m, 40m and now when 80m, or how much TLoU Remaster sold on PS4 when install base was 20m, 40m or now when install base is 80m, 100m? Or in Nintendo case, how much Zelda BotW, MK8D, Odyssey, Splatoon2...will sell when Switch has install base of 40m, 60m or 80m same like PS4 curently, instead of current 20m? Offcourse they will have much stronger sales than they having now.

Thats why is very wrong to compare sales of games on different platforms where one has 4x bigger install base than other. For instance do you think its fair to compare sales of games on 3DS and Vita? Of Course not, 3DS has around 4x bigger install base and of course that will have much better software sales in any case. In those cases attach rate makes much more sense.

VGC numbers don't account for digital sales. GTAV sold 90 million copies as of Feb 8th of this year. VGChartz only accounts for 62 million. PS4 sales are higher than PS3 if you count digital sales.

I'm not missing a simple point. I'm disputing an illogical one. multi-platform game sales on an individual platform are of often times not indicative at all of the proportion of game sales amongst each platform. For example there are plenty of mult-platform games that have higher, equal, or near equal sales on Xbox One vs PS4 sales despite the fact that PS4 has sold over twice as many units vs Xbox One.

Secondly, for most games, the vast majority (over 80%) of a games sales are within the first six months to a year of release, and doesn't increase in any type of linear fashion. Most games do not have the "legs" where sales in year 2, or year 3 or year 4 after release are anywhere near the sales even in the first month of release. Let me put you a great example to illustrate this point: Killzone: Shadow Fall. As of Jan 29th, 2015 (3 months after release) sales topped 2.1 million - making it the most, if not one of the most popular release titles for the PS4. It has recieved no sequels, or experienced anything else that would prevent Killzone fans from obtaining copies. Yet, nearly six years later, total sales are less than 4  million copies. By your logic, shouldn't it have sold at least 10 million copies by now since it sold 2 million copies with just 10 million users to sell to, and now there are another 70 or so million potential Killzone purchasers out there that can now buy the game?

Also, by your logic, shouldn't EA expect Madden sales to increase every single year into a consoles's life, since you know, higher platform sales? Yet, on PS4, Madden 16's sales are higher than Madden 17's sales, which are higher than Madden 18's sales. Madden 19 sales look be falling short of Madden 18's sales at this point as well.

And no all of those Nintendo games wont have "much stronger sales" when the Switch reaches, say, 40 million in total sales. Sure, Mario Odyssey probably will (especially if the bundle it), but Breath of the Wild? Probably not. Let's not forget Twillight Princess was a launch title for the Wii, and Breath of the Wild's sales have already exceeded it despite it having an install base of 100 million units to sell to. Twillight Princess hit 4.5 million in sales 18 months into the wii's life, and only sold another 2.5 million in the years following.



I think it's getting enough 3rd party support to hold up steady (but not exciting) output from Nintendo. Between 1st party releases and what's on offer from 3rd parties, I'm already having to pick and choose -- which is something I haven't done on a Nintendo system in a long time.



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